Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #58

[Boxer]

I got the idea from Zac (backing up April Raymond on the ‘prepper’ aspect, by the bye), that Lori got into the podcasts and books through her interest in prepping. At one point Zac confirms that Lori was into prepping for serious, and had mad pantry type supplies at her and Charles’s house. No word on what happened to the supplies or her interest in them afterwards, as Justin did not ask. I’m sure she didn’t tote them from place to place with her. Maybe her interest ebbed and waned as her mind moved onto the next quirk.

MOO Stockpiling is a lot of work and the stuff is heavy.
A more mental picture of her beautiful self floating above the end of humans is much less work.

 

[lake daze]

My nephew was murdered by his 21 year old son a few years ago. My nephew and his wife had tried for years to get mental health help for the boy, without much success. He was diagnosed as schizophrenic right before he shot his father. The son is serving a 30 year sentence in the psychiatric ward of a prison at this time. He was charged with voluntary manslaughter after shooting his dad multiple times. He was obviously a very sick young man, and he still doesn't comprehend what he did.

This kid would not have worried about finding lipstick for a court appearance, he wouldn't have been able to make travel arrangements, or joke about his bail and if his body was worth "a million dollars" like Lori was said to do. She is not schizophrenic in my opinion. She shows none of the behaviors I've seen in truly mentally ill people. I'm not buying this stall tactic for one minute.
Edited because I typed involuntary instead of voluntary.

 

[watergirl62]

Respectfully, I didn't write that she had been found LEGALLY incompetent.

For the time being; however, that IS how the judge is treating this. Upon receiving the determination by a qualified professional that LVD is not competent at the present time to proceed and needs restorative treatment, the judge issued an order that all proceedings involving LVD are stayed.

That means that for the time being, the proceedings stop. It does NOT necessarily mean they stop until that original qualified professional deems LVD competent, but it does mean they stop until the judge becomes satisfied in her competency, however that will happen (e.g., treatment which improves her condition, opinions of another qualified professional, opinions of multiple qualified professionals).

And now, more importantly - because their proceedings are not severed, which means they are being tried together - there is a developing potential conflict between LVD's need to take time for treatment to restore mental competency and CD's right to a speedy trial. Since this was originally brought up March 8, over two months have already passed with this existing conflict and it remains to be seen what CD's attorney will do and what the State will do to resolve it.

ETA: For the record, I think this all smells very "slippin' Jimmy-ish." (Better Call Saul reference). Someone here posted that JP was grinning after they all came out of the March 8 breakout sessions where this issue first came up. Are the attorneys working together to get the proceedings separated so each of the two defendants is tried independently and each can point to the other as the guilty party that manipulated the other?

This certainly explains Prior's smile back in March. Pretty sure he wants severance from Lori and all the baggage she brings with her. Then he can spin his defense around the premise that Chad was lured by the Siren. There is plenty of evidence out there to support her ability to disarm men, and women too (like MG).

 

[indicolite22]

This certainly explains Prior's smile back in March. Pretty sure he wants severance from Lori and all the baggage she brings with her. Then he can spin his defense around the premise that Chad was lured by the Siren. There is plenty of evidence out there to support her ability to disarm men, and women too (like MG).

Evidence is also stacked against Chad. For start, who made up all the light/dark ratings, previous marriages and zombie names?

 

[Diddian]

Thinking back over the course this case has taken from shortly after LVD was arrested and extradited from Hawaii.

Initially, LVD had three attorneys - Brian Webb, Edwina Elcox, and Mark Means. During a hearing held by phone on March 13, 2020, then presiding Judge Eddins agreed to remove himself from the case as requested in a motion by Means. In that same hearing, Brian Webb announced that he and Edwina Elcox would be withdrawing from the case and they could not disclose the reasons as those were privileged client communications.

This was three months before the children's bodies were found and removed from Chad's rural property.

Given the latest development, I have to ask whether there were clear indications of issues with mental competency at that time and if that is why the other two attorneys withdrew. And if so, what are the ethics of the remaining sole legal representative continuing to offer what appears to have been near daily counsel (much more than typically observed) to that client when in fact what she needs is mental health treatment?

An attorney is not a substitute for a mental health professional and as the clock has been ticking away without LVD receiving treatment, and as LVD has reportedly been continuing to feed her delusions by reading CD's books in her cell, CD - the other primary defendant has been preparing his defense with his own counsel.

 

[887sMtreme]

How is it legal to switch accounts to be paid into.

Tyler was a minor. LV had that control.

 

[887sMtreme]

Snipped for focus

An attorney is not a substitute for a mental health professional and as the clock has been ticking away without LVD receiving treatment, and as LVD has reportedly been continuing to feed her delusions by reading CD's books in her cell, CD - the other primary defendant has been preparing his defense with his own counsel.

I’ve been wondering if MM has been at the jail to observe psychological interviews, etc.

 

[shotgun09]

While watching the court appearances the other day, and subsequent information regarding LVD...it surprises me zero that Lori is now attempting to disappear into the 'Portal of Incompetence' while CD ( and Prior ) are grinning like a Cheshire cat. Chad has the goods, Lori is going down....
Not at all claiming CD is innocent...just that LVD is the instigator. She is some twisted sinister sister!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

In the opinion of the former Idaho AG, "this case has clearly had mental health involved from the start".

MOO Save that chit... for sentencing phase! Has NOTHING MOO as to the courts finding her guilty in this state where it is being tried.

Aren't most murderers and folks who kill and dismember etc... not of right mind?

*thinking back to James Jones KoolAid etc*

 

[indicolite22]

Tyler was a minor. LV had that control.

Was Tylee aware of the transfer? Did she have another account? Lori was found in Hawaii with Tylee's bank card.

 

[Nosurprise]

This article had some interesting bits about Lori and competence: After 2 major developments in case against Lori Vallow Daybell, what's next?

A licensed clinical psychologist assessed Vallow Daybell in March and found her not competent to proceed with the case. In a rare move, prosecutors contested that finding.

"I have not, in a mere 49 years of practicing law as a prosecutor and defense lawyer, seen a prosecutor object to this kind of finding and this kind of report,” said Dave Leroy, a former Idaho attorney general, former Idaho lieutenant governor, and current private lawyer.

...

During the psychological assessment, they would have looked to see if Vallow Daybell was aware of her surroundings, could examine the facts of the case, and help her lawyer prepare for trial.

"Someplace in that mental process, according to the psychologist, Ms. Vallow has broken down in terms of assisting her lawyer in preparing for trial,” said Leroy.

...

Leroy said one of the reasons it’s not typical to contest the 90-day rehabilitation period is because setting the new hearing to contest the findings can take just as long. At that hearing, the state will be able to cross-examine the psychologist and bring in other evidence, which could mean another psychologist's report.

Remember, that state expert will not have direct access to Lori Vallow. And remember that the psychologist who did have that access was from the state Department of Health and Welfare; it wasn't somebody chosen by the defense," Leroy said.

Leroy pointed out that there are some ethical issues that come up when a mental health professional gives opinions about someone they have not personally interviewed, and it’s not likely the prosecution would give another expert access to her.

...

Leroy expects the judge will set the new hearing in the next 30 days or so. For now, Vallow Daybell will be transferred to a state mental health facility.

More at link.

What if Lori refuses to take medication, if that is what will be done? Do they force her in some way? Or just ok, we will try tomorrow..?

 

[MdlAgedCatLady]

What really got me about the Zac Cox interview was around 26:30 when he started talking about the last time he saw Tylee. He felt Tylee wanted to speak to him after Charles' death but Janice Cox guided her away from him. That just broke my heart. Zac gave an exceptional interview that gave tremendous insight into the Cox family dynamic and what appears to be Lori's increasing fanaticism, IMO. So glad he was willing to open up to Justin Lum about his perception of what happened around that time period.

 

[Inthedetails]

whether that is the kind of thing that fits a mental health diagnosis more closely than it does a con or coverup, I leave to the mental health professionals to decide.

snipped

My hunch this is going to come down to religion. In a nation where we are free to believe what we want, when is a belief so delusional that someone can't face legal charges until cured of those delusions?

Her actions cannot be excused based on beliefs of zombies, but if she truly thinks she is a goddess and killing zombies is her mission, is she competent to legally face charges? Or is she delusional?

Has she been faking her beliefs from the start? Seems like she went into the podcasts and books phase as a willing believer and confident zealot, not as a con. Did it switch to a con...or does she still believe?

To me, this is where the incompentency issue is. It's not going to be easy to figure out, imo. If she truly believes the zombie, goddesss, etc stuff, then she is fully prepared to be challenged by outside spirits and she is prepared to stand her ground. Is that a sign of competence or not?

Can you cure stubborn faith?

jmo

 

[indicolite22]

While watching the court appearances the other day, and subsequent information regarding LVD...it surprises me zero that Lori is now attempting to disappear into the 'Portal of Incompetence' while CD ( and Prior ) are grinning like a Cheshire cat. Chad has the goods, Lori is going down....
Not at all claiming CD is innocent...just that LVD is the instigator. She is some twisted sinister sister!

Perhaps Lori is trying to save face in front of her family. It wasn't her fault that she killed her own children, it was due to a mental illness.

The prosecutor thinks that Chad was the instigator and the one pulling the strings.

 

[887sMtreme]

MOO It wasn't clear to the Chandler Police.

To those outside that culture, Lori’s behavior and statements, she sounds schizophrenic. Remember there’s a culture there which accepts visions as a legitimate (and saintly) aspect of one’s religious faith, so might not seem alarming at all.

 

[lonetraveler]

I give the mental health community (and men in general) a little more respect than that.




Great post from *you* What do you think about the likelihood that MM has found LV to be an incompetent client? If it’s true she is engaged in letter-writing to Chad, reading his books, spouting scripture, singing, dancing, et al., is it possible he can’t even get through to her? That could be why he seems to be spending so much time at the detention center — which by the way tells us, presumably, that she’s there and not under psychiatric care at a hospital.

Lori has been manipulating men for most of her life. Her many husbands and I can't get past the police officers who showed up at Charles' murder.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think many of us are looking at Lori's behavior from our mentally-healthy point of view. We wonder if she is a con or motivated by greed and lust - concepts we can understand from a mentaly healthy point of view.

Some of us have experience with mental illness, either personally or with family members, and are looking at Lori from that point of view. She might not be displaying what people recognize as authentic mental illness.

But I think what we need to do is look at her behavior from a cult point of view. That's a whole 'nother view point, imo (I'm no expert!). She is calm in face of horrendous things - Charles was killed and she was joking, her children were missing and she insisted they were safe in a calm and non-defensive tone. She is calm because it's all part of her spiritual world, and what this earthly, unbelieving world condemns doesn't matter.

She doesn't see the world as either a mentally healthy person or as a mentally-ill person, but as a cult member with a specific world view.

The question is, is her world view so delusional she is legally incompetent?

jmo

 

[887sMtreme]

Perhaps Lori is trying to save face in front of her family. It wasn't her fault that she killed her own children, it was due to a mental illness.

The prosecutor thinks that Chad was the instigator and the one pulling the strings.

Too bad for Lori that Idaho is not a state that recognizes mental illness/insanity as a defense.

 

[lonetraveler]

Since LV’s trial in Idaho is apparently on indefinite hold, perhaps now would be a good time for AZ to extradite her and conduct their own psychological evaluation of fitness. Perhaps given by the AZ psychologists who not long ago found Lori’s mind to be absolutely fine.

I personally enjoy the thought of Lori incarcerated 1000 miles away from Chad, declared competent and being represented by a lawyer who has no interest in holding her hand all day every day.

I hope that the psychologists in Arizona are consulted about their findings during this 'restorative treatment' and evaluation.

 

[lonetraveler]

Interview Justin Lum did with Zac Cox, Adam’s boy. I’ve not had time to listen to it yet.

Listening to it now. Very interesting.