Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #60

[Satchie]

That's from a famous short story written half a century ago or more by Shirley Jackson. My daughter and I studied it when she homeschooled!

Definitely a similar vibe to this whole mess.

I guess that's my problem, this case isn't a fictional story, a movie, a netflix series. Unlike those creations of imagination, real life is not perfectly scripted, stuff happens that a scriptwriter would never include because it's 'off plot'.

In a fictional story, Alex's death would never be natural causes, it would be part of some master plan. But real life is messy and doesn't adhere to a perfect plot.

 

[CSIDreamer]

He was married, did you know this?

Yes, I did. So you believe ZP poisoned him on behalf of CD and LVD?

 

[Satchie]

I think it is possible that Zulema was told she was married off to watch Alex, and Alex was told he was married off to change his name.

MOO

RSBM

My understanding was that only married couples would be chosen to be part of the 144,000, however I can't give a link at this point.

 

[Satchie]

Of course not. But Zulema was his wife. Think about that.

Although both Daybells allegedly killed previous, long-term spouses who they had married for love, but who they no longer wanted, I've never seen any indication that it was part their theology that you should marry someone specifically to kill them.

 

[Ruminations]

READ: The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox - East Idaho News

An autopsy case of methanol induced intracranial hemorrhage

Methanol poisoning cause brain hemorrhages. And can be difficult to detect in an autopsy, as it breaks own rather quickly. And is not usually found in the vitreous. That is significant, because based on the autopsy reports for Alex Cox, only the vitreous fluids were tested for drugs.
Methanol poisoning in Klang Valley, Malaysia: Autopsy case series - ScienceDirect

Interesting- I had no idea. My research- conducted over at least 10 minutes- shows that methanol is not as intoxicating as ethanol- but is cheaper and makes convincing counterfeit whiskies for less $$$.

I don’t have reason to believe Alex (Joe, Tylee, J.J. or Tammy) drank alcohol- especially not day to day at home. So administration would have to be by means other than murderous mock tail. And dosed correctly. Alex could have forced himself and the children - but Tammy?

In any case, if it were a poison, I am sure one of the murderers googled it- pointing investigators/ME’s in the right direction. If you google SS implications of murder- the meaning of the weather forecast for your body disposal plans- never turn off location, and think it is smart to introduce your new burner phone number with, “Hi it’s Ruminations,” while apparently communicating with a device your previous number communicated with, you are not going to draw the line on internet searches for how to murder by Visine or methanol.

I understand why Alex’s death is very hard to accept as natural- and while I do accept it I could flip in an instant. But it is unrealistic to think this particular band of criminals was able to find a poison without leaving a trail. If Alex was poisoned- LE already knows IMO.

I bet somebody wishes he googled “typical raccoon behavior.”

MOO

 

[Satchie]

READ: The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox - East Idaho News

An autopsy case of methanol induced intracranial hemorrhage

Methanol poisoning cause brain hemorrhages. And can be difficult to detect in an autopsy, as it breaks own rather quickly. And is not usually found in the vitreous. That is significant, because based on the autopsy reports for Alex Cox, only the vitreous fluids were tested for drugs.
Methanol poisoning in Klang Valley, Malaysia: Autopsy case series - ScienceDirect

I'm not getting the connection, the autopsy on AC found no hemorrhage in the brain.

 

[Colorado303]

Can anyone theorize on how CD and LVD poisoned and killed AC from Hawaii?

I tend to believe the M.E. report. It makes sense to me. JMO

Z

 

[Colorado303]

This is probably a case of me missing a detail early on, but this, from the Affidavit,

It was not until emergency personnel began life saving measures that they saw blood coming from Charles’ body​

makes me think differently about LE cleaning up CV's blood at the scene. It always sounded like they were being overly helpful to AC & LVD, and altering evidence in doing so. But since bleeding started when EMTs began CPR, it sounds like it raised LE's suspicions right then. And once the body was moved, they cleaned the area to check for other evidence - which they found in the form of a "defect in the floor." JMO, but it seems much less solicitous than how I initially perceived it.

If that was the case, you’d think the officer would have said so in his report.

 

[Colorado303]

Although both Daybells allegedly killed previous, long-term spouses who they had married for love, but who they no longer wanted, I've never seen any indication that it was part their theology that you should marry someone specifically to kill them.

I’d really like to know if after they married, Z took a quick break from making earthquakes to set up a spousal life insurance policy.

 

[GRT]

This is probably a case of me missing a detail early on, but this, from the Affidavit,

It was not until emergency personnel began life saving measures that they saw blood coming from Charles’ body​

makes me think differently about LE cleaning up CV's blood at the scene. It always sounded like they were being overly helpful to AC & LVD, and altering evidence in doing so. But since bleeding started when EMTs began CPR, it sounds like it raised LE's suspicions right then. And once the body was moved, they cleaned the area to check for other evidence - which they found in the form of a "defect in the floor." JMO, but it seems much less solicitous than how I initially perceived it.

Obviously, it did raise the suspicions of some LE officers, but I still can't figure out why they initially ruled it as "self defense." With evidence like that, I wonder why they didn't do an in-depth investigation at that point.

I might be remembering wrong, but wasn't there an officer who was friends/acquaintances with CD/LVD?

 

[GRT]

READ: The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox - East Idaho News

An autopsy case of methanol induced intracranial hemorrhage

Methanol poisoning cause brain hemorrhages. And can be difficult to detect in an autopsy, as it breaks own rather quickly. And is not usually found in the vitreous. That is significant, because based on the autopsy reports for Alex Cox, only the vitreous fluids were tested for drugs.
Methanol poisoning in Klang Valley, Malaysia: Autopsy case series - ScienceDirect

I wonder if LE has some sort of digital evidence, such as the results from Google searches on CD's computer looking for poisons that are difficult to detect in an autopsy?

If so, that would be significant.

 

[GRT]

Can anyone theorize on how CD and LVD poisoned and killed AC from Hawaii?

I tend to believe the M.E. report. It makes sense to me. JMO

I think they (Chad, at least) likely directed Zulema to do the dirty work. In fact, I think she was probably recruited to marry Alex as well for just that reason.

Zulema was given immunity for something. We don't know what yet, but immunity indicates that she did something criminal and that they're going to give her a pass in order to have her testify against someone else. So, she did something wrong. Maybe she was supposed to slip him something before she went to work? Who knows? That's just speculation on my part, but I think it's odd that she would summon her 25 year old son to "check on" Alex and she left work early to do the same thing. It's almost like she wanted someone else to find him first but she couldn't stay away.

And then, for no good reason at all, she asks LE if they think she was involved in his death. They were newlyweds and rather than crying about her husband, she's wondering if LE thinks she killed him.

I would never have given her immunity, but perhaps her testimony is vital to putting CD and LVD behind bars for the rest of their lives. I just don't know.

Chad seemed to like the idea that he could have others do his dirty work, so recruiting ZP would be well within his bag of tricks.

Then there's also the fact that ZP said she barely knew CD and LVD but her daughter told LE they were much closer. How close is the question?

 

[indicolite22]

I'm surprised that there were people other than Chad and Lori (also non-family) who actively worked (via spiritual means) on Charles' "demon", trying to cause his demise. IMO that indicated a degree of authority in the cult. So far we thought that Chad and Lori were the only ones possessing special powers. Imagine a third person chiming in with their manipulation affecting their decisions. What was in it for that person? There's no obvious vested interest (financial or marital) like in L&C's case.

 

[Snow_In _June]

My bet is these two are a tip of a very big iceberg and there is more to it all. I would out of gut instinct say follow the money.

 

[Tortoise]

Great point! But wasn't there some mention of blood being seen at sink and LE proceeded to clean it up as well, implying it was there when LE arrived? If it were only blood from LE providing cpr attempts, then why would it be mentioned that it was seen at sink? This may have been from the initial body cam videos, not 100% sure though. Since we know Alex never actually attempted cpr himself, was the blood on sink perhaps from him checking for a pulse? Forgive me for the vague details, as I haven't been aggressively following this as much as I did at the beginning. Anyone else remember something about blood at the sink or am I just in need of a mental competency evaluation after following this crazy case?

police incident report here

Facebook

 

[indicolite22]

My bet is these two are a tip of a very big iceberg and there is more to it all. I would out of gut instinct say follow the money.

If we follow the money that we know of so far, we see that it was going to be spent by Lori and Chad. I can't imagine Lori giving away the proceeds of Charles' life insurance or her children's SS money. Chad formulated their seven missions to accomplish together and established himself and Lori as the leaders of the 144k. On the other hand, according to IP's document, the Church of the Firstborn and the 144k entailed "multiple groups around the world specializing in different powers" (link below). Lori and Chad's group specialized in healing and music. The last part seems rather random. IMO this was just more of Chad's nonsense to seem more legit to the prospective new followers. I am surprised that they weren't trying to scam the flock by charging for 144k membership. Maybe it was all just Chad's ruse to keep Lori interested (and busy). She must have been ecstatic to be in the front seat for something so important.

Zombies and Cain’s dark 50: Court documents offer a look at what those close to Lori Vallow have to say

 

[Love Never Fails]

Although both Daybells allegedly killed previous, long-term spouses who they had married for love, but who they no longer wanted, I've never seen any indication that it was part their theology that you should marry someone specifically to kill them.

Did you say ALLEGEDLY?

And have you studied their philosophy?
And are you sure they ever married a spouse for love? Where did you get that info?

Lori married for money and attention for herself from the beginning and trashed every man she married. There was never any love in that woman.

Chad married likely so someone could care for him while he chose to dig graves snd write books and pretend he was a god.

So please don’t pretend either of them know what love is or that they didn’t want the other to take care of them.

They are BOTH narcicissts and serial killers.

By the way, if you marry for love and no longer want that person, there is this thing called divorce. NOT murder!!

 

[Chelly]

I think they (Chad, at least) likely directed Zulema to do the dirty work. In fact, I think she was probably recruited to marry Alex as well for just that reason.

Zulema was given immunity for something. We don't know what yet, but immunity indicates that she did something criminal and that they're going to give her a pass in order to have her testify against someone else. So, she did something wrong. Maybe she was supposed to slip him something before she went to work? Who knows? That's just speculation on my part, but I think it's odd that she would summon her 25 year old son to "check on" Alex and she left work early to do the same thing. It's almost like she wanted someone else to find him first but she couldn't stay away.

And then, for no good reason at all, she asks LE if they think she was involved in his death. They were newlyweds and rather than crying about her husband, she's wondering if LE thinks she killed him.

I would never have given her immunity, but perhaps her testimony is vital to putting CD and LVD behind bars for the rest of their lives. I just don't know.

Chad seemed to like the idea that he could have others do his dirty work, so recruiting ZP would be well within his bag of tricks.

Then there's also the fact that ZP said she barely knew CD and LVD but her daughter told LE they were much closer. How close is the question?

Pastenes told detectives she had only been married to Cox for two weeks and had known him for “about a year.”
Good reporting and statements from Zulema in this Jan. 17, 2021 link. Also a stand-up-comedy skit by Alex at 00.35, which I had not previously seen.
Police Release New Details Related To Alex Cox's Death In Vallow/Daybell Case

 

[fred&edna]

If Z was directed to cause AC's death AND if only married couples were chosen to be part of the 144,000, then I'm sure another spouse was likely lined-up to take AC's place so Z (and her new partner) could continue on as part of the special ones. JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

If Z was directed to cause AC's death AND if only married couples were chosen to be part of the 144,000, then I'm sure another spouse was likely lined-up to take AC's place so Z (and her new partner) could continue on as part of the special ones. JMO

Round about got me thinking. Wasn't Alex a pretty highly rated light character? It seems like he was an integral inner circle disciple. They needed their enforcer 144K or no. At what point (if we surmise he was murdered) did he go dark, all the way zombie dark? We're talking a matter of a couple of weeks that he would have went from one extreme to the other.

Just thinking out loud. JMO