Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #54

[indicolite22]

Yesterday MM filed two motions in Lori's case in Madison County: 1) motion for transfer and joinder with her case in Fremont County and 2) motion for venue change

COMES NOW DEFENDANT, by and through her Attorney of Record, Mark L. Means of MEANS-LAW and moves this Court pursuant to Idaho Criminal Rule 21 for Transfer for Trial of the above case to District Court of the Seventh Judicial District of the State of Idaho, in and for the County of Fremont. Specifically, to be transferred and ultimately Joined with Idaho Case Number: CR22-20-0838.

MOTION FOR TRANSFER FOR TRIAL RE: Idaho Criminal Rule 21 (b)

COMES NOW THE DEFENDANT LORI NORENE VALLOW (AKA LORI NORENE DAYBELL) by and through her Attorney of Record, Mark L. Means of Means-Law and hereby moves this Court for an order transferring the case (venue) because fair and impartial jury trial cannot be had in Fremont County, State of Idaho.

This Motion is filed in the alternative to the Motion for Transfer for Trial in regards to Idaho Criminal Rule 21 (b).

MOTION FOR TRANSFER FOR TRIAL RE: Idaho Criminal Rule 21(a)

 

[Satchie]

I'm not Mormon, but I doubt that "multiple wives are a requirement for exaltation" and "another wife for him was necessary".

IDK, I can see the attitude that TD was too grounded to join in with his fantasies of being a prophet (he said he needed to 'move on'), and yet she was the mother of 'his' children. Divorce is very mundane and worldy and modern-day, no one in the Bible got divorced.

A relious scholar suggests,
"Chad Daybell’s apocalyptic ideas are born of this nineteenth-century visionary culture. In the early twentieth century, Church leaders began to discourage a preoccupation with the end times, as well as the circulation of prophecies that originated with lay members of the faith...The result of this effort forced prophecy enthusiasts to retreat to their own subculture"
The Daybells and Latter-day Saint Apocalypticism | The University of Chicago Divinity School

This comment is not scientific, obviously, cannot be proven. I find it interesting, someone taking a big-picture view of the context surrounding these horrible events. I appreciate not everyone is interested in this approach.

 

[indicolite22]

The daughter she had raised and known for 16 years, mind.

I'm also speculating/assuming that a large portion of Lori's sexual attraction to dumpy Chad (don't we know for a fact that she told MG they were having sex 2x/day?) was ego gratification and extra excitement that she was a Goddess getting it on with the Prophet (ew... I grossed myself typing that out, but it had to be said, because who otherwise would be that warm for Chad's form?).

IIRC it was 3x/day. Lori was telling MG what would happen once she and Chad were together. It looks like Lori worked on Chad's makeover as well.

 

[Satchie]

The daughter she had raised and known for 16 years, mind.

I'm also speculating/assuming that a large portion of Lori's sexual attraction to dumpy Chad (don't we know for a fact that she told MG they were having sex 2x/day?) was ego gratification and extra excitement that she was a Goddess getting it on with the Prophet (ew... I grossed myself typing that out, but it had to be said, because who otherwise would be that warm for Chad's form?).

I agree that, if he made her feel like a goddess, it didn't matter what he looked like...but she did give him a makeover anyway. This dynamic isn't unique to LV.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I agree that, if he made her feel like a goddess, it didn't matter what he looked like...but she did give him a makeover anyway. This dynamic isn't unique to LV.

Maybe LV was embarrassed by how dumpy Chad looked when they were together, thus makeover. I thought we learned from the WTAF input that Lori was ashamed of Tylee's weight and hectored her about being slimmer; thus I would assume she has a certain visual standard for people she associates with, that she mentally requires them to maintain. Some super body conscious people are just that snobby about association with individuals carrying about some extra avoirdupois.

 

[887sMtreme]

I have wondered if she (TD) kept a journal, many LDS women do...

If she did, I imagine she’d have given it up when she decided she was a goddess. On the other hand, maybe she’d have then thought she was creating scripture. Ugh.

 

[887sMtreme]

From one survivor to another, DONT LETS HAVE THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!
And thanks for the kind word.

My experience was relatively benign compared with yours. But yes, we have a deal! <pinky swear>

 

[887sMtreme]

snipped for focus

Wouldn't surprise me if those two wackos changed Idaho for Hawaii, because they considered themselves worthy of a nicer portal (you know, just the scenery and weather better for LV goddess, Rexburg was not her kind of place)

I think you’ve nailed the rationale.

 

[FullMinder]

What to glean from the blank spaces in Alex's timeline in the deaths of JJ and Tylee?

On September 8th, after the trip to Yellowstone:

• Alex's phone returned to Rexburg, ID at 8:37pm
• He/his phone was at Lori's apartment #175 until 9:35pm
• From 9:43-9:53pm, he's at the Maverick on Main Street, Rexburg, ID (4 minute drive/20 minute walk from #175)
• 9:54-10:43pm? (49 minutes)
• From 10:44-11:15pm, he's at #175 again
• 11:16-11:43pm? (27 minutes)
• At 11:44pm, he's at his apartment #107

On September 9th:

• 12am-12:44am at #107
• 12:45-2:41am? (1 hour 56 minutes)
• 2:42-3:37am at #175, parking lot *See court testimony underlined below.
• 3:38-4:36am? (58 minutes)
• 4:37-8:59am at #107
• 9:21-11:39am at Chad's, east of the barn (10-20 minute drive from #107)
• 11:52-12:02pm at Del Taco
• Rest of the day at #107

On September 22nd:

• Alex was watching JJ elsewhere while MG, DW, and Lori were podcasting in #175 from 9pm-midnight.
• Alex brought JJ back to #175 sometime in the middle of that recording session (according to MG's court testimony).
• JJ was sleeping on Alex's shoulder and he put JJ to bed. He leaves.

On September 23rd:

• Between 8am-9am, DW and MG and Lori meet in the kitchen. This is when DW asks where JJ is and Lori gives that story of JJ crawling up the cabinets and tells DW that Alex had to pick him up again because of this behavior.
• 9:30am MG and DW leave Rexburg.
• 9:55am-10:12am Alex is in Chad's backyard, near the pond where JJ was buried.

From Detective Stubb's testimony on 8/3/20 regarding Alex's pings:
Exhibit 18 = Aerial of apartment complex
Exhibit 17 = Aerial of Chad's property

Exhibit 18 - Pin no.9, 9/6/19 at 2:56am. "Over in this area here."
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.3 in parking lot, 9/9/19 at 2:42am.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.2 in parking lot, 9/9/19 at 2:42am. *Almost the same location as no.3.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.1 9/9/19 at 3:37am. "Same location as this triangle here."
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.5, 9/9/19, 9:21am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.4, 9/9/19, 10:57am.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.8, 9/14/19, 1:21am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.7, no date, 9:56am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.6, 9/23/19, 10:02am. *Same general area as no.7.

Regarding JJ's death:

There is evidence of JJ being tightly bound with duct tape, or over-restrained, in the same sense that the word "overkill" is used in other cases. Someone wrapped duct tape around his wrists first, and then around his hands over and over again, and then around his arms from elbow to elbow in several tight layers. Someone also put duct tape over his mouth and then covered his head with a white plastic garbage bag, and then wrapped that in duct tape in several layers from chin to forehead.

Until we know what has actually happened, we could argue that anything could have happened. But if you're trying to identify the truth about who committed a crime and what that crime was, you're going to take the facts and the evidence and apply them to the various theories that are out there. You could say for instance that JJ was poisoned or drugged, but the one thing we know for sure is that there is no evidence of that in the official testimony or documents.

We can't rule other theories out all together, for instance, poison or drugging. But you can give it lower priority. There is duct tape and a white bag around a child's face, covering the mouth, nose, and eyes.

That is evidence of JJ being bound and suffocated.

The question to answer is: who did it and when?

JJ's death seems to have been committed by a woman who was vindictive and resentful and who ultimately lost all self-control. Alex was a big guy and didn't need to restrain JJ with layers of duct tape to gain control of him. Kids fight back violently when they're being suffocated, research shows. One of the Cox siblings needed duct tape to restrain JJ in order to suffocate him, and one did not. I eliminate Alex from having a hand in JJ's death based on this method used. And I also eliminate him based on timing.

From the affidavit of probable cause, regarding September 22nd and 23rd:
September 9th is the only time Alex was at Lori's between midnight and 6am. So on the 22nd, if JJ was truly sleeping on Alex's shoulder (and he was not covered in duct tape and a garbage bag), and Alex didn't return to Lori's that night, then Lori killed JJ with duct tape and a garbage bag.

The only other alternative scenario:
Alex could have picked JJ up after 6am but before 8am (when MG and DW woke up) and murdered him on the morning of the 23rd. Then drove to Chad's to bury him.


Idaho TITLE 18 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 40 HOMICIDE
18-4003.
DEGREES OF MURDER.
(a) All murder which is perpetrated by means of poison, or lying in wait, or torture, when torture is inflicted with the intent to cause suffering, to execute vengeance, to extort something from the victim, or to satisfy some sadistic inclination, or which is perpetrated by any kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing is murder of the first degree.
(b) Any murder of any peace officer, executive officer, officer of the court, fireman, judicial officer or prosecuting attorney who was acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty, and was known or should have been known by the perpetrator of the murder to be an officer so acting, shall be murder of the first degree.
(c) Any murder committed by a person under a sentence for murder of the first or second degree, including such persons on parole or probation from such sentence, shall be murder of the first degree.
(d) Any murder committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, aggravated battery on a child under twelve (12) years of age, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem, or an act of terrorism, as defined in section 18-8102, Idaho Code, or the use of a weapon of mass destruction, biological weapon or chemical weapon, is murder of the first degree.
(e) Any murder committed by a person incarcerated in a penal institution upon a person employed by the penal institution, another inmate of the penal institution or a visitor to the penal institution shall be murder of the first degree.
(f) Any murder committed by a person while escaping or attempting to escape from a penal institution is murder of the first degree.
(g) All other kinds of murder are of the second degree.

 

[Love Never Fails]

“Recovery” from two strokes is not the same thing as “I’m the man I was before them!” Not even close. But thank you for the kind thoughts.
Folks, keep your BP down, follow the rules if you have diabetes, exercise and take that daily aspirin if your Dr says to do so. Do as I say, not as I did.

I know strokes take a terrible toll. Both my sisters and my brother had strokes. One sister and one brother lived for a couple years afterward but their quality of life wasn’t the same and they were, of course, afraid. My other sister didn’t make it past ten days. A severe blow to me. But I have seen first hand what it does. My nephew had a severe stroke at an early age and will never be the same physically. People do not understand how common strokes are. Your words to them are very wise. I pray you live a very long, healthy life and will be stroke free from here on. Many people do. Glad you are here!

 

[Dontknow?]

• 9:55am-10:12am Alex is in Chad's backyard, near the pond where JJ was buried.

@FullMinder thank you.

17 minutes doesn't seem long enough to bury JJ unless CD had a hole already dug? Or CD buried JJ which could be the real fact.

I can't think of any reason if one of my children died and disappeared due to the "crazy uncle" that I'd hide that fact and move on. Just suck it up? Not one. What in the world could they say to make it seem reasonable to marry in HI and enjoy the beach, resorts, dining out etc??? They can't.

 

[Nikynoo]

What to glean from the blank spaces in Alex's timeline in the deaths of JJ and Tylee?

On September 8th, after the trip to Yellowstone:

• Alex's phone returned to Rexburg, ID at 8:37pm
• He/his phone was at Lori's apartment #175 until 9:35pm
• From 9:43-9:53pm, he's at the Maverick on Main Street, Rexburg, ID (4 minute drive/20 minute walk from #175)
• 9:54-10:43pm? (49 minutes)
• From 10:44-11:15pm, he's at #175 again
• 11:16-11:43pm? (27 minutes)
• At 11:44pm, he's at his apartment #107

On September 9th:

• 12am-12:44am at #107
• 12:45-2:41am? (1 hour 56 minutes)
• 2:42-3:37am at #175, parking lot *See court testimony underlined below.
• 3:38-4:36am? (58 minutes)
• 4:37-8:59am at #107
• 9:21-11:39am at Chad's, east of the barn (10-20 minute drive from #107)
• 11:52-12:02pm at Del Taco
• Rest of the day at #107

On September 22nd:

• Alex was watching JJ elsewhere while MG, DW, and Lori were podcasting in #175 from 9pm-midnight.
• Alex brought JJ back to #175 sometime in the middle of that recording session (according to MG's court testimony).
• JJ was sleeping on Alex's shoulder and he put JJ to bed. He leaves.

On September 23rd:

• Between 8am-9am, DW and MG and Lori meet in the kitchen. This is when DW asks where JJ is and Lori gives that story of JJ crawling up the cabinets and tells DW that Alex had to pick him up again because of this behavior.
• 9:30am MG and DW leave Rexburg.
• 9:55am-10:12am Alex is in Chad's backyard, near the pond where JJ was buried.

From Detective Stubb's testimony on 8/3/20 regarding Alex's pings:
Exhibit 18 = Aerial of apartment complex
Exhibit 17 = Aerial of Chad's property

Exhibit 18 - Pin no.9, 9/6/19 at 2:56am. "Over in this area here."
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.3 in parking lot, 9/9/19 at 2:42am.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.2 in parking lot, 9/9/19 at 2:42am. *Almost the same location as no.3.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.1 9/9/19 at 3:37am. "Same location as this triangle here."
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.5, 9/9/19, 9:21am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.4, 9/9/19, 10:57am.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.8, 9/14/19, 1:21am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.7, no date, 9:56am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.6, 9/23/19, 10:02am. *Same general area as no.7.

Regarding JJ's death:

There is evidence of JJ being tightly bound with duct tape, or over-restrained, in the same sense that the word "overkill" is used in other cases. Someone wrapped duct tape around his wrists first, and then around his hands over and over again, and then around his arms from elbow to elbow in several tight layers. Someone also put duct tape over his mouth and then covered his head with a white plastic garbage bag, and then wrapped that in duct tape in several layers from chin to forehead.

Until we know what has actually happened, we could argue that anything could have happened. But if you're trying to identify the truth about who committed a crime and what that crime was, you're going to take the facts and the evidence and apply them to the various theories that are out there. You could say for instance that JJ was poisoned or drugged, but the one thing we know for sure is that there is no evidence of that in the official testimony or documents.

We can't rule other theories out all together, for instance, poison or drugging. But you can give it lower priority. There is duct tape and a white bag around a child's face, covering the mouth, nose, and eyes.

That is evidence of JJ being bound and suffocated.

The question to answer is: who did it and when?

JJ's death seems to have been committed by a woman who was vindictive and resentful and who ultimately lost all self-control. Alex was a big guy and didn't need to restrain JJ with layers of duct tape to gain control of him. Kids fight back violently when they're being suffocated, research shows. One of the Cox siblings needed duct tape to restrain JJ in order to suffocate him, and one did not. I eliminate Alex from having a hand in JJ's death based on this method used. And I also eliminate him based on timing.

From the affidavit of probable cause, regarding September 22nd and 23rd:
September 9th is the only time Alex was at Lori's between midnight and 6am. So on the 22nd, if JJ was truly sleeping on Alex's shoulder (and he was not covered in duct tape and a garbage bag), and Alex didn't return to Lori's that night, then Lori killed JJ with duct tape and a garbage bag.

The only other alternative scenario:
Alex could have picked JJ up after 6am but before 8am (when MG and DW woke up) and murdered him on the morning of the 23rd. Then drove to Chad's to bury him.


Idaho TITLE 18 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 40 HOMICIDE
18-4003.
DEGREES OF MURDER.
(a) All murder which is perpetrated by means of poison, or lying in wait, or torture, when torture is inflicted with the intent to cause suffering, to execute vengeance, to extort something from the victim, or to satisfy some sadistic inclination, or which is perpetrated by any kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing is murder of the first degree.
(b) Any murder of any peace officer, executive officer, officer of the court, fireman, judicial officer or prosecuting attorney who was acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty, and was known or should have been known by the perpetrator of the murder to be an officer so acting, shall be murder of the first degree.
(c) Any murder committed by a person under a sentence for murder of the first or second degree, including such persons on parole or probation from such sentence, shall be murder of the first degree.
(d) Any murder committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, aggravated battery on a child under twelve (12) years of age, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem, or an act of terrorism, as defined in section 18-8102, Idaho Code, or the use of a weapon of mass destruction, biological weapon or chemical weapon, is murder of the first degree.
(e) Any murder committed by a person incarcerated in a penal institution upon a person employed by the penal institution, another inmate of the penal institution or a visitor to the penal institution shall be murder of the first degree.
(f) Any murder committed by a person while escaping or attempting to escape from a penal institution is murder of the first degree.
(g) All other kinds of murder are of the second degree.

This is excellent, thank you! Based on the evidence released so far, I do not think AlC murdered the children. Clearing up after Lori, yes, murder, no.

 

[acutename]

What to glean from the blank spaces in Alex's timeline in the deaths of JJ and Tylee?

On September 8th, after the trip to Yellowstone:

• Alex's phone returned to Rexburg, ID at 8:37pm
• He/his phone was at Lori's apartment #175 until 9:35pm
• From 9:43-9:53pm, he's at the Maverick on Main Street, Rexburg, ID (4 minute drive/20 minute walk from #175)
• 9:54-10:43pm? (49 minutes)
• From 10:44-11:15pm, he's at #175 again
• 11:16-11:43pm? (27 minutes)
• At 11:44pm, he's at his apartment #107

On September 9th:

• 12am-12:44am at #107
• 12:45-2:41am? (1 hour 56 minutes)
• 2:42-3:37am at #175, parking lot *See court testimony underlined below.
• 3:38-4:36am? (58 minutes)
• 4:37-8:59am at #107
• 9:21-11:39am at Chad's, east of the barn (10-20 minute drive from #107)
• 11:52-12:02pm at Del Taco
• Rest of the day at #107

On September 22nd:

• Alex was watching JJ elsewhere while MG, DW, and Lori were podcasting in #175 from 9pm-midnight.
• Alex brought JJ back to #175 sometime in the middle of that recording session (according to MG's court testimony).
• JJ was sleeping on Alex's shoulder and he put JJ to bed. He leaves.

On September 23rd:

• Between 8am-9am, DW and MG and Lori meet in the kitchen. This is when DW asks where JJ is and Lori gives that story of JJ crawling up the cabinets and tells DW that Alex had to pick him up again because of this behavior.
• 9:30am MG and DW leave Rexburg.
• 9:55am-10:12am Alex is in Chad's backyard, near the pond where JJ was buried.

From Detective Stubb's testimony on 8/3/20 regarding Alex's pings:
Exhibit 18 = Aerial of apartment complex
Exhibit 17 = Aerial of Chad's property

Exhibit 18 - Pin no.9, 9/6/19 at 2:56am. "Over in this area here."
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.3 in parking lot, 9/9/19 at 2:42am.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.2 in parking lot, 9/9/19 at 2:42am. *Almost the same location as no.3.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.1 9/9/19 at 3:37am. "Same location as this triangle here."
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.5, 9/9/19, 9:21am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.4, 9/9/19, 10:57am.
Exhibit 18 - Pin no.8, 9/14/19, 1:21am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.7, no date, 9:56am.
Exhibit 17 - Pin no.6, 9/23/19, 10:02am. *Same general area as no.7.

Regarding JJ's death:

There is evidence of JJ being tightly bound with duct tape, or over-restrained, in the same sense that the word "overkill" is used in other cases. Someone wrapped duct tape around his wrists first, and then around his hands over and over again, and then around his arms from elbow to elbow in several tight layers. Someone also put duct tape over his mouth and then covered his head with a white plastic garbage bag, and then wrapped that in duct tape in several layers from chin to forehead.

Until we know what has actually happened, we could argue that anything could have happened. But if you're trying to identify the truth about who committed a crime and what that crime was, you're going to take the facts and the evidence and apply them to the various theories that are out there. You could say for instance that JJ was poisoned or drugged, but the one thing we know for sure is that there is no evidence of that in the official testimony or documents.

We can't rule other theories out all together, for instance, poison or drugging. But you can give it lower priority. There is duct tape and a white bag around a child's face, covering the mouth, nose, and eyes.

That is evidence of JJ being bound and suffocated.

The question to answer is: who did it and when?

JJ's death seems to have been committed by a woman who was vindictive and resentful and who ultimately lost all self-control. Alex was a big guy and didn't need to restrain JJ with layers of duct tape to gain control of him. Kids fight back violently when they're being suffocated, research shows. One of the Cox siblings needed duct tape to restrain JJ in order to suffocate him, and one did not. I eliminate Alex from having a hand in JJ's death based on this method used. And I also eliminate him based on timing.

From the affidavit of probable cause, regarding September 22nd and 23rd:
September 9th is the only time Alex was at Lori's between midnight and 6am. So on the 22nd, if JJ was truly sleeping on Alex's shoulder (and he was not covered in duct tape and a garbage bag), and Alex didn't return to Lori's that night, then Lori killed JJ with duct tape and a garbage bag.

The only other alternative scenario:
Alex could have picked JJ up after 6am but before 8am (when MG and DW woke up) and murdered him on the morning of the 23rd. Then drove to Chad's to bury him.


Idaho TITLE 18 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 40 HOMICIDE
18-4003.
DEGREES OF MURDER.
(a) All murder which is perpetrated by means of poison, or lying in wait, or torture, when torture is inflicted with the intent to cause suffering, to execute vengeance, to extort something from the victim, or to satisfy some sadistic inclination, or which is perpetrated by any kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing is murder of the first degree.
(b) Any murder of any peace officer, executive officer, officer of the court, fireman, judicial officer or prosecuting attorney who was acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty, and was known or should have been known by the perpetrator of the murder to be an officer so acting, shall be murder of the first degree.
(c) Any murder committed by a person under a sentence for murder of the first or second degree, including such persons on parole or probation from such sentence, shall be murder of the first degree.
(d) Any murder committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, aggravated battery on a child under twelve (12) years of age, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem, or an act of terrorism, as defined in section 18-8102, Idaho Code, or the use of a weapon of mass destruction, biological weapon or chemical weapon, is murder of the first degree.
(e) Any murder committed by a person incarcerated in a penal institution upon a person employed by the penal institution, another inmate of the penal institution or a visitor to the penal institution shall be murder of the first degree.
(f) Any murder committed by a person while escaping or attempting to escape from a penal institution is murder of the first degree.
(g) All other kinds of murder are of the second degree.

If AC was killing JJ, it seems odd to bring him back to #175, unless that was specifically to create the illusion, in front of MG and DW, that things were OK, IMO. If LDV killed JJ later, it is odd that no one heard anything. IMO. This subject is really gruesome. I cannot think of any murder in which the deed was specifically done in front of, or directly behind the backs of, house guests.

 

[indicolite22]

If AC was killing JJ, it seems odd to bring him back to #175, unless that was specifically to create the illusion, in front of MG and DW, that things were OK, IMO. If LDV killed JJ later, it is odd that no one heard anything. IMO. This subject is really gruesome. I cannot think of any murder in which the deed was specifically done in front of, or directly behind the backs of, house guests.

Lori claimed in the morning that JJ was climbing the kitchen cabinets. How did he get from being fast asleep to running around? Maybe she tried to justify the noise JJ made when he was being chased and restrained by Lori, Alex or both. When did that happen? When was he taken away? Despite witnesses seeing Alex that evening, we don't know the location of his phone at the time or until he was at Chad's house in the morning. If he had his phone with him when did he go back to his appartment?

ETA: Can we be sure that Alex left JJ in his bed that evening? If the answer is yes and if Alex's phone never travelled to/from Lori's appartment during the night and morning then he must have left his phone at home when he returned to pick up JJ OR Lori took JJ to Alex's appartment.

Scenario 1: Alex didn't put JJ to bed but took him back to his appartment.
Scenario 2: Alex returned during the night to pick up JJ but left his phone at home.
Scenario 3: Alex came to pick up JJ in the morning.
Scenario 4: Lori took JJ to Alex's appartment.

 

[wnk]

When did the church cease advocating polygamy?

Officially, 1890. Unofficially... there continued to be polygamous marriages performed by the church for at least 13 years after that, despite their prophet Joseph Fielding Smith testifying in court in 1904 that "There never has been a plural marriage by the consent or sanction or knowledge or approval of the church since the manifesto." ("The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriages" from LDS.org)

Prior to 1890, LDS leaders taught that polygamy was essential for full exaltation:

"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.268 - p.269, Brigham Young, August 19, 1866)

IMO, it's very easy to see how CD could have viewed taking more than one wife as a return to the church's original teachings. This is very common among LDS offshoot groups.

 

[indicolite22]

IMO, it's very easy to see how CD could have viewed taking more than one wife as a return to the church's original teachings. This is very common among LDS offshoot groups.

Chad's doctrine has been summarized in IP's document. We also learned about it from MG. There was no mention of polygamy.

 

[elliefant]

Thanks @wnk . I suppose it’s a cultural thing but IMO wanting to be a God seems no more admirable a trait than using the church as an excuse to have multiple wives for any other selfish reason.

 

[JolietJake]

(Snipped for focus)
Scenario 1: Alex didn't put JJ to bed but took him back to his appartment.
Scenario 2: Alex returned during the night to pick up JJ but left his phone at home.
Scenario 3: Alex came to pick up JJ in the morning.
Scenario 4: Lori took JJ to Alex's appartment.

This whole thing is screwy but I'd lean towards #1 or #2. DW said it appeared that JJ was sleeping on AxC's shoulder but was he actually sleeping? If JJ was already dead but then, why would he bring JJ back to the townhouse unless it was because he wanted witnesses to see JJ? Then LV made the excuse of JJ climbing on cabinets and that AxC took him. That would have been LV's excuse if MG/DW would have heard some sort of ruckus whether it be JJ being murdered there or being taken back to AxC's in the middle of the night while still alive. Peeling duct tape is real noisy and I can't see AxC/LV messing with plastic bags and duct tape at the townhouse with people over so at that part of the job had to be done at AxC's place.

Here's another thing. Since MG and DW were there the night JJ was murdered, why wouldn't AxC/LV have simply waited a day or two later after they left. Perhaps TD or the Daybell kids would have been home after the next few days and a hole had already been prepared. Maybe that was the only time for disposal of the body.

Lots of questions and theories. Hopefully more evidence will help expalin all this.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Chad's doctrine has been summarized in IP's document. We also learned about it from MG. There was no mention of polygamy.

We cannot assume that Chad exposed his full doctrine to IP, who was, after all, a novice (in the religious sense). Many cults operate on levels of secrecy. Given how incendiary the notion of polygamy is to mainstream Mormons, I would not be surprised if Chad held back that part of his theology until a follower became fully committed. And I also do not see how he could assume the mantle of President of the Church of the Firstborn (point three of the seven point mission) without it. So IMHO it is a possibility biased slightly in the direction of probable.

We won't really know until and unless a fully involved follower comes forward. Which may happen; apostasy, like marital infidelity, can be habitual

 

[indicolite22]

We cannot assume that Chad exposed his full doctrine to IP, who was, after all, a novice (in the religious sense). Many cults operate on levels of secrecy. Given how incendiary the notion of polygamy is to mainstream Mormons, I would not be surprised if Chad held back that part of his theology until a follower became fully committed. And I also do not see how he could assume the mantle of President of the Church of the Firstborn (point three of the seven point mission) without it. So IMHO it is a possibility biased slightly in the direction of probable.

We won't really know until and unless a fully involved follower comes forward. Which may happen; apostasy, like marital infidelity, can be habitual

Historically there were at least two Churches of Firstborn, one polygamous (LeBaron) and the other not (Morrisite).

The term Church of Firstborn (transitioning church) also features in Chad's friends' doctrines/beliefs, for eample JR's. She isn't into polygamy as far as I can tell. Her and Chad's friend ES recently wrote a book about the church.