Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #58

[dixiegirl1035]

The prosecution clearly needs Janine DeMarte (prosecution psychologist in the Arias trial) to deconstruct the Vallow nonsense.

Bravo! She was fabulous exposing the bs.

 

[CSIDreamer]

It’s not what happened then. It’s pretty obvious she was competent back then. The question is right now. Can she assist counsel in preparation for the trial and trial itself. Does she understand right now what she’s charged with or has she had a breakdown while she was being held and now is not functioning?

I'm glad someone else gets it. JMO

It has nothing to do with past actions or her hair lol.

 

[indicolite22]

This article had some interesting bits about Lori and competence: After 2 major developments in case against Lori Vallow Daybell, what's next?

A licensed clinical psychologist assessed Vallow Daybell in March and found her not competent to proceed with the case. In a rare move, prosecutors contested that finding.

"I have not, in a mere 49 years of practicing law as a prosecutor and defense lawyer, seen a prosecutor object to this kind of finding and this kind of report,” said Dave Leroy, a former Idaho attorney general, former Idaho lieutenant governor, and current private lawyer.

...

During the psychological assessment, they would have looked to see if Vallow Daybell was aware of her surroundings, could examine the facts of the case, and help her lawyer prepare for trial.

"Someplace in that mental process, according to the psychologist, Ms. Vallow has broken down in terms of assisting her lawyer in preparing for trial,” said Leroy.

...

Leroy said one of the reasons it’s not typical to contest the 90-day rehabilitation period is because setting the new hearing to contest the findings can take just as long. At that hearing, the state will be able to cross-examine the psychologist and bring in other evidence, which could mean another psychologist's report.

Remember, that state expert will not have direct access to Lori Vallow. And remember that the psychologist who did have that access was from the state Department of Health and Welfare; it wasn't somebody chosen by the defense," Leroy said.

Leroy pointed out that there are some ethical issues that come up when a mental health professional gives opinions about someone they have not personally interviewed, and it’s not likely the prosecution would give another expert access to her.

...

Leroy expects the judge will set the new hearing in the next 30 days or so. For now, Vallow Daybell will be transferred to a state mental health facility.

More at link.

In the opinion of the former Idaho AG, "this case has clearly had mental health involved from the start".

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Interview Justin Lum did with Zac Cox, Adam’s boy. I’ve not had time to listen to it yet.

This interview with Zac Cox, Lori's nephew is AMAZING.... He was living with Lori and Charles around the time of the murder of Charles....

His information provides such a personal perspective.........

From the beginning, The "Cox Family" has held so many of the cards.....
I am sure her father is helping carve out this insanity issue....
I feel myself getting angrier and angrier... again.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM I also want to reassure folks that a forensic psychiatric commitment to restore competency to stand trial is in a facility typically operated by the state for that purpose, it is NOT in a regular psychiatric hospital. Everybody is facing charges or has become too psychiatrically ill to be cared for in prison, because psychiatric care is routinely available in regular prisons for criminals with co-morbid mental illnesses. A forensic unit is VERY secure and probably pretty unpleasant given that the population is acutely seriously psychiatrically ill. Better than death row, but worse than the county jail for sure.

I cannot imagine Lori in a TRUE place for those that are incompetent, and not able to stand for trial. A movie, one of my favorites from all times, comes to mind that is my only reference (out of respect for mentally ill, I won't go into such and diminish those with TRUE illnesses such as schizophrenia...)

 

[Inthedetails]

She knows what she is charged with. This is criminal manipulation at it's finest.

I agree that she knows what she is charged with and I suspect she welcomes the charges....because she's a goddess and her divinity is above all earthly laws.

Their doomsday cult ideas are what kicked all of this off and I think she is sticking with those ideas. Whether or not she ACTUALLY believes them, I don't know. If she does actually believe them, I can see how she would be declared imcompent to defend herself....because she doesn't think she did anything wrong and perhaps WELCOMES persecution. The charges might be what she thinks is needed to make their prophesies come true.

I don't think she cares one way or the other if she is declared imcompetent - as a goddess, she is above those petty decisions. She believes she's on superior realm (or is convincingly pretending she believes that).

jmo at the moment, subject to change as we learn more

 

[Boxer]

In the opinion of the former Idaho AG, "this case has clearly had mental health involved from the start".

MOO It wasn't clear to the Chandler Police.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Important emendation on the last sentence I think: Zac said they were specifically afraid that Alex and/or Lori would show up to kill them; which is worth stressing due to the nightmarish switch it illustrates in their previous mostly normal relationships with each other; and I do mean this as the stuff of literal nightmares.

Other additional information: Zac said that he believes Lori, while at Barry and Janis's house, had access to Charles' unlocked cell phone for multiple days; and that Lori most likely merrily deleted multiple items off said cell phone which she wanted to conceal (I think Kay has previously admitted that Charles never locked said phone, as well as telling a similar story. I am unclear as to whether or not Kay and Zac ever met in order to consult and piece these two stories together). This also enabled Lori et al to snoop at length through Charles' phone discovering the text message exchanges between Charles, Zac, AdC and Brandon "conspiring against her", which so enraged her. He also seemed to have pretty good assurance that Melani P.-then-B. read Brandon's texts on the same topics as well (the hinted context seemed to imply this might be some sort of spousal accountability doohickey on Mel's part); and that these were the referenced communications Lori would later cast up to Rexburg LE as the "my brother (AdC) wanting to kill me for my life insurance". (Zac assures Justin that neither he nor Adam have any idea if there are any insurance policies on Lori's life; and points out that this is yet another instance of Lori flipping "things I am doing to Charles" into "things Charles is doing to me".)

Also more information for the WS timeline @ about 50 seconds in! In this interview with Lum, Zax says that he lived with Lori and Charles

From jan 2018 to may 2018

then went home for the summer

and came back to Arizona " Septemberish 2018"

and lived with Lori until Jan 2019 "until things really picked up and snapped off with Charles"

@Tortoise

 

[Boxer]

IMO faced with 4 walls forever she just kept going over and over that vision of being superior to everyone else on earth, except for 139,999 other superior people, who also shed their earthly encumberments, like children and spouses to prepare for a couples heaven.

Clinging to that grifting lie to the extent of a pretty good facsimile of organic illness.
MOO, bad character to the extreme is not mental illness, but can look just like it.

 

[Inthedetails]

This interview with Zac Cox, Lori's nephew is AMAZING.... He was living with Lori and Charles around the time of the murder of Charles....

His information provides such a personal perspective.........

From the beginning, The "Cox Family" has held so many of the cards.....
I am sure her father is helping carve out this insanity issue....
I feel myself getting angrier and angrier... again.

I'm curious how Lori got into the podcasts and books.

jmo

 

[Boxer]

I'm curious how Lori got into the podcasts and books.

jmo

Interesting question.

 

[indicolite22]

This interview with Zac Cox, Lori's nephew is AMAZING.... He was living with Lori and Charles around the time of the murder of Charles...

He said that he lived with them until the end of January 2019 when Lori accused Charles of being Nick Schneider. Later he was staying with other relatives, including his grandparents, SS and BB & MBP.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Also more information for the WS timeline @ about 50 seconds in! In this interview with Lum, Zax says that he lived with Lori and Charles

From jan 2018 to may 2018

then went home for the summer

and came back to Arizona " Septemberish 2018"

and lived with Lori until Jan 2019 "until things really picked up and snapped off with Charles"

@Tortoise

he also provided a bit of clarity insofar as he said that while Charles was paying for the Chandler residence, Lori was not always clinging to it like a leech but was in fact spending some time living in Houston with Charles at his place. He doesn’t say for how consecutively long a time or if it was wholly in fits and starts; and he doesn’t mention whether or not Tylee and JJ stayed with Lori in Houston, though one would at least assume that JJ did for part of the time.

Takeaway: they were not wholly estranged; and it’s also possible that Charles was forming some of his impressions of Lori’s current state by spending time personally with her, and was not getting all of his evaluations from emails and phone calls.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I agree that she knows what she is charged with and I suspect she welcomes the charges....because she's a goddess and her divinity is above all earthly laws.

Their doomsday cult ideas are what kicked all of this off and I think she is sticking with those ideas. Whether or not she ACTUALLY believes them, I don't know. If she does actually believe them, I can see how she would be declared imcompent to defend herself....because she doesn't think she did anything wrong and perhaps WELCOMES persecution. The charges might be what she thinks is needed to make their prophesies come true.

I don't think she cares one way or the other if she is declared imcompetent - as a goddess, she is above those petty decisions. She believes she's on superior realm (or is convincingly pretending she believes that).

jmo at the moment, subject to change as we learn more

in his interview Zac also said that at one point Lori told Charles and perhaps others, that she was beyond needing to eat or evacuate for the same reasons, lol.

now, how Lori believes this or could expect anyone else to believe this, when she was almost assuredly eating and excreting near-simultaneously, I have no idea. whether that is the kind of thing that fits a mental health diagnosis more closely than it does a con or coverup, I leave to the mental health professionals to decide. It could very well be something like the vampire novels with protagonists who blather on about not NEEDING to do these things and doing them just to appear normal; vs. a type of situation where Lori has convinced herself that she really doesn’t need these basic bodily functions.

I also note that it sounds kind of like the cousin to Melani’s deceased mother Stacey’s peccadilloes, doesn’t it?

 

[ReadySet]

Interesting, but I also always remind myself that Dave Leroy is a defense attorney now. He's always asked his opinion on these Idaho cases, and always speaks from the point of view of the defense.
Jmo

This article had some interesting bits about Lori and competence: After 2 major developments in case against Lori Vallow Daybell, what's next?

A licensed clinical psychologist assessed Vallow Daybell in March and found her not competent to proceed with the case. In a rare move, prosecutors contested that finding.

"I have not, in a mere 49 years of practicing law as a prosecutor and defense lawyer, seen a prosecutor object to this kind of finding and this kind of report,” said Dave Leroy, a former Idaho attorney general, former Idaho lieutenant governor, and current private lawyer.

...

During the psychological assessment, they would have looked to see if Vallow Daybell was aware of her surroundings, could examine the facts of the case, and help her lawyer prepare for trial.

"Someplace in that mental process, according to the psychologist, Ms. Vallow has broken down in terms of assisting her lawyer in preparing for trial,” said Leroy.

...

Leroy said one of the reasons it’s not typical to contest the 90-day rehabilitation period is because setting the new hearing to contest the findings can take just as long. At that hearing, the state will be able to cross-examine the psychologist and bring in other evidence, which could mean another psychologist's report.

Remember, that state expert will not have direct access to Lori Vallow. And remember that the psychologist who did have that access was from the state Department of Health and Welfare; it wasn't somebody chosen by the defense," Leroy said.

Leroy pointed out that there are some ethical issues that come up when a mental health professional gives opinions about someone they have not personally interviewed, and it’s not likely the prosecution would give another expert access to her.

...

Leroy expects the judge will set the new hearing in the next 30 days or so. For now, Vallow Daybell will be transferred to a state mental health facility.

More at link.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I'm curious how Lori got into the podcasts and books.

jmo

I got the idea from Zac (backing up April Raymond on the ‘prepper’ aspect, by the bye), that Lori got into the podcasts and books through her interest in prepping. At one point Zac confirms that Lori was into prepping for serious, and had mad pantry type supplies at her and Charles’s house. No word on what happened to the supplies or her interest in them afterwards, as Justin did not ask. I’m sure she didn’t tote them from place to place with her. Maybe her interest ebbed and waned as her mind moved onto the next quirk.

 

[pizzaman12]

What will be held in front of Judge Eddins and what in front of Boyce?

 

[Boxer]

I got the idea from Zac (backing up April Raymond on the ‘prepper’ aspect, by the bye), that Lori got into the podcasts and books through her interest in prepping. At one point Zac confirms that Lori was into prepping for serious, and had mad pantry type supplies at her and Charles’s house. No word on what happened to the supplies or her interest in them afterwards, as Justin did not ask. I’m sure she didn’t tote them from place to place with her. Maybe her interest ebbed and waned as her mind moved onto the next quirk.

Peppers. Does make sense, hoarding and stockpiling probably do lead to exposure to crazy literature and podcasts.

 

[MrDRC]

There are quite a few new details in that video. For example, every Lori's family member except for Adam and Zac was on Lori's side before AND after Charles was killed. Tylee wasn't allowed to speak to Zac afterwards. MBP was monitoring BB's phone before that to prevent contact with Charles. Charles asked Adam to record Lori's crazy beliefs and give the recording to her bishop so she would get excommunicated and lose temple access (she was spending 8 hours a day there). Charles believed that it would make her snap out of it. Adam came to town for that a day before the murder. He and Zac learned about Charles' death from a news article after being unable to reach him on his phone for two days. They were afraid for their own lives while staying with SS. After what happened to Charles, they believed they could be next.

Alex was into podcasts and Chad's books as well. He offered Zac $100 to read one of Chad's books. Once Alex told their bishop that Lori saw Jesus in person and Lori got mad at him for that.

YES! This is pure gold and well worth the listen. Tons of insight to help understand the nuances and family dynamics of the Cox's. Zac is a very well put together young man despite being influenced by some seriously dysfunctional members of his family. REALLY REALLY good stuff. Thanks for prompting me to listen! Cheers...

Edit: I posted before finishing the video and the last part is absolutely heart breaking. When he's addressing his interaction with Tylee he can barely hold it together. I've got tears running down my cheeks too, I'm right there with him. I would not be able to watch that part again.

 

[Boxer]

I got the idea from Zac (backing up April Raymond on the ‘prepper’ aspect, by the bye), that Lori got into the podcasts and books through her interest in prepping. At one point Zac confirms that Lori was into prepping for serious, and had mad pantry type supplies at her and Charles’s house. No word on what happened to the supplies or her interest in them afterwards, as Justin did not ask. I’m sure she didn’t tote them from place to place with her. Maybe her interest ebbed and waned as her mind moved onto the next quirk.

MOO Stockpiling is a lot of work and the stuff is heavy.
A more mental picture of her beautiful self floating above the end of humans is much less work.