Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #54

[indicolite22]

Well, I was a bit of a climber as a kid, and that's something that I did, so I don't think that climbing up cupboards is odd at all. I also well remember sitting on my Dad's drop-down desk flap, which of course immediately tipped over. Fortunately I landed on the floor next to the desk, and realising that I would be in awful trouble, ran to my room and hid. My poor mother, running to the scene after hearing the crash, naturally thought that I was squashed underneath. Anyway, I soon emerged, and I wasn't punished at all, as she was so happy to see me in one piece. I wasn't pronounced to be a zombie, and have gone on to lead a normal life.

In this case JJ would be climbing cabinets either at night after being put to bed or in the early morning. IF it really happened I don't think it was due to him being playful. IMO it's possible that he either refused to go with Alex and/or tried to escape being restrained. He climbed on top of the cabinets to be out of reach. I hope I'm wrong and he didn't experience terror before he died.

 

[Kemug]

Ooh, I hadn't thought about him trying to escape. How awful, I do hope it wasn't so.

 

[GRT]

Link is here:

Lori Vallow sent son to brother's home night before he vanished | Daily Mail Online

DW's own words scream that he was worried about JJ, IMO; not that he "thought it was polite" to say goodbye to everyone.

I'm not sure I interpreted DW's concern in quite the same manner -- at least not from that link. I also watched his testimony and he seemed pretty non-committal as far as thinking JJ was in any sort of danger.

He seemed to think it was odd that LV referred to her son as "zombie" for crawling on the cabinets, but I assume he knew JJ was autistic, and that his behavior might have been triggered by his disorder.

From everything both MG and DW have stated to date (both publicly and in their testimonies), I don't think either one of them suspected anything was amiss until LV asked MG to lie about the whereabouts of JJ.

Calling JJ a zombie is concerning in hindsight, but at the time DW and MG visited LV, I imagine it only seemed quirky. Now, looking back, I'm sure both of them see it for what it was -- presplaining from LV with the intent to lay the groundwork for the two of them to accept JJ's demise. At that time, they didn't know Tylee was already dead either--when someone tells you their teen daughter has gone off to school, most folks don't immediately think the teen is dead.

I kind of question DW's intent. He strikes me as very (fringe) religious--nearly as much as CD and LV were.

JMOO

 

[GRT]

In this case JJ would be climbing cabinets either at night after being put to bed or in the early morning. IF it really happened I don't think it was due to him being playful. IMO it's possible that he either refused to go with Alex and/or tried to escape being restrained. He climbed on top of the cabinets to be out of reach. I hope I'm wrong and he didn't experience terror before he died.

That's a hard thing to think about, but I think it's a valid concern.

 

[GRT]

So, according to your words, Chad is the 'Charles Manson' of the Manson cult.

I don't think that's too far-fetched. I think Chad is a control freak and that being in charge of who lived and who died gave him an immense feeling of power. I think he's a very dangerous man. Much like Manson was. JMOO

 

[RexburgSleuth]

That’s an excellent question and the answer would tell us a lot. It can’t be they needed to kill him that night because a hole had just been dug— Chad was well aware LV had houseguests that weekend. And if Lori simply wanted witnesses who saw JJ alive she could have paraded him through the complex or taken him any number of places that would have a record he was there. Even if Tammy were away that weekend, Garth still lived at the house and Emma across the street. Risk of discovery would be high with or without Tammy.

To me there are four possibilities that make sense (as much sense as anything in this case):

1. JJ was killed that weekend because M and D participated in the crime.

At first glance this would be a logical explanation, but after seeing their media interviews and testimony in court it’s hard to believe Melanie and Dave were involved. Of course, they could be lying. Only LV (and possibly Chad) would know it and they couldn’t expose the lies without incriminating themselves. But IMO Melanie and Dave seemed believable on the stand. I’d be surprised to learn they were aware of what happened.

2. JJ started saying alarming things about Tylee’s disappearance and needed to be silenced immediately.

It’s easy to imagine JJ saying things he shouldn’t, either on his own or when questioned about Tylee. But that wouldn’t require the risk of killing him immediately. Alex could just keep JJ away from the apt until the guests were gone.

3. LV lost her temper and killed JJ in a fit of rage.

Completely possible and not inconsistent w/AC’s phone records. As you point out Alex could have come back without his phone to get JJ’s body, or Lori could have brought JJ to Alex. However, since Alex was only at the Daybell home for short time the next day, popular opinion is Chad pre-dug the grave. For that to happen Lori or Alex would have to have called him in the middle of the night and tell him to start digging. Possibly w/Tammy right there. Would be interesting to see a record of LV and AC’s outbound calls in those early morning hours.

4. JJ wasn’t killed that weekend after all

This possibility didn’t occur to me until you asked “Why that weekend?”.

What proof do we have that JJ was buried that Monday morning? Can someone remind me if satellite photos show the earth was disturbed on Monday 9/23?

If not, this is a real possibility. Alex was at Chad’s for about a half-hour that morning. About the time it would take to break the news another body is coming and discuss logistics/location of an upcoming burial. Alex’s phone didn’t ping there later that week but that doesn’t mean Alex didn’t come back without his phone. Or LV could have driven the body over without Alex. Chad could even have driven to pick the body up himself.

Unless there’s evidence apart from pings that he was buried that day, I think it’s quite likely that JJ was still alive when Melanie and David left that morning.

MOO:
I agree that 1 is unlikely.
2 is very likely especially if he witnessed any part of Tylee's demise or arguments/incidents leading up to it on the Yellowstone trip or overheard the guests asking about plans for Tylee's birthday (today she'd be 18) and Lori's lies about those plans. Maybe he was excited to get to see Tylee for her birthday.
3 Her fit of rage can be explained away to D and M by the comments that JJ was climbing the cabinetry as a coverup for any noise.
4 is possible, but if JJ wasn't murdered on the 22nd/23rd and buried on the 23rd, I think it had to have been very soon thereafter. Monday the 23rd JJ wasn't in school. 24th Lori called to pull him out of school. Potato harvest for Madison schools (the district JJ attended) began Sept 27th through Oct 4th. The neighbor kid who wanted to play with JJ but was told he was sent to grandma's is a clue: I assume this was on the 27th because it makes sense for a neighbor kid to want to play with his friend on the first day of the harvest break as he would have more time for play rather than after-school activities, homework, chores, etc. Potato harvest for Sugar Salem schools (the district TD worked at) was Sept 30 through Oct 11 so TD would have been home from work those days and might wonder about a hole in the property and what was buried therein. To me, JJ's death and burial were 22nd-23rd.

Today is Tylee's birthday.

 

[MsJosie]

Happy Birthday sweet Angel Tylee.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Bouncing off @RexburgSleuth

Today is Tylee's 18th birthday.

Today would have been Tylee's 18th birthday.

She should be driving her Jeep. The wind blowing her beautiful blonde hair. She should be laughing in exhilaration over the fact she's an adult. "You can't tell me what to do anymore".

Instead, she was murdered before her 17th birthday.

She should be in a college class today. Or getting ice cream with friends between buying jeans and cool shirts.

Instead, her body was set on fire by raving maniacs before her 17th birthday.

She should be laughing over her little brother singing happy birthday to her. She should be grinning over a text from her big brother. "Happy birthday sweetie. Love you".

Instead, what's left of her burned, chopped up earthly remains are (from what we know) still in the ME's cold storage. After she was dug up in a pet cemetary.

God bless you, baby girl. You mattered. You are loved even though we never knew you until it was too late.

 

[indicolite22]

About Lori killing JJ in a fit of rage: What could have possibly induced her rage at night? JJ was put to bed and was presumably fast asleep. Perhaps she gave him his medication to insure that, like she did a few days earlier in nanny's presence. IMO JJ's murder was well premeditated, just like Tylee's. JJ told his neighbor that he and his sister were going to go visit grandma soon. It's no coincidence that they were both likely killed between Sunday evening and Monday morning. It must have been convenient for their burials.

 

[indicolite22]

Remembering J.J. Vallow 1 year after his last sighting

The article includes Colby's and Kay's recent tributes to JJ on SM.

Also info on today's (September 24) vigil for Tylee: It will be held at the Porter Park pavilion in Rexburg starting at 8:00 p.m.

 

[indicolite22]

'She had a heart of gold.' Vigil planned for Tylee Ryan on her 18th birthday - East Idaho News

“We want her to be remembered and celebrated for the strong, loving, beautiful girl she was,” says Janeese Summers, one of the vigil organizers. “Her spirit is an example to all of us to love and care for and protect anyone around us with everything we have.”

Tylee's aunt SS was interviewed for the article.

The new memorial accross the street from Chad's backyard:

Three detectives that testified at Chad's preliminary hearing also visited the memorial:

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't think that's too far-fetched. I think Chad is a control freak and that being in charge of who lived and who died gave him an immense feeling of power. I think he's a very dangerous man. Much like Manson was. JMOO

I agree that Chad could very well be the "Charles Manson" of this group. However, I believe that Lori was involved with maybe 'helping' him decide who in her life had to be dealt with.

 

[indicolite22]

I agree that Chad could very well be the "Charles Manson" of this group. However, I believe that Lori was involved with maybe 'helping' him decide who in her life had to be dealt with.

What were the other options besides her husband and her kids? I think those were in Chad and Lori's way.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

About Lori killing JJ in a fit of rage: What could have possibly induced her rage at night? JJ was put to bed and was presumably fast asleep. Perhaps she gave him his medication to insure that, like she did a few days earlier in nanny's presence. IMO JJ's murder was well premeditated, just like Tylee's. JJ told his neighbor that he and his sister were going to go visit grandma soon. It's no coincidence that they were both likely killed between Sunday evening and Monday morning. It must have been convenient for their burials.

I suggest everybody listen to Dr. John Matthias' latest two-part podcast on Lori's "Many Extremes" for insight in to how that could happen.

 

[indicolite22]

I suggest everybody listen to Dr. John Matthias' latest two-part podcast on Lori's "Many Extremes" for insight in to how that could happen.

Dr. Matthias diagnoses Lori with BPD and speculates that she was probably sexually abused earlier in life. Then he quotes C.P. Malmquist's book "Homicide: A Psychiatric Perspective" on the topic of BPD: "In the midst of poorly regulated anxiety, depressive states and rage emerge, with the possibility of acting on the murderous rage". The book continues to list characteristics of BPD, which include guilt and depression on one side and manipulation and exploitation on the other. I've yet to see any expression of guilt or depression on Lori's part.

ETA: One of his speculations is also that due to her volatile personality, Lori would turn on Chad first.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Bouncing off @RexburgSleuth

Today is Tylee's 18th birthday.

Today would have been Tylee's 18th birthday.

She should be driving her Jeep. The wind blowing her beautiful blonde hair. She should be laughing in exhilaration over the fact she's an adult. "You can't tell me what to do anymore".

Instead, she was murdered before her 17th birthday.

She should be in a college class today. Or getting ice cream with friends between buying jeans and cool shirts.

Instead, her body was set on fire by raving maniacs before her 17th birthday.

She should be laughing over her little brother singing happy birthday to her. She should be grinning over a text from her big brother. "Happy birthday sweetie. Love you".

Instead, what's left of her burned, chopped up earthly remains are (from what we know) still in the ME's cold storage. After she was dug up in a pet cemetary.

God bless you, baby girl. You mattered. You are loved even though we never knew you until it was too late.

thanks for making me cry! She would have been a lovely woman.

 

[Colorado303]

MOO:
I agree that 1 is unlikely.
2 is very likely especially if he witnessed any part of Tylee's demise or arguments/incidents leading up to it on the Yellowstone trip or overheard the guests asking about plans for Tylee's birthday (today she'd be 18) and Lori's lies about those plans. Maybe he was excited to get to see Tylee for her birthday.
3 Her fit of rage can be explained away to D and M by the comments that JJ was climbing the cabinetry as a coverup for any noise.
4 is possible, but if JJ wasn't murdered on the 22nd/23rd and buried on the 23rd, I think it had to have been very soon thereafter. Monday the 23rd JJ wasn't in school. 24th Lori called to pull him out of school. Potato harvest for Madison schools (the district JJ attended) began Sept 27th through Oct 4th. The neighbor kid who wanted to play with JJ but was told he was sent to grandma's is a clue: I assume this was on the 27th because it makes sense for a neighbor kid to want to play with his friend on the first day of the harvest break as he would have more time for play rather than after-school activities, homework, chores, etc. Potato harvest for Sugar Salem schools (the district TD worked at) was Sept 30 through Oct 11 so TD would have been home from work those days and might wonder about a hole in the property and what was buried therein. To me, JJ's death and burial were 22nd-23rd.

Today is Tylee's birthday.

I think your entire post is spot on. And while I question whether JJ was killed on Sunday when LV had houseguests, I have no doubt they murdered and buried him in the next day or two.

Painfully ironic it happened close to (or perhaps even on) Tylee’s birthday. But you’re right—JJ probably knew it was going to be Tylees birthday and expected to see her. They didn’t want anyone saying Tylees name out loud ever again.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I think your entire post is spot on. And while I question whether JJ was killed on Sunday when LV had houseguests, I have no doubt they murdered and buried him in the next day or two.

Painfully ironic it happened close to (or perhaps even on) Tylee’s birthday. But you’re right—JJ probably knew it was going to be Tylees birthday and expected to see her. They didn’t want anyone saying Tylees name out loud ever again.

I agree with you about Tylee's name not being spoken aloud; and especially not by JJ, who it was widely acknowledged had no filter (I still tear up when I think about how quickly he accepted and got attached to Annie Cushing). He quite possibly wouldn't have stopped; and he almost certainly wouldn't have cared if his questions seemed "weird" or "odd" to an adult.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Dr. Matthias diagnoses Lori with BPD and speculates that she was probably sexually abused earlier in life. Then he quotes C.P. Malmquist's book "Homicide: A Psychiatric Perspective" on the topic of BPD: "In the midst of poorly regulated anxiety, depressive states and rage emerge, with the possibility of acting on the murderous rage". The book continues to list characteristics of BPD, which include guilt and depression on one side and manipulation and exploitation on the other. I've yet to see any expression of guilt or depression on Lori's part.

ETA: One of his speculations is also that due to her volatile personality, Lori would turn on Chad first.

I’ve seen no one express Lori ever showed guilt or depression. Videos certainly don’t show it. She has more than BPD issues.

 

[Teche]

I know strokes take a terrible toll. Both my sisters and my brother had strokes. One sister and one brother lived for a couple years afterward but their quality of life wasn’t the same and they were, of course, afraid. My other sister didn’t make it past ten days. A severe blow to me. But I have seen first hand what it does. My nephew had a severe stroke at an early age and will never be the same physically. People do not understand how common strokes are. Your words to them are very wise. I pray you live a very long, healthy life and will be stroke free from here on. Many people do. Glad you are here!

Sorry about your siblings and nephew having had strokes. Sometimes there is a genetic factor involved. My daughter, me, my mother, maternal aunt, 2 1st cousins, and maternal grandmother have/had a blood clotting disorder, Factor 5 Leiden. we first learned of the condition when my 21 yr. old daughter was hospitalized with 3 pulmonary embolisms. She is now 40 and did have deep vein thrombosis that were brought on with pregnancy hormones. Her 1st PE’s were brought on by carrying the Factor 5 gene and taking birth control pills.