Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #59

[longtimereader]

BBM. Not if the texts actually exist and were retrieved. Before his death Charles lived in Texas, so she didn't have access to his phone if he sent her threats from there. The sister claims that he was both begging and threatening Lori.

Lori can assign his name to any number in her phone. She may have used a burner phone, named it Charles and then sent herself threatening texts. Screen shots could be made and saved or forwarded. Summer would never have seen the sending number. That could also be a senario.

 

[Kemug]

Good points. It is likely though, if Chad never met Lori, he probably would have led a pretty decent life. Lori was already involved in murder and fraud before meeting Chad and no way that was going to stop. Most likely, Lori would have met some other sucker with whom she would have continued to commit murder and mayhem.

But would he? (have led a decent life, I mean) Wasn't he already making up to women with his stories of having been together in the past, and his wife was going to die young? Sort of plotting out his future?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Nate Eaton did an interview of the guy that was cast to play him in the tv movie coming up. He says he'll post it later this week.

Nate Eaton - Reporter
"Just finished one of the most surreal interviews I've ever done. This is Sp*ncer L*rd -a mechanical engineer who quit his job in 2016 to become an actor. He has since starred in the Netflix hit 'Riverdale' and is in a made-fo…"

 

[squareandrabbet]

ITA either of the children IMO. In the interview with LVD's mom and sister, the interviewer asked her when she had last talked to Tylee, and she said on her birthday.

Then the interviewer said well now that it is believed that she was last seen since before then how did she know if it was Tylee? She said they talked by 'text' and that she felt like it sounded like Tylee??!!

Either they are incredibly devious like Lori; or possess zero guile.

It's possible that true crime has ruined me and my objectivity forever on this point, but I find it hard to believe that Summer could honestly think, just because someone texts you from their phone, that this guarantees it being the owner of said phone. Clearly she has never worried about she or any of her family members meeting with foul play; because that just seems like basic human practicality to me, much in the same way that just because someone's credit card is used at an ATM, does not mean that the credit card was resting in the hand of the person whose name is written on the card at the time it was used. Weird to me that Lori and Alex were prone to being influenced by such imaginative flights of fancy, whereas Summer and Janis seem uniquely (IMO) literalist...

 

[BeachSky]

I can't help but think that the subpoena and the contempt motion is a way to threaten Melanie.

Oh he is gunning for MG.
Like he tried with Nate Eaton IMO.
Melanie opened up the flood gates on Lori & Chad. I can’t help but think MG might of befell a sudden Alex like-exit if those 2 love birds could of conjured up a plan.
I think the only reason Kay is still alive is because she was seen in the media so very much.
The Daybell couple were used to charming their way $selfishly through & harming those who stood in their way IMO.

Mom of missing Idaho kids screamed at killer brother
Missing Idaho kids' mom Lori Vallow had a knock-down, drag-out fight in the middle of the street with her killer brother — who himself died mysteriously after the children went missing,

MOO

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I 100% believe LVD will be restored to competency.

Well, if she needs an advisor on how to avoid that, there's one just a click away... Deceased/Not Found - MD - Sarah, 3, & Jacob Hoggle, 2, Clarksburg, 9 Sept 2014 *Arrest*

 

[MsJosie]

Mark’s Means is holding up the transfer of LV to the state hospital. Here is a list of wants/demands he feels he should get. He is not a doctor so I don’t know if all this will fly. Any thoughts?


https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/06/attorney-makes-long-list-of-requests-before-lori-vallow-daybell-is-moved-to-mental-health-facility/

 

[MsJosie]

Question….if LV is unable to make decisions, if and how could she sign any “power of attorney” over to MM on her behalf…she cannot understand legal issues? How can she do one thing and not the other?

 

[Jolynna]

3) Was it Chad or was it Lori who did the manipulating?

Ultimately, Tylee and JJ were LVD's responsibility.

Mothers are supposed to ensure their children's well being.

Not only did LVD fail to protect them, she *helped* kill them. She was cruel to them during what *she knew* were the last weeks of their lives.

Giving Bailey away. Calling Tylee a zombie in front of her. Not giving JJ the medicine he needed to live a happier and less stressful life. However, JJ died, he was awake and aware. We know that because his hands and feet were bound. Did he try to call for 'his mommy' while he could?

I don't care who said what to whom. Chad may have planted ideas in LVD's head. But, nothing he might have said excuses LVD's participation in the unspeakable acts. Chad did not force LVD to be cruel.

 

[Teche]

Attorney makes long list of requests before Lori Vallow Daybell is moved to mental health facility - East Idaho News

"....In the document filed Friday, Means says he is making the requests because of Daybell’s “fragile mental state of incompetency, as a direct result of the historical and systematic mental, emotional and physical abuse she suffered.” Means did not detail the abuse but said he is raising concerns due to allegations of conversations between the Director of the IDHW and prosecutors over Daybell’s situation while excluding Means....

Means states that he wants to be directly involved in Daybell’s treatment [ ] and asks for the names and credentials of all people involved in her care. Means also wants to know proposed treatment, medications and plans before they are administered to Daybell...."

more at link....

...and we thought it couldn't get more absurd! MOO

I guess he’s medically trained.

 

[BeachSky]

Mark’s Means is holding up the transfer of LV to the state hospital. Here is a list of wants/demands he feels he should get. He is not a doctor so I don’t know if all this will fly. Any thoughts?

Attorney makes long list of requests before Lori Vallow Daybell is moved to mental health facility - East Idaho News

I’d be more concerned LVD would kill someone in the facility!!!
She does have a trail of death in her wake !

MOO

 

[dcfi224]

Question….if LV is unable to make decisions, if and how could she sign any “power of attorney” over to MM on her behalf…she cannot understand legal issues? How can she do one thing and not the other?

I agree, it wouldn’t make sense, though guardianship can be assigned by the court for someone who doesn’t have the capacity to make their own decisions.

There is a difference between “capacity” and “competency” and they are often used interchangeably, when they are in fact different (guilty myself).

• Competency (sometimes called legal capacity)
  • A judicial determination of legal status
  • Made by a JUDGE, not a physician
  • Denotes a person’s legal ability or inability
  • Multiple areas of competency may be addressed in legal settings, such as competency to:
    • Stand trial
    • Be executed
    • Be a parent
    • Make a will
    • Sign a contract
    • Make health care decisions
  • Judges make final decisions about competency, sometimes after input from psychiatrists and psychologists, or other physicians.
    • Court opinions about competency should generally be left to psychiatrists with specific training in forensic psychiatry, except for competency to make health care decisions.

• Capacity (sometimes called clinical competency)
  • Assessed by a PHYSICIAN, not a judge
  • A clinical opinion regarding a patient’s decisional abilities to make health care decisions
  • Assessment based primarily on the patient’s capacity to understand an informed consent discussion
  • Elements of informed consent
    • Knowing
      • What the procedure is
      • Risks
      • Benefits
      • Alternatives
    • Voluntary
    • Competent
• Guardianship
  • A legal intervention in which a person’s decision-making capacities are assessed
  • After a judicial hearing, rights may be removed for a person (the ward) if the person is adjudicated incompetent and assigned to another person (the guardian).
    • Guardianship orders are individualized. A person may retain rights to make certain decisions, and other decision-making rights may be assigned to the guardian.
      • To find out which decision-making powers are assigned by the court to the guardian, the specific guardianship order must be reviewed.
      • Medical decision-making may or may not be one of the decision-making powers removed from a ward and assigned to a guardian.

Capacity, Competency, and Guardianship | Johns Hopkins Psychiatry Guide

Since we really don’t know, for now I’m just going to assume MM does not have rights to oversee any part LVDs psychiatric care

 

[pizzaman12]

I agree, it wouldn’t make sense, though guardianship can be assigned by the court for someone who doesn’t have the capacity to make their own decisions.

There is a difference between “capacity” and “competency” and they are often used interchangeably, when they are in fact different (guilty myself).

• Competency (sometimes called legal capacity)
  • A judicial determination of legal status
  • Made by a JUDGE, not a physician
  • Denotes a person’s legal ability or inability
  • Multiple areas of competency may be addressed in legal settings, such as competency to:
    • Stand trial
    • Be executed
    • Be a parent
    • Make a will
    • Sign a contract
    • Make health care decisions
  • Judges make final decisions about competency, sometimes after input from psychiatrists and psychologists, or other physicians.
    • Court opinions about competency should generally be left to psychiatrists with specific training in forensic psychiatry, except for competency to make health care decisions.

• Capacity (sometimes called clinical competency)
  • Assessed by a PHYSICIAN, not a judge
  • A clinical opinion regarding a patient’s decisional abilities to make health care decisions
  • Assessment based primarily on the patient’s capacity to understand an informed consent discussion
  • Elements of informed consent
    • Knowing
      • What the procedure is
      • Risks
      • Benefits
      • Alternatives
    • Voluntary
    • Competent
• Guardianship
  • A legal intervention in which a person’s decision-making capacities are assessed
  • After a judicial hearing, rights may be removed for a person (the ward) if the person is adjudicated incompetent and assigned to another person (the guardian).
    • Guardianship orders are individualized. A person may retain rights to make certain decisions, and other decision-making rights may be assigned to the guardian.
      • To find out which decision-making powers are assigned by the court to the guardian, the specific guardianship order must be reviewed.
      • Medical decision-making may or may not be one of the decision-making powers removed from a ward and assigned to a guardian.

Capacity, Competency, and Guardianship | Johns Hopkins Psychiatry Guide

Since we really don’t know, for now I’m just going to assume MM does not have rights to oversee any part LVDs psychiatric care

BBM

I would assume if he had been granted that authority, the wording of his demands would be different

 

[indicolite22]

Does MM claim that Lori's incompetency is the result of historic abuse and not due to her religious delusions? Is she claiming PSTD? Is that also her chosen defense for the murders? Does "historic" refer to Chad as well or only her previous husbands? I bet she's trying to portray Charles as a villain again. This time her trick won't work. Will she try to claim childhood abuse as well?

 

[indicolite22]

What's the point of MM's proposed private hospital visits to Lori before her competency is restored? Since she's incapable of helping with her defense they can't conduct business. Does he want to be there for emotional support or to oversee her treatment? Is that an attorney's role?

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Local update: MM is at the women’s detention center today

 

[LakeHuronGirl]

Local update: MM is at the women’s detention center today

He's there nearly every day. I'd like to know what he does there if she is incompetent? Thoughts?

 

[CSIDreamer]

What's the point of MM's proposed private hospital visits to Lori before her competency is restored? Since she's incapable of helping with her defense they can't conduct business. Does he want to be there for emotional support or to oversee her treatment? Is that an attorney's role?

That is absolutely not his role. I think he's dancing dangerously close to a serious ethics violation. JMO

 

[mickey2942]

3) Was it Chad or was it Lori who did the manipulating?

Ultimately, Tylee and JJ were LVD's responsibility.

Mothers are supposed to ensure their children's well being.

Not only did LVD fail to protect them, she *helped* kill them. She was cruel to them during what *she knew* were the last weeks of their lives.

Giving Bailey away. Calling Tylee a zombie in front of her. Not giving JJ the medicine he needed to live a happier and less stressful life. However, JJ died, he was awake and aware. We know that because his hands and feet were bound. Did he try to call for 'his mommy' while he could?

I don't care who said what to whom. Chad may have planted ideas in LVD's head. But, nothing he might have said excuses LVD's participation in the unspeakable acts. Chad did not force LVD to be cruel.

I am waiting for the "Hedda Nussbaum" defense for LVD. She will have a "Dependent Personality Disorder" and took orders from her man.

Which is a stark contrast to the woman we saw on video in Hawaii, who seemed very much aware of what was going on, and seemed to be in charge of CD.

 

[GRT]

Things I wonder about and hope some posters here can help me understand...........
1). Do you think Lori will ever be found competent to stand trial?
2). Do you think Chad being tried without Lori will be to his advantage?
3) Was it Chad or was it Lori who did the manipulating?

I think they're both evil incarnate, but I think the manipulating came from Chad.

He is the one who wanted a god-like life. He's the one who claimed he had an NDE and could now converse with passed saints. He's the one who wrote books and wanted adoration for them.

I think he has all the trappings of a wannabe cult leader.

Then Lori entered--a devout, but narcissistic woman who was prettier than anything Chad ever dreamed would look his way. He lured and egged her on with his promises of her being a goddess, and she was stupid enough to believe him.

There was no reason to kill either Charles or Tammy. They could have divorced them, and Lori was no stranger to divorce, so I feel as though Chad was the one who didn't want a divorce to strain his reputation. If Tammy died, he could be a widower, which was much more respectful.

I think killing JJ and Tylee was the way Lori had to prove she would put Chad first. Again, she'd married and brought kids along as baggage before, I just don't think it was in Chad's plans for him to have more kids around. Lori had to prove she belonged to Chad.

Plus, I think she really fell for his story that death here might be better for them because great tribulations were coming. She believed their bodies would die but they would live on in another realm.

I would not be surprised if Chad created some sort of death ritual with her where they commended the children's spirits to next planet or something.

Chad had to have gotten a HUGE feeling of power over that.

I think it was Chad.

Lori may never be competent again. I don't think she ever really was. I think she's been a psychopathy from childhood.

JMOO