Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #64

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Mr Archibald repeatedly referred to his client Lori Vallow Daybell as ‘mentally ill’ and how she may actually be watching these hearings from the mental hospital. If one listened to just his statements today they may think that she has really been in the hospital - and not receiving treatment while in the detention center - which I would find even more interesting considering how often @SleuthD-o-doubleg reported to us seeing them both (their vehicles) there. Obviously he’s careful with his words for these public hearings but I just found that interesting.

and regardless of what one may feel about Lori’s innocence or guilt, and removing Means from the picture, Archibald did seem (in my opinion) to have a concern about how she was going to find out he was removed from the case, how she was going to react to that news, and having whatever time she needs to adjust to that news all while being, as he kept saying, ‘mentally ill’. I don’t like any of what she has done or what she has been accused of, but I can still appreciate this attorney seems to have her best interests in mind.

If Lori truly found out about Means being removed today - while she was watching another one of the YouTube livestreams - I can only imagine what that may cause in her restorative treatment and how that may affect the timeline(s) of this case even more.
 
As of today our families long line of holiday festivities should be wrapped up.

I did have some errands to run yesterday in town and only saw JA at the women’s detention center. Not sure what to make of JA referring to LVD being at a hospital. It certainly is possible but without actual inside information to go on, I can only confirm what I see.

We do have one errand to run later and will update again for again today.

All jmo moo imo
 
Sorry to just jump in, I’ve seen the posts about MM and Archibald at the detention center.
I’m currently in Rexburg, actually grew up here.
In the past Blackfoot south was where people like LVD were sent, I’m not understanding why she would be at the detention center here and not Blackfoot South.
Can anyone inform me if they know? TIA
 
What are everyone's thoughts on MM potentially making himself a witness.

What impact will that have on the strategy of the prosecution as well as JP?

What's JP thinking right now?

I'm surprised it's taken this long but I'm happy LV will get qualified counsel
 
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MM was nothing more than a time-waster, a distraction, and a side show. There have been many sealed, behind-the-scenes meetings and JP is no dummy so I'd guess he's up to speed with what was going on. He's always wanted the cases severed and as long as LVD stays "incompetent" he'll get that so I wouldn't think he'd change any strategy at this point. What will be interesting is if LVD is suddenly deemed to be competent or will be at some time soon now that MM is out of the picture.
 
pizzaman12 said:
What are everyone's thoughts on MM potentially making himself a witness.

What impact will that have on the strategy of the prosecution as well as JP?

What's JP thinking right now?

I'm surprised it's taken this long but I'm happy LV will get qualified counsel
Click to expand...

I’m looking forward to hearing more legal perspectives on this but one piece of the Court’s Order I found interesting was about Means possibly making himself a material witness….I immediately thought way back when we had the hearings about alleged prosecutorial misconduct and Wood inserting himself into the case. And how, at that time, the Court had said that these types of ethical guidelines and rules are not governed by the Court but rather by the Bar, and the Court is very limited in what they could even do IF they even agreed there were some misconduct that had occurred by the prosecution. Wood didn’t make himself a witness, the Court said they couldn’t determine things like that anyways, and now the Court is not only looking at the possibility of Means inserting himself into the case but also seeming to lean much more towards that he did make himself a potential witness through his pleadings and actions in this case…..I just find all of that very, very interesting.

this may be a wildly unpopular opinion so I hope it is OK to still share, but I don’t think removing Means is some kind of slam dunk win for the State, or for anyone. I got a sense from this morning that Archibald had a least some base level concern about how Lori was going to learn of this news, if she had already learned this news, etc (they seemed pretty blindsided by the late in the day Order yesterday but that’s just my opinion).

if anyone else joins Archibald now I am sure they will be much more experienced and seeing how the State has fumbled a few things thus far (again, JMOO) like very late Discovery, “not opposed to change of venue” but not going to formally object to moving it, spending time and resources on fighting the change of venue they said they’re not against but won’t just agree to let the Court move it, sheriff and prosecutor using their own social media to post about the missing children, etc. I think - if there is any big effect from of all this - if Lori ever goes to trial she will have a much more experienced team ready to vigorously defend her.

And this rambling didn’t even get me to the previous Judge Eddins accepting their waiver of conflict of interest by Means (yes, for very limited circumstances and scope) but now this new Judge and Court questioning the validity of all that. It’s really fascinating to me. I don’t think Archibald is going to fight to have Means back on, nor is Means going to fight it himself, but with just some of the parallels I tried to explain above (like the Court previously saying they cannot determine or rule upon actions taken by attorneys on a case and if they’re making themselves a material witness and only now saying not only can they decide that, they can then make big decisions, like removing an attorney based of if those conclusions they said they previously were for the State Bar). Very interesting (but maybe just to me )
 
SleuthD-o-doubleg said:
As of today our families long line of holiday festivities should be wrapped up.

I did have some errands to run yesterday in town and only saw JA at the women’s detention center. Not sure what to make of JA referring to LVD being at a hospital. It certainly is possible but without actual inside information to go on, I can only confirm what I see.

We do have one errand to run later and will update again for again today.

All jmo moo imo
Click to expand...
You are the best. TY!
 
MTW2011 said:
this may be a wildly unpopular opinion so I hope it is OK to still share, but I don’t think removing Means is some kind of slam dunk win for the State, or for anyone. I got a sense from this morning that Archibald had a least some base level concern about how Lori was going to learn of this news, if she had already learned this news, etc (they seemed pretty blindsided by the late in the day Order yesterday but that’s just my opinion).

if anyone else joins Archibald now I am sure they will be much more experienced and seeing how the State has fumbled a few things thus far (again, JMOO) like very late Discovery, “not opposed to change of venue” but not going to formally object to moving it, spending time and resources on fighting the change of venue they said they’re not against but won’t just agree to let the Court move it, sheriff and prosecutor using their own social media to post about the missing children, etc. I think - if there is any big effect from of all this - if Lori ever goes to trial she will have a much more experienced team ready to vigorously defend her.
Click to expand...

Snipped and BBM

I don't know why that would be an unpopular opinion. This without a doubt makes it more difficult on the state. I think the appeals is why the state wanted wanted him off the case, not because they were worried he was better than who LV would end up with.

I don't have any personal issues with MM but I believe LV deserves a qualified and competent counsel and he is simply out of his league. That's not a dig at him. He simply doesn't have the experience and expertise for this case. Take Scott Reisch out of the mix and still every legal expert I've listened to has been amazed/baffled by the filings and has questioned his basic knowledge of criminal law. Most have been questioning why he hadn't been removed as long as I can remember. There is zero chance JA and anyone that is added will be less competent which instantly makes it more difficult for the state.

I haven't been impressed by the state and RW needs to get his act together. He appears to be getting sloppier and he could use a course on etiquette. I mentioned it after the Dec. 2nd hearing. Sit up straight and speak clearly as if you didn't just wake up from a nap.
 
MTW2011 said:
I’m looking forward to hearing more legal perspectives on this but one piece of the Court’s Order I found interesting was about Means possibly making himself a material witness….I immediately thought way back when we had the hearings about alleged prosecutorial misconduct and Wood inserting himself into the case. And how, at that time, the Court had said that these types of ethical guidelines and rules are not governed by the Court but rather by the Bar, and the Court is very limited in what they could even do IF they even agreed there were some misconduct that had occurred by the prosecution. Wood didn’t make himself a witness, the Court said they couldn’t determine things like that anyways, and now the Court is not only looking at the possibility of Means inserting himself into the case but also seeming to lean much more towards that he did make himself a potential witness through his pleadings and actions in this case…..I just find all of that very, very interesting.
Click to expand...

I've haven't seen the entire 17-page document but I don't think these scenarios are the same (plus there appears to be numerous reasons in regards to the MM decision), however I'm wrong all the time.
 
MTW2011 said:
Mr Archibald repeatedly referred to his client Lori Vallow Daybell as ‘mentally ill’ and how she may actually be watching these hearings from the mental hospital. If one listened to just his statements today they may think that she has really been in the hospital - and not receiving treatment while in the detention center - which I would find even more interesting considering how often @SleuthD-o-doubleg reported to us seeing them both (their vehicles) there. Obviously he’s careful with his words for these public hearings but I just found that interesting.

and regardless of what one may feel about Lori’s innocence or guilt, and removing Means from the picture, Archibald did seem (in my opinion) to have a concern about how she was going to find out he was removed from the case, how she was going to react to that news, and having whatever time she needs to adjust to that news all while being, as he kept saying, ‘mentally ill’. I don’t like any of what she has done or what she has been accused of, but I can still appreciate this attorney seems to have her best interests in mind.

If Lori truly found out about Means being removed today - while she was watching another one of the YouTube livestreams - I can only imagine what that may cause in her restorative treatment and how that may affect the timeline(s) of this case even more.
Click to expand...


I vaguely recall a MSM article with a co inmate as a source indicating that Lori paid close attention to herself on TV. So, that would suggest she has access to television from the jail, if that is where she is.

MOO MOO
 
Gardenista said:
Justin Lum - Reporter
18m ·

Today’s hearings in the Vallow case are related to subpoenas filed by Mark Means. He wanted communication records between Dept. Of Health, prosecutors & LDS church. I’m told hearings for motions to modify subpoenas filed by State & LDS church are still on, despite Means DQ’d.
Here is the motion to quash or modify subpoena filed by law firm representing the church. Means claimed that Lori Vallow was manipulated by an IDHW clinician to call a lawyer who represented LDS church.
2b07.png

http://coi.isc.idaho.gov/.../120221Memorandum%20ISO...
I’ve listed times for hearings below as well.
youtube.com/channel/UCVJS0dOHzBiX0oFrHS8XoVw
Click to expand...
BBM

Claiming that Lori, the queen of manipulation, was manipulated by anyone is the ultimate irony. Didn’t she initiate the call?

I join in all of the happy dances over MM’s disqualification. MM staying on the case through trial would have given Lori a gift wrapped appeal issue.
 
Ruminations said:
I vaguely recall a MSM article with a co inmate as a source indicating that Lori paid close attention to herself on TV. So, that would suggest she has access to television from the jail, if that is where she is.

MOO MOO
Click to expand...

I recall (as I had saved it when I first saw it) a local woman who had been in the same women’s detention center several times, she had posted part of her story online [I did not see it on this forum yet though]. She said the common areas have TVs which get local channels/basic cable but nothing like a smartTV with Roku or Amazon Fire TV or any other streaming thing….which I think would be one of the only ways you could watch the hearings online; I’m not sure if they are broadcast locally, I have no idea on that. I’ve often believed she was getting treatment at the detention center, especially with how many times the attorneys appeared there, but when Archibald mentioned the hospital today I was not sure if he was trying to be very precise and careful with his wording or if he meant that she is really in the hospital and not the jail. Maybe we will know for sure one day
 
MTW2011 said:
I’m looking forward to hearing more legal perspectives on this but one piece of the Court’s Order I found interesting was about Means possibly making himself a material witness….I immediately thought way back when we had the hearings about alleged prosecutorial misconduct and Wood inserting himself into the case. And how, at that time, the Court had said that these types of ethical guidelines and rules are not governed by the Court but rather by the Bar, and the Court is very limited in what they could even do IF they even agreed there were some misconduct that had occurred by the prosecution. Wood didn’t make himself a witness, the Court said they couldn’t determine things like that anyways, and now the Court is not only looking at the possibility of Means inserting himself into the case but also seeming to lean much more towards that he did make himself a potential witness through his pleadings and actions in this case…..I just find all of that very, very interesting.

this may be a wildly unpopular opinion so I hope it is OK to still share, but I don’t think removing Means is some kind of slam dunk win for the State, or for anyone. I got a sense from this morning that Archibald had a least some base level concern about how Lori was going to learn of this news, if she had already learned this news, etc (they seemed pretty blindsided by the late in the day Order yesterday but that’s just my opinion).

if anyone else joins Archibald now I am sure they will be much more experienced and seeing how the State has fumbled a few things thus far (again, JMOO) like very late Discovery, “not opposed to change of venue” but not going to formally object to moving it, spending time and resources on fighting the change of venue they said they’re not against but won’t just agree to let the Court move it, sheriff and prosecutor using their own social media to post about the missing children, etc. I think - if there is any big effect from of all this - if Lori ever goes to trial she will have a much more experienced team ready to vigorously defend her.

And this rambling didn’t even get me to the previous Judge Eddins accepting their waiver of conflict of interest by Means (yes, for very limited circumstances and scope) but now this new Judge and Court questioning the validity of all that. It’s really fascinating to me. I don’t think Archibald is going to fight to have Means back on, nor is Means going to fight it himself, but with just some of the parallels I tried to explain above (like the Court previously saying they cannot determine or rule upon actions taken by attorneys on a case and if they’re making themselves a material witness and only now saying not only can they decide that, they can then make big decisions, like removing an attorney based of if those conclusions they said they previously were for the State Bar). Very interesting (but maybe just to me )
Click to expand...

I agree with you and you list many valid points!
 
Mr Archibald seems all business to me. tbh I rather liked how he referred to LV as mentally ill, no wordsmithing there just facts. IMO MM seemed way too invested in the case for someone who does this for a job. I kept saying to myself dude its a client not a family member, what is this a personal crusade for you? I get the feeling we are not going to get the same from Mr Archibald. Guess we are all about to find out.
 
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