Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #58

[mickey2942]

Please forgive if previously posted but I found this distinction (specific to Idaho) very informative:
Insanity in the State of Idaho (apa.org)

ETA: This case (precedent) in Idaho would specifically outline how LVD's actions and comments to witnesses in the case would not qualify her for an exception. She told people her children had turned into Zombies (who were later terminated).

Then, how does she explain lying to the police? If she truly believed she killed her children because they were "zombies", why not tell this to the police? Why tell people all of these stories? That Kay was trying to take JJ? That Tylee was at school? That JJ was in Arizona with friends? And she wanted MG to lie to the police regarding JJ?

That they are "safe". Why take copies of their birth certificates to Hawaii? Why continue to cash the Social Security checks and spend the money? Why change the deposit of Tylee's money in August to her own account?

 

[Boxer]

Then, how does she explain lying to the police? If she truly believed she killed her children because they were "zombies", why not tell this to the police? Why tell people all of these stories? That Kay was trying to take JJ? That Tylee was at school? That JJ was in Arizona with friends? And she wanted MG to lie to the police regarding JJ?

That they are "safe". Why take copies of their birth certificates to Hawaii? Why continue to cash the Social Security checks and spend the money? Why change the deposit of Tylee's money in August to her own account?

Collecting SS on deceased individuals is a crime with no relation to whether the deceased were children or dark zombies who got "what they deserved."
The individual with the SSN was deceased and collecting on their account a crime.
Not too mentally ill to do the paperwork and get fraudulent money.

But maybe rolling over on Chad would be a strategy, "he said they were in a safe place etc."

 

[Sheila Terranova]

When I lived in the southwest I met an awful lot of people who were trotting over hot coals, building bunkers into mountains and preparing for nuclear Holocaust, into pyramids, believing in past lives, seeing auras, participating In sweat lodges that killed a few, believing that children chose their parents, all kinds of ,what I found rather odd, things. None of these neighbors could be considered insane. Just devoted followers to endless unique spiritual sects. I think Laurie is one of those. And also either a narcissist or a sociopath. Not nuts.

 

[ReadySet]

OP said , would NOT qualify her for an exception. LV could not claim mental illness as an excuse.

Then, how does she explain lying to the police? If she truly believed she killed her children because they were "zombies", why not tell this to the police? Why tell people all of these stories? That Kay was trying to take JJ? That Tylee was at school? That JJ was in Arizona with friends? And she wanted MG to lie to the police regarding JJ?

That they are "safe". Why take copies of their birth certificates to Hawaii? Why continue to cash the Social Security checks and spend the money? Why change the deposit of Tylee's money in August to her own account?

 

[fuzzybutter]

It appears that LVD is no stranger to being evaluated by a Psychologist.

According to court paperwork, the psychologist, David R. Poole, said, "Mrs. Vallow is a devout Mormon who has mentioned to me that death would be an option before giving Tylee to her father, Joseph Ryan, even for a visit. These are real and serious concerns."

Phoenix PD releases details on how third ex-husband of Lori Vallow was found dead

I found that report chilling. Poole picked up on a lot of the same behavior she was doing up until she got arrested.

When I lived in the southwest I met an awful lot of people who were trotting over hot coals, building bunkers into mountains and preparing for nuclear Holocaust, into pyramids, believing in past lives, participating In sweat lodges that killed a few, believing that children chose their parents, all kinds of ,what I found rather odd, things. None of these neighbors could be considered insane. Just devoted followers to endless unique spiritual sects. I think Laurie is one of those. And also either a narcissist or a sociopath. Not nuts.

I go back and forth between thinking she is a narcissist/sociopath or has some kind of serious psychological condition/s.

 

[FLmom777]

Thank you! I didn't realize the indictment was instead of an arrest affidavit. I was hoping to see something that showed some of the evidence like we saw with Leticia Stauch and are waiting on for Barry Morphew. I am going to re-read the probable cause affidavits tho. Thank you again

The grand jury indictments seem to be the same information as you would see in an arrest warrant. Have you read that?

 

[wenwe4]

Then, how does she explain lying to the police? If she truly believed she killed her children because they were "zombies", why not tell this to the police? Why tell people all of these stories? That Kay was trying to take JJ? That Tylee was at school? That JJ was in Arizona with friends? And she wanted MG to lie to the police regarding JJ?

That they are "safe". Why take copies of their birth certificates to Hawaii? Why continue to cash the Social Security checks and spend the money? Why change the deposit of Tylee's money in August to her own account?

Those are separate crimes she has been charged with. IMO she isn't helping herself currently and even "if" she truly believed her kids were zombies it would count as knowingly killing a human being(s) - see link posted above. The end game would get her no closer to a different outcome (based upon the facts that we know so far) if in fact she is malingering or faking.

 

[Inthedetails]

I found that report chilling. Poole picked up on a lot of the same behavior she was doing up until she got arrested.

I go back and forth between thinking she is a narcissist/sociopath or has some kind of serious psychological condition/s.

My current thought is she is a narcissist who needs to feel constantly superior, in control, and stimulated. She causes chaos around her at all times and calmly thrives in the atmosphere she upsets, imo. She's doing it right now.

I also think she fully believes the whole zombie thing, and I don't think religious beliefs can be medicated away. Perhaps they can be de-programmed like when people leave a cult. I don't think she wants to be de-programmed, though, and I think she is prepared to stand firm even when "persecuted."

If she is not cooperating with her defense, then the court needs to formally decide how to proceed. I hope everything is done by the book so there is no option to toss it all out later. My hunch is she will be deemed competent to stand trial, but it's a tough one to predict.

jmo

 

[fred&edna]

Then, how does she explain lying to the police? If she truly believed she killed her children because they were "zombies", why not tell this to the police? Why tell people all of these stories? That Kay was trying to take JJ? That Tylee was at school? That JJ was in Arizona with friends? And she wanted MG to lie to the police regarding JJ?

That they are "safe". Why take copies of their birth certificates to Hawaii? Why continue to cash the Social Security checks and spend the money? Why change the deposit of Tylee's money in August to her own account?

Yes, she said she was a goddess and her children were zombies but she covered her "A$$ets" as she went along.

 

[Gibbo214]

Yes, she said she was a goddess and her children were zombies but she covered her "A$$ets" as she went along.

I would have thought that Goddesses would be above needing earthly money.

 

[fred&edna]

I would have thought that Goddesses would be above needing earthly money.

I know, right?!

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Aunt of slain Idaho child: Daybells' indictment is 'day we've been waiting for'

From Annie Cushing.

 

[Diddian]

Aunt of slain Idaho child: Daybells' indictment is 'day we've been waiting for'

From Annie Cushing.

That article reads that the remains of the children were found January 2020, but that is not correct.

While CD and LVD were tracked down in Hawaii in late January 2020 and she was subsequently arrested there and later extradited to Idaho in early March, the children's remains were not recovered until June 9, 2020 and CD was arrested that same day.

 

[mickey2942]

I think that the fraud charges are going to be more difficult to overcome than the murder charges. And they can be federal charges. Right now, the social security fraud is used to support the murder charges, for state murder charges.

LVD has not been charged with federal Social Security fraud, yet.

 

[MTW2011]

Nate Eaton has posted the grand jury witness list tonight writing “here is the list of witnesses who testified during grand jury precedings in the case of Chad and Lori...”

I thought some of us speculated here that while was a “witness list”, that the grand jury chose/chooses who they wanted to hear from, and that it is likely that not everyone on the list actually testified....?
Does anyone have any more about this?
Just curious and thank you in advance

 

[squareandrabbet]

We don't know if she meant killing Tylee to stop Joe having her, or killing Joe, or even killing the judge, who knows.

I think it absolutely matters in a psychological evaluation to know if she envisioned dying too, because there is a world of difference between (disordered) thinking that one believes one is rescuing children from a worse situation like the world ending, and being prepared to die with them, and having a plan to enjoy life without them and experience the feeling of power over people she despises.

MOO

Thanks, that makes sense. I think I skipped over the issue of "competence", and went straight to the issue of "perception of guilt in respect of motive" vis-a-vis these particular attitudes of Lori's.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Nate Eaton has posted the grand jury witness list tonight writing “here is the list of witnesses who testified during grand jury precedings in the case of Chad and Lori...”

I thought some of us speculated here that while was a “witness list”, that the grand jury chose/chooses who they wanted to hear from, and that it is likely that not everyone on the list actually testified....?
Does anyone have any more about this?
Just curious and thank you in advance

I don't have a particular answer except for the fact that (a), Nate says it and I am assuming he queried this before publishing; (b), IIRC, the witness list was broken out into dates; and one person's name (can't remember whose), was listed for the afternoon/evening of Day 2 and also appeared first on the morning of Day 3.

From the latter especially, I was thinking this list illustrated people both actually called to the stand and in the order which they were called; rather than the ahead-of-time wishlist. If you were recounting actual people who showed up, this would be the point at which you would note that one of them needed to be held over for a second day of testimony.

JMO, IMO, all that jazz.

 

[Inthedetails]

Nate Eaton has posted the grand jury witness list tonight writing “here is the list of witnesses who testified during grand jury precedings in the case of Chad and Lori...”

I thought some of us speculated here that while was a “witness list”, that the grand jury chose/chooses who they wanted to hear from, and that it is likely that not everyone on the list actually testified....?
Does anyone have any more about this?
Just curious and thank you in advance

Where can we find the list? tia

 

[MTW2011]

Where can we find the list? tia

You can see that list on the 2nd page of this document, from the Court website
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211623/Motion to Amend and Attach Corrected Witness List.pdf

 

[FLmom777]

I don't have a particular answer except for the fact that (a), Nate says it and I am assuming he queried this before publishing; (b), IIRC, the witness list was broken out into dates; and one person's name (can't remember whose), was listed for the afternoon/evening of Day 2 and also appeared first on the morning of Day 3.

From the latter especially, I was thinking this list illustrated people both actually called to the stand and in the order which they were called; rather than the ahead-of-time wishlist. If you were recounting actual people who showed up, this would be the point at which you would note that one of them needed to be held over for a second day of testimony.

JMO, IMO, all that jazz.

Here is an article that shows the indictment. The last two pages are the witness list with the dates.
https://www.kivitv.com/news/court-tv-chad-daybell-indicted-on-3-counts-conspiracy-to-commit-murder