Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #60

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I think the stuff Lori talks about picking up from Alex and securing was code for the gun case, and she wanted to make sure he was prepared because the time had come.
 
indicolite22 said:
Chad's message to Lori after Charles' murder:

"I got the inspiration to go back to my original death percentages that helped us track Charles, Ned, etc. Tammy is very close. Her percentage has fallen steadily since Hiplos left. It's encouraging!"

It seems that death percentage was another part of his made-up doctrine. Perhaps it's a fluctuating level of zombification. Is low level good or bad? Low death percentage sounds good. What was Tammy close to? Being cured or becoming a zombie?
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Being dead. MOO.
 
LizzyE said:
Hi, this is my first post in this thread (although I’ve been following for a long time) and I am reluctant to begin posting so late.

At this late date, I’m not sure if any of my professional psychiatric opinions are even particularly relevant. I was initially drawn to this case because of the elements of Munchausen’s by proxy I observed IMO, which I’ve devoted much of my career to. I am American board certified in both psychiatry and internal medicine however I will reserve my opinions until my professional credentials have been verified by this site.

Until then I am desperately hoping to catch up (if possible) and post simply personal observations and opinions. Thank you.
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I can't wait until you get verified! We need you here and on so many other cases! Welcome to WS!!!
 
montegrl said:
Graphic warning
Yeah the description is pretty interesting, the first shot that hit him also hit the baseboard, which means it went high to low. Maybe they knocked CV down with the bat first? And then fired the executionary shot? I suspect Alex wasn't actually a good shot, he missed BB and TD also. He may have only had practice with stationary targets. This is so sad to discuss. MOO
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CV played minor league baseball. It’s safe to say nobody knocked him to floor first with a bat. He had to have been shot first. MOO of course.
 
Apologies in advance for the following wordiness. Trying to sort my thoughts after a quick read of the document.
I’m glad these morons were stupid enough to leave a trail of text messages.
I still can’t wrap my head around what caused this group of people (even larger than we imagined) to engage in this bizarre conspiracy. Maybe once it started it became a sunken-cost fallacy that snowballed? Did their followers understand that the affair was the real trigger for the violent deaths? How could adults devote themselves to this death cult narrative? I know people believe what they want to believe, but were any of them threatened by the core players? Blackmailed?
At its core, this ‘group’ of people (cult is the proper term?) was just a gang of criminals using their weird belief system as a way to excuse all their sins.
Thinking of Charles’ loved ones as I watch today unfold. How terrible it is to know that more people would be alive now if Arizona hadn’t botched the case. I know I’m a broken record, but I wish just one of the conspirators would do the right thing and confess, to spare everyone years and years of legal proceedings. I think many of us are getting the Arias/Anthony whiff from this case, especially given the scope and complexity. I’d hate for it to play out like that.
 
Nikynoo said:
Hmmm, perhaps Loris did do the shooting. We know that AC supposedly missed T AND B, perhaps he didn't have it in him to shoot someone. Perhaps, Lori took over and shot Charles?

I am more convinved now that AC was duped by Lori (note the difference between their statements as to why AC was at Lori's) and he did nothing more than clean up (and thereby protecting) after his sister.
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Nikynoo said:
Hmmm, perhaps Loris did do the shooting. We know that AC supposedly missed T AND B, perhaps he didn't have it in him to shoot someone. Perhaps, Lori took over and shot Charles?

I am more convinved now that AC was duped by Lori (note the difference between their statements as to why AC was at Lori's) and he did nothing more than clean up (and thereby protecting) after his sister.
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You’re comment “perhaps [Alex] didn’t have it in him to shoot someone” got me thinking.

Someone fired at Charles twice and missed. Someone fired at B and missed. And someone fired at Tammy and missed, Or maybe ran away without even firing. Alex was the presumed shooter all 3 times.

The odds that two shots would be fired at a grown man in the same room without even grazing them are a bit low. Even lower that someone would completely miss twice then land their next shot squarely in the victims chest. I don’t know what it means, but something seems off.


There’s no indication that Alex was a violent hothead prone to frequent fistfights. And when he decided to attack Joe Ryan he chose a taser. There are plenty of angry people who’ve shot bullets at their enemies in broad daylight. But how often are enemies tased? Maybe a taser was all Alex could bring himself to use.

When MG asked AC about JJ and Tylee’s whereabouts he said “you don’t want to know”. He didn’t change the subject. He didn’t lie that they were someplace safe. He didn’t express relief that their spirits were free now that the Zombie imposters were gone—like he might if he were completely on board. IMO “you don’t want to know” suggests a degree of regret or sadness. Emotions Lori nor Chad have ever shown.

When it comes down to it, no one in Alex’s life has come to harm unless they know Lori too. Then they die.

What if you’re right that Alex didn’t have it in him to shoot someone. I think it’s possible that Lori shot at CV, missed twice then Alex took over. But maybe it’s the other way around and she took the gun from Alex, shot CV and left Alex to deal with it while she heads out to buy burgers , flip-flops and an alibi.

I’ve assumed all along Alex was a monster or that readily did Lori’s dirty work. But maybe Alex was a reluctant participant, helping Lori out of a misguided, Lenny-like sense of duty. Or fear. And maybe he had enough and was killed not because L & C needed a scapegoat but to avoid him spilling the beans.
 
SleuthD-o-doubleg said:
I’m not able to confirm if LVD is at the women’s detention center or if she is at another facility being treated still. However, it would not be the first time LVD status has been kept quiet or that she was said to be somewhere but wasn’t (ie being dropped off at the women’s detention center the first time). And MM did go missing for a while and now he’s been back everyday at the women’s detention center.

All jmo moo imo
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Thank you. :)
 
Webbie16 said:
Anyone else think the last redaction is actually Melanie Gibb and not ZP? If you look at the redactions from the beginning of the paragraph above I believe it says Melanie Gibb and Zulema Pastenes. Now compare the size of those redactions to the redaction in the last sentence. ZP fits almost exactly, but that does not leave room for the word AND. Which IMO is redacted in error on the last sentence. However if you look at the MG redaction it would leave room for the word and. MOO
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Do you mean the part where it says “it is recommended that LV [redacted] be charged w/conspiracy to commit murder”?

If so, and the redacted part is a name I think it must be a male since they continue the sentence with “for the death of her husband”. The sentence would be correct if Lori was the only “her” listed. But if there were two “hers” hopefully they’d have worded it differently.

ETA: Looks like “and Chad Daybell” would fit nicely in that spot. Even though his name wasn’t redacted earlier in the document if they recommended charging him and the recommendation was refused it makes sense that they’d redact it here. Also makes sense to redact it if they’re planning on charging him but aren’t ready to do so just yet.
 
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