Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #45

[Forever Young]

<snipped for focus by me>

Thank you @Redvines86 for going on Tricia's YouTube yesterday. It's great to be able to put a voice to your posts now.

anyone who missed it it's here

MOO

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed this @Redvines86! and a future road trip for Tricia and Redvines86!

 

[Drc40]

I think they need to, and will, bring murder charges before her hearing. I can't see the logic in pursuing desertion charges now.

Means is in a Catch22 situation because although she is being held on untenable charges now (imo) he knows if she didn't know they were dead she must have deserted them, at the very least, for the last 9 months. I think her time for saying she relinquished them into someone else's care is long passed, given that she has stayed in her jail cell, silent, requesting continuances.

MOO

I actually think they won’t bring murder charges before the hearing. I think they’re taking their time because they can flush out Means potential murder defense by observing what he brings on the desertion charges. They also might be waiting to see if one of them cracks or another in their circle cracks and flips. The prosecution doesn’t need to be in a hurry. She’s already in jail and they can learn a lot from the prelim. We’ll see but I think it would be sound strategy to continue with desertion case.

 

[Tortoise]

I actually think they won’t bring murder charges before the hearing. I think they’re taking their time because they can flush out Means potential murder defense by observing what he brings on the desertion charges. They also might be waiting to see if one of them cracks or another in their circle cracks and flips. The prosecution doesn’t need to be in a hurry. She’s already in jail and they can learn a lot from the prelim. We’ll see but I think it would be sound strategy to continue with desertion case.

We shall indeed see, not long to go now. It would be very interesting to get Means' strategy, but I just can't wrap my head around pursuing a case of desertion on the same dates they now know the children were buried. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

new filings in LV's case -

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

CR33-20-0302 - Madison County
State of Idaho v. Lori Norene Vallow, AKA Lori Norene Daybell

• 06/26/2020 Request to Obtain Approval to Video/Audio Record, Broadcast or Photograph a Court Proceeedin - A+E Networks
• 06/26/2020 Request to Obtain Approval to Video/Audio Record, Broadcast or Photograph a Court Proceeedin - Post Register

 

[indicolite22]

This is disgusting. More evidence of what a cult can do to a person.

And I believe that MBP is still a member. Unlike MG she didn't publicly reject Chad's doctrine in interviews, but instead pretended that the zombie idea was part of Charles' imagination. Of course IP's document paints a different picture of MBP.

 

[vislaw]

Is Lori’s hearing still scheduled for next week? Is there any precedence for this situation where a parent is charged with desertion and nonsupport but then the child was found deceased? How could her lawyer argue that she couldn’t have deserted them since they are deceased without implicating she knew they were dead? Will new charges be applied at the hearing to ensure she stays in jail?

It is important to understand this is a preliminary hearing which will be limited solely to the question as to whether or not the state has sufficient evidence for the current charges to support going forward to trial. The preliminary hearing is required by the constitution as due process to make certain the state has a minimum amount of evidence to be able to proceed. Most defense lawyers treat preliminary hearings as a free opportunity to get a peek at what evidence the state has so the proceeding is usually rather pro-forma. On rare occasions the defense will make an effort to dispute the charges in the hopes the judge will agree that the prosecution has failed to meet its burden. In high profile cases with lots of public attention, the defense may grandstand in an attempt to a create a narrative they hope will be helpful.

In this case everybody knows the desertion and contempt charges are basically proxies to hold Lori until more serious charges can be added. There really isn't a good reason for the state to add more charges since they can easily meet the threshold for probable cause for desertion/contempt etc.

In this case the prosecution may choose to simply ignore the now-known deaths of the kids. After all, if the fact is not introduced as competent evidence, the court may not consider it and the only question would be whether there is a minimum amount of evidence to show Lori breached her obligation to support and protect the kids. Of course, there is a mountain of evidence showing the lack of any support or care for the children. On the other hand, the prosecution very well may choose to introduce evidence of the discovery of the bodies on June 9th. After all, everyone knows the bodies were found and it certainly is a prejudicial fact and the prosecution need not say anything about the probable dates of the deaths and certainly there is no definitive evidence right now establishing time of death or the events that preceded the burials. I don't expect new charges by the date of the hearing but it could happen at any time. I just expect them to wait until they have completed more investigation before they announce murder charges.

 

[Drc40]

...Most defense lawyers treat preliminary hearings as a free opportunity to get a peek at what evidence the state has so the proceeding is usually rather pro-forma. On rare occasions the defense will make an effort to dispute the charges in the hopes the judge will agree that the prosecution has failed to meet its burden. In high profile cases with lots of public attention, the defense may grandstand in an attempt to a create a narrative they hope will be helpful.

In this case everybody knows the desertion and contempt charges are basically proxies toThere really isn't a good reason for the state to add more charges since they can easily meet the threshold for probable cause for desertion/contempt etc...I don't expect new charges by the date of the hearing...

***snipped for focus***

I agree with your conclusions and I’m betting the prosecution is forming their strategy based on the dime store lawyer Lolo has employed. This guy is a disaster and won’t be able to hold back from grandstanding and bloviating. It might be his downfall but should be entertaining to watch. No new charges forces them to either argue or submit. My guess is he argues.

 

[missingm]

It is important to understand this is a preliminary hearing which will be limited solely to the question as to whether or not the state has sufficient evidence for the current charges to support going forward to trial. The preliminary hearing is required by the constitution as due process to make certain the state has a minimum amount of evidence to be able to proceed. Most defense lawyers treat preliminary hearings as a free opportunity to get a peek at what evidence the state has so the proceeding is usually rather pro-forma. On rare occasions the defense will make an effort to dispute the charges in the hopes the judge will agree that the prosecution has failed to meet its burden. In high profile cases with lots of public attention, the defense may grandstand in an attempt to a create a narrative they hope will be helpful.

In this case everybody knows the desertion and contempt charges are basically proxies to hold Lori until more serious charges can be added. There really isn't a good reason for the state to add more charges since they can easily meet the threshold for probable cause for desertion/contempt etc.

In this case the prosecution may choose to simply ignore the now-known deaths of the kids. After all, if the fact is not introduced as competent evidence, the court may not consider it and the only question would be whether there is a minimum amount of evidence to show Lori breached her obligation to support and protect the kids. Of course, there is a mountain of evidence showing the lack of any support or care for the children. On the other hand, the prosecution very well may choose to introduce evidence of the discovery of the bodies on June 9th. After all, everyone knows the bodies were found and it certainly is a prejudicial fact and the prosecution need not say anything about the probable dates of the deaths and certainly there is no definitive evidence right now establishing time of death or the events that preceded the burials. I don't expect new charges by the date of the hearing but it could happen at any time. I just expect them to wait until they have completed more investigation before they announce murder charges.

I think the prosecution should go ahead with a murder charge against Chad and Lori based on the bodies found and their running off to Hawaii. The location of the bodies, their lack of concern, and actual efforts to conceal the existence of the children existing speak to guilt. Force one to turn on the other.

 

[TheLoadedGoat]

We are all so thirsty to know what's going on. Can you imagine all the things going on in Chad's mind and Lori's mind? Wondering if the other has turned or will turn on them. Wondering what other evidence LE has. Wondering about what others outside jail are saying, i.e., MG, MBP, IP, etc. It's got to be excruciating and unless either are mental giants (which we know they are not,) somebody's got to give in. Lori has nobody and nothing awaiting her. Chad has the possibility of his family. My money is he will try to get a deal.

 

[Tortoise]

Nate Eaton - Reporter
54 mins ·
On Oct. 3, Chad was working outside and he came in to tell Tammy that her deceased Grandma Cooper had visited him. Grandma Cooper told Chad that Tammy needed to go see her parents in Springville, Utah.

REXBURG — A lot happened in the Daybell investigation over the course of eight weeks last fall. Crucial events occurred in eastern Idaho during September and October that are key points in the investigation against Chad and Lori Daybell. Chad was arrested June 9 on two felony counts of destruction...

A closer look at two pivotal months in the Daybell investigation | East Idaho News

OCT. 3 — Lori returns to the storage facility with a different man, likely Alex, and they remove the tire and car seat from the locker.

That same day, family members tell EastIdahoNews.com that Chad was working outside and he came in to tell Tammy that her deceased grandmother Cooper had visited him. He claims Grandma Cooper told him that Tammy needed to go see her parents in Springville, Utah. Tammy had mentioned to Chad earlier in the week that she wanted to see her family, but she was hesitant to go. Tammy always traveled with Chad or the children, but after her husband told her about his vision, she got in the car the next day and drove to Springville by herself.

OCT. 4 — Tammy arrives in Springville in the evening and has dinner with her parents. She spends the night at her sister’s house.

OCT. 5 — Tammy wakes up around 9 a.m. and drives back to Rexburg.

 

[Tricia]

CLICK HERE AT 2:00 PM EASTERN AND JOIN US TODAY FOR OUR WEBSLEUTHS YOUTUBE LIVE CHAT.

WE'LL BE DISCUSSING YOUR POSTS AND CASES ON WEBSLEUTHS.

 

[Tortoise]

New information from that EIN article - confirming my belief that Lori was hiding her residency in Rexburg by getting Alex to sign the lease - hence why MBP did not tell police that Lori lived there - only that her aunt sometimes goes over there. (I wouldn't be surprised to learn she didn't even tell them that)

Lori took the storage unit in the name Lori Ryan.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Thank you @Redvines86 for going on Tricia's YouTube yesterday. It's great to be able to put a voice to your posts now.

anyone who missed it it's here

When you talked about Chad's advice to you to drop one of your school friends, and you suspect it was because she was a strong female who didn't put up with a lot from anybody, I have to say that has been my thinking for a while now as regards why Tylee was a threat to Chad. Lori too. I think that is why she was murdered.

We saw Tylee in a supporting role for Lori at the police station in January 2019, and again in July 2019. I think that what those bodycam videos and interview notes show about her is that she was really very responsible, hyper-vigilant, intelligent, and super-protective of JJ, but I think in terms of her supporting Lori's narrative I don't necessarily see that as representing typical Tylee. In both instances she was in the presence of police officers, right after very high drama that she had not had time to fully assimilate, treated as if she was an adult both times, and in the case of Charles' death unsupported to bear witness against her mother and uncle, after a shocking incident where she would effectively be risking her life to testify against her family. So I don't actually think that just because she kept Lori's secrets on those occasions that she was actually supportive of her, or considered by Lori and Chad to be an ally or someone who would be trusted to not turn against them at some point in the future and reveal their scheming depravity and wickedness. She had her feet planted firmly in reality, imo, and she wouldn't have been buying into any of the 'cult's' nonsense. That's why Lori told her the link Charles sent her was about crazy people - she had to distance herself from it because that is what Tylee thought.

Now new information is coming out to support this - Annie wrote in a text (linked upthread) in 2018 after Joe's death "Tylee opened up to me the last night, after Lolo went to bed. [...] the resentment Tylee has toward Lolo is so deep" and MG said on Dateline "she did not have a good relationship with her mom".

MOO

@Redvines86 I just listened to this whole episode. OH.MY. GOSH! Insecure Chad goes clear back to prob Jr high/high school. The part about intimidated by a strong female I can see weave through this entire mess. Everyone has said Tylee was a strong young women with a fight to her and she was a threat to Chad's "authority" . What an arrogant pig cloaked in religion and spiritual superiority. YUCK! Excellent interview @Redvines86

 

[vislaw]

I think the prosecution should go ahead with a murder charge against Chad and Lori based on the bodies found and their running off to Hawaii. The location of the bodies, their lack of concern, and actual efforts to conceal the existence of the children existing speak to guilt. Force one to turn on the other.

As soon as the prosecution files murder charges the clock starts running. In Idaho a defendant may insist on a trial within 180 days of the filing of the Criminal Information. This rarely occurs because defense attorneys need to prepare a defense. HOWEVER, if a clever defense counsel feels the state is not fully prepared they may insist on the defendant's right to a speedy trial and catch the state not fully prepared and, of course, the state only gets one chance. This is why, in a case with both defendants arrested and in jail, a prosecutor would be foolish to rush to trial unless he/she has all the info necessary to convict both. As soon as you play the murder card you must be ready to convict within 180 days should the defense press for it.

 

[Tricia]

Sometimes I feel like Melani and Ian and Brandon need their own thread, that whole story is so confusing and I still don't really get what was going on. I hope we find out more from electronic evidence just to help me get a handle on what all that was. MOO

Redvine86 thank you so much for coming on Websleuths YouTube last night. You offered amazing insight into Chad and Tammy. I really appreciate you letting us in on your life as a teenager in high school. It was fascinating.

 

[Boxer]

The focus of this particular discussion is about the timing and source of the word "dismembered", though. I contend that Nate Eaton, with the best of intentions, added this characterization himself, when no LE source has said this word. He also does not attribute it to anyone or anything other than (I assume) his reading of the APC, which does not state that. As for Annie Cushing, she may be an allowable subject here, but unless she cites a reference, I think we have to assume she also got it from Nate Eaton putting it out there in MSM.

ETA: can you give me a specific link within Annie's twitter feed that I can look at? I can't find the word "dismembered" in her comprehensive timeline.

MOO it's implied in the but more explicit information was needed. An An ME need to say it.

@Redvines86 I just listened to this whole episode. OH.MY. GOSH! Insecure Chad goes clear back to prob Jr high/high school. The part about intimidated by a strong female I can see weave through this entire mess. Everyone has said Tylee was a strong young women with a fight to her and she was a threat to Chad's "authority" . What an arrogant pig cloaked in religion and spiritual superiority. YUCK! Excellent interview @Redvines86

Great observation.
She probably wasn't being quiet about what she honestly and rightly saw about CD. That was a threat to him.

 

[Sachi]

And I believe that MBP is still a member. Unlike MG she didn't publicly reject Chad's doctrine in interviews, but instead pretended that the zombie idea was part of Charles' imagination. Of course IP's document paints a different picture of MBP.

MPH an ideologue of CD’s bent doctrine, denial is necessary to avoid what she can’t consider, that his impregnated doctrine with the help of his muse and co-conspirator LV is anti life and murderous at its core, Her obsession and dedication to a God was actually just to a very very bad person she gave her power up to and whom, no doubt , was pivotal to murdering innocent people, some that she says she loved and not for any “higher” Purpose but for sex, money and illusion of power. It might take years for her to admit the truth of her involvement to herself , if ever- horrific



J m o o at this moment.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I ran across this extended 12 News interview with MBP and IP that I hadn’t seen before. She sure is good at dodging questions. JMO

Published on May 12, 2020

It's been about eight months since anyone has seen 17-year-old Tylee Ryan or 7-year-old JJ Vallow. Their mother, Lori Vallow Daybell, is in jail in Idaho, refusing to tell investigators where they are.

Now, one of her closest relatives, Melani Pawlowski is speaking to 12 News about the case with her husband Ian. Here's an extended version of our interview:

1:35 The last time Melani saw JJ and Tylee

3:18 What connection Lori’s brother Alex Cox has in the case

10:03 Lori’s explanation to Melani about where the kids are

12:00 Melani and Ian’s quick marriage

15:40 How Ian started recording conversations for the FBI

21:00 Where the idea of “zombies” came from and other radical beliefs

26:40 Lori’s relationship with Chad Daybell

33:30 Melani on whether or not she thinks the kids are safe

43:00 Melani on whether or not there’s a cult

45:50 Melani’s last conversation with Lori

I am sorry, I don't know at what minute it was as I have this playing in the background. Did she refer to Tylee as her sister? She said something like her sister was going to school nearby?

Noting also around 12:45 in IP introduced Melani to his kids as she didn't have anyone to be with at Thanksgiving in ARIZONA. He said he drove down from Idaho with his kids to his family in ARIZONA. He says Melani was there taking care of her business with her old house. Melani's family lives in ARIZONA--why did she not have anyone to have Thanksgiving with? What is it with the COX family and Thanksgiving. Does this indicate that indeed Lori was with Chad over Thanksgiving? Where was Alex? OR are we seeing Melani the manipulator as well?

ETA

@Tortoise Can we add where these two are located during this time to the timeline?

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Nate Eaton - Reporter
54 mins ·
On Oct. 3, Chad was working outside and he came in to tell Tammy that her deceased Grandma Cooper had visited him. Grandma Cooper told Chad that Tammy needed to go see her parents in Springville, Utah.

REXBURG — A lot happened in the Daybell investigation over the course of eight weeks last fall. Crucial events occurred in eastern Idaho during September and October that are key points in the investigation against Chad and Lori Daybell. Chad was arrested June 9 on two felony counts of destruction...

A closer look at two pivotal months in the Daybell investigation | East Idaho News

OCT. 3 — Lori returns to the storage facility with a different man, likely Alex, and they remove the tire and car seat from the locker.

That same day, family members tell EastIdahoNews.com that Chad was working outside and he came in to tell Tammy that her deceased grandmother Cooper had visited him. He claims Grandma Cooper told him that Tammy needed to go see her parents in Springville, Utah. Tammy had mentioned to Chad earlier in the week that she wanted to see her family, but she was hesitant to go. Tammy always traveled with Chad or the children, but after her husband told her about his vision, she got in the car the next day and drove to Springville by herself.

OCT. 4 — Tammy arrives in Springville in the evening and has dinner with her parents. She spends the night at her sister’s house.

OCT. 5 — Tammy wakes up around 9 a.m. and drives back to Rexburg.

From this article we learn a little more about Alex the day they went to Yellowstone: He goes to Maverik and returns to Lori’s house from 10:44 p.m. until 11:15 p.m. At 11:44 p.m., he is located at his house.

So my question is where was he for almost 30 minutes? The walk from Loris townhouse to his wouldn’t have taken that long. All jmo

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

From this article we learn a little more about Alex the day they went to Yellowstone: He goes to Maverik and returns to Lori’s house from 10:44 p.m. until 11:15 p.m. At 11:44 p.m., he is located at his house.

So my question is where was he for almost 30 minutes? The walk from Loris townhouse to his wouldn’t have taken that long. All jmo

From the article:
Alex’s phone was at Lori’s apartment, where the kids were staying, from 2:42 a.m. until 3:37 a.m. Detectives indicate this is significant because it’s the middle of the night and the only time in September he appears to go to Lori’s house between midnight and 6 a.m. Alex goes home at 4:37 a.m. and stays there until 8:59 a.m.

Again there’s an hour of time that’s missing. Where was Alex from 3:38 to 4:36 am? Jmo