Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #46

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Some people have questioned the religion. Some people have questioned the childhoods. Some people have questioned mental health.
Looking at all the players so far it is apparent to me that Lori was on this path for a while. It may look differently now due to the religion and her PIC but her patterns of behaviour and ex husbands show that she was the perfect storm waiting to happen. I’m expecting far more skeletons to fall out of her closet (no pun intended) then we have seen this far. I think the path was accelerated by her meeting chad and him enabling or encouraging her. History is full of crime duos who once joined forces reeked havoc. I think this is what we see here. He gave her an added motive (not that she needed one), a place to bury Tylee and JJ and the financial support she felt she was robbed off after Charles died and his funds went to his sister. She is self serving and all of this shows that. Her insisting to be called Mrs Daybell is likely her gearing up to fling more of the blame onto Chad, in addition to showing him she is still committed so he should keep his mouth shut (it’s all over the news that she asked to be called that). Her lies have caught up with her and I like that the CC detailed that some of those lies are evidenced on camera.
All just MOO
 
JoJoJoey2407 said:
IMO, conspiracy and hiding a body are way different than murder. If LE proves that Chad did, in fact, murder the kids, wouldn't they be able to charge him with 2 counts of murder (or 1, depending if he killed both)? So if he pleads guilty to these lesser, but still very serious charges, he couldn't face murder charges later on? Not sure if I make sense.
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Do we have the causes of death yet?
 
Colorado303 said:
I would imagine their attorneys are able to show them video of any televised court case pertaining to them (where their name is mentioned). And possibly even transcripts of untelevised cases.

Now that I’ve said that, Maybe I’m wrong. Witnesses in a trial are often not allowed in the courtroom until after their testimony is over. I wonder if some similar rule would be at play here so one co-conspirator can’t parrot what another has said.

This Case (and all the related cases that comprise “This Case” ) makes me appreciate just how much a lawyer will need to know to adequately defend or prosecute LVD and Chad. Apart from the crimes themselves they are dealing w/the complexities of 1. conspiracy charges (multiple defendants including one who’s dead). 2. Multiple jurisdictions. 3. Conflict of interest issues and 4. Freedom of religion parameters to name a few. All this in a very small town where everyone knows each other. With world-wide press coverage. During an unprecedented historic pandemic.

It’s hard to imagine either defense attorney has the paralegal resources that will be needed to research the many issues likely to come up. These attorneys have their client’s lives in their hands and if they are in it “for the right reasons” they probably wake up at night in a cold sweat. On the other hand, if like their clients they’re narcissistic publicity hounds more likely they’re sleeping like babies while visions of speaking tours and book deals dance in their heads.

@gitana1 , @vislaw and any other attorneys — will Chad and Lori be allowed to see video and read transcripts of each other’s court proceedings? And what do you think will be the most challenging aspects of these cases for the attorneys involved? If you were criminal trial attorneys would you want this case or would you run?
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Great post. Yes, indeed, a defendant's attorney is permitted to share any information felt useful for the preparation of the case (unless the judge rules specific material to be sealed or confidential). As you might expect, the constitution requires due process and fair trials so that has been liberally interpreted to mean lawyers can and should share everything. Most courts have a local rule prohibiting a witness from sitting in to hear testimony until they have testified. This is meant to prevent a witness from tailoring what he/she says to fit prior testimony. Many courts limit this to only expert witnesses and all courts can relax or waive that rule. In any case, a defendant is ALWAYS permitted to be present (and often is required to be present in criminal cases). Most certainly both Chad and Lori will be permitted to read testimony from any case relevant to theirs.

Since we're still not to the point that murder charges are filed we don't know if the state will choose to try them together. Most likely that will be the case (see, for instance, the Dan Markel murder trial in which Magbanua and Garcia were tried together). Assuming that is the case, the most challenging aspect here for the defense attorneys is the fact that there is so much horrendous evidence against both of them independently. Defending Lori would necessarily mean choosing whether to implicitly defend Chad or to try and implicate him. Similarly, defending Chad would mean making a corollary decision. What a nightmare to be defending Lori and know that all the evidence is going to come in as to Chad's misconduct. What a nightmare to be defending Chad and knowing what a horrible mother and liar Lori is and how much of it is on record. And we haven't even discussed the added complexity of Tammy and Charles very well being additional counts against one or both of them.

If I were a capital murder qualified defense attorney I would kill to get one of these cases. I'd approach it with the idea that avoiding the death penalty would be victory and I'd handle the case with that as my primary objective. Look at how Baez rode the publicity from Casey Anthony to then represent Aaron Hernandez. He's probably got feelers out to both families now and I wouldn't be surprised to see him eventually surface after murder charges are filed.
 
Nikynoo said:
Listening to Scott R - he is saying something around pleading guilty to the current charges will prevent the prosecution bringing further charges because the two are instrinsically linked. Your thoughts? Listen in about 6.50
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In my opinion its not remotely possible a guilty plea to the current charges could foreclose pursuing murder and conspiracy to commit murder as well as any number of additional charges stemming from the crimes committed. The only possibility would be if "all the elements" of the lesser charge were relied upon the make the murder or conspiracy charge. The prosecution in this case has been very careful to avoid this. ALL of the current charges stem from destroying evidence or concealing it. None of it relates to the intent required for murder or conspiracy.
 
wenwe4 said:
Sounds of children singing in the background "The wheels on the bus go round and round . . ."

How will CD's kids explain this to his grandchildren? Gather round kids, let me tell you a story about your Grandfather . . .
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Perps like those two in jail never consider or care about all the extraneous victims they will impact.
 
DI_Isokawa said:
I believe we give the topic of the phones too little attention. The important thing about the Dateline tweet is not just its content but the fact that the producer felt he could make it without jeopardizing his relationship with LE. This makes it look like an "approved" leak.

I believe the phones are evidence that there was a larger group with which Chad and/or Lori communicated. I believe that her quick trips to Hawaii were not to sit in the sun, but rather to meet with person or persons unknown. I believe that the January trip was right after a failed attempt to murder Charles. I believe that the alleged October trip with Melani (assuming BB had it right) had a similar motive because it came after the failed attempt on BB's life. I believe it possible that the box or boxes that went ahead of them in the late November trip may have contained phones. There is evidence Lori used three phones. There is no evidence I have found that Alex carried a burner phone. So we have Lori's public phone, a burner to talk to Chad (who, comically, probably really didn't know Lori's public number on November 26th and had to call her on the burner phone to get it so he could give it to LE), and a third to talk to ... somebody.
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BBM. BAM! It never occurred to me but dollars to donuts you are right! When cops asked CV for Lori’s phone number he really didn’t have it. I hope he thought he’d dodged that bullet and when LE asked again he hadn’t bothered to find out her “real number”. With luck, he wound up giving them the number to her burner phone. The same phone she used when she wanted communications to be anonymous. I hope it wasn’t just her Bat Phone to Chad but she used it to communicate w/AC, Z and Melaniece too. I can’t wait to see what they’ve been able to pull from that phone.
 
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wenwe4 said:
Sounds of children singing in the background "The wheels on the bus go round and round . . ."

How will CD's kids explain this to his grandchildren? Gather round kids, let me tell you a story about your Grandfather . . .
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We have an extended family member or two that have such stories. One who seemed to get married to a new woman every time he came into town but there are no death certificates for any of these wives, and a couple who were part of a conspiracy murder and a couple of books have been written about them and their hanging. So family stories certainly get passed down, however they usually aren't the children but their cousins who fill the grandkids in on it.

(the people I've vaguely referenced are both from the late 1800s in Canada so not recent)

Unless these adults move and change their names, at some point the grandkids will be informed. Most stories get kept and passed by the genealogist in the family and LDS have genealogists. (which funny enough they don't always share as there are ways to seal off their records about certain people, just like the Catholic church. Ask me why I know. :) )
 
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Spartygirl said:
Thanks @Niner

Reading all these counts and watching LVD's hearing yesterday just re-enforces my opinion that AxC did not die of natural causes, I don't care what the autopsy shows.
These charges and the reports of how JJ and Tylee's bodies were found are horrific and it is just too convenient to have the one who was noted to be around each child prior to a visit to CD's house where they were buried, just die of natural causes plus add in the day after TD's body was exhumed.
JMO
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I'm wondering, too, if AxC's death was not natural. He died in AZ, right? LVD or CD weren't in AZ at that time, were they? IIRC, he had Narcan in his system. I think first responders administer that when they suspect an overdose. So that could be why it was in his system. But what if he did take some type of drugs? Could LVD or CD have paid him with drugs, for his "work" in getting rid of the kids? All JMO
 
chwilfrydedd said:
I think they really do believe it. I think it’s why they are able to disassociate with common decency (for lack of a better word) ie walking around hugging and kissing while Tammy was alive, killing spouses and children etc etc. I think they really believed they would be protected as they did God’s work? I think it will be interesting to see what happens as they realize that the Angels are not coming to rescue them...will their minds ‘clear’ or will they go down believing that they are martyrs for the cause.
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chwilfrydedd said:
I think they really do believe it. I think it’s why they are able to disassociate with common decency (for lack of a better word) ie walking around hugging and kissing while Tammy was alive, killing spouses and children etc etc. I think they really believed they would be protected as they did God’s work? I think it will be interesting to see what happens as they realize that the Angels are not coming to rescue them...will their minds ‘clear’ or will they go down believing that they are martyrs for the cause.
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The end of the world will obviously be postponed until Chad and Lori’s mundane legal troubles are resolved. They are far too important to end the world without them.

And those demons in ID LE, the FBI and Kay will be solely responsible for preventing the Second Coming.
 
Colorado303 said:
BAM! It never occurred to me but dollars to donuts you are right! When cops asked CV for Lori’s phone number he really didn’t have it. I hope he thought he’d dodged that bullet and when LE asked again he hadn’t bothered to find out her “real number”. With luck, he wound up giving them the number to her burner phone. The same phone she used when she wanted communications to be anonymous. I hope it wasn’t just her Bat Phone yo Chad but she used it to communicate w/AC, Z and Melaniece too. I can’t wait to see what they’ve been able to pull from that phone.
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YES! ... Moreover, these two were relishing their status as prophets or gods to their followers and that means there were a massive number of communication threads going on with them. Tylee commented that Lori gave the appearance of being a drug dealer with her multiple phones and having to field calls all the time. What I find fascinating is that this was a quite defined clique (or cult if you prefer) and Chad and Lori were acting as a hub. That means that in addition to all the digital communication (email, texts, phone calls) you have a very identifiable population of believers on the other end. Even if all these acolytes flushed their phones and wiped their computers (unlikely) they still will have to answer questions from the authorities as to what they recall and what they did while facing possible charges for obstruction/perjury and more if they don't cooperate. What MG has related so far is just a tiny thimble compared with the ocean of information out there and I'm sure LE hasn't been sitting around eating donuts for the past few months.
 
Colorado303 said:
The end of the world will obviously be postponed until Chad and Lori’s mundane legal troubles are resolved. They are far too important to end the world without them.

And those demons in ID LE, the FBI and Kay are will be solely responsible for preventing the Second Coming.
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I don't know about you but I've put in a specific prayer request that God hold off any veil lifting end-of-world scenarios until after the 24th. :p
 
Colorado303 said:
The end of the world will obviously be postponed until Chad and Lori’s mundane legal troubles are resolved. They are far too important to end the world without them.

And those demons in ID LE, the FBI and Kay will be solely responsible for preventing the Second Coming.
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That da*n free agency keeps getting in the way. :(
 
vislaw said:
Great post. Yes, indeed, a defendant's attorney is permitted to share any information felt useful for the preparation of the case (unless the judge rules specific material to be sealed or confidential). As you might expect, the constitution requires due process and fair trials so that has been liberally interpreted to mean lawyers can and should share everything. Most courts have a local rule prohibiting a witness from sitting in to hear testimony until they have testified. This is meant to prevent a witness from tailoring what he/she says to fit prior testimony. Many courts limit this to only expert witnesses and all courts can relax or waive that rule. In any case, a defendant is ALWAYS permitted to be present (and often is required to be present in criminal cases). Most certainly both Chad and Lori will be permitted to read testimony from any case relevant to theirs.

Since we're still not to the point that murder charges are filed we don't know if the state will choose to try them together. Most likely that will be the case (see, for instance, the Dan Markel murder trial in which Magbanua and Garcia were tried together). Assuming that is the case, the most challenging aspect here for the defense attorneys is the fact that there is so much horrendous evidence against both of them independently. Defending Lori would necessarily mean choosing whether to implicitly defend Chad or to try and implicate him. Similarly, defending Chad would mean making a corollary decision. What a nightmare to be defending Lori and know that all the evidence is going to come in as to Chad's misconduct. What a nightmare to be defending Chad and knowing what a horrible mother and liar Lori is and how much of it is on record. And we haven't even discussed the added complexity of Tammy and Charles very well being additional counts against one or both of them.

If I were a capital murder qualified defense attorney I would kill to get one of these cases. I'd approach it with the idea that avoiding the death penalty would be victory and I'd handle the case with that as my primary objective. Look at how Baez rode the publicity from Casey Anthony to then represent Aaron Hernandez. He's probably got feelers out to both families now and I wouldn't be surprised to see him eventually surface after murder charges are filed.
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Please...no no Baez! I want a trial not a circus!
 
Charlotte65 said:
I actually disagree about the default usage of female honorifics (although I'm sure it varies by region, etc.). Indeed, if I were a judge, I'm certain that I'd use "Ms" all the time, since it's really the only choice that is never overtly wrong, which would give me one less thing to think about. Still, it seems to me that in everyday conversation, if you *know* that a woman has chosen to use the surname of her husband (rather than her maiden surname), then "Mrs." does seem to me like a very normal and non-offensive choice in many contexts, especially one in which the husband in question is certainly at least a peripheral part of the conversation. If you haven't any information on this front, then "Ms" is the clear choice. But I think it's a little weird to refer to a child as "Ms," so I do think there's definitely still a place for "Miss," even if we now drop its usage much earlier because it no longer feels appropriate to use "Miss" as a signaling prefix in order to indicate the marital status of a woman of potentially marriageable age. It's a little harder for boys, because there's definitely a long period during which "Mr." isn't quite right, but "Master" begins to feel unbearably twee …
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I agree with you (I think). There is still a place for Miss and (IMO) Ma'am. I almost posted this as a question last night:How would you hail a woman whose name you don't know to get her attention? "Excuse me, ____?" For me, probably owing to my age and where and when I was raised (and by whom), I would tend to fill in "Miss" for a woman younger than me, "Ma'am" for a woman roughly the same age or older than me. I will tend to use "Ms. ____" to refer to any woman whose preferred surname I already know, regardless of any marital status. But it would take a ton of retraining to bring myself to use "Ms." in the "Excuse Me, ___" scenario.

MOO
 
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