Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #2

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"Charles Vallow, 62, came from Texas to visit Lori Vallow and their children. But after he arrived to pick up his son, Charles and Lori Vallow started arguing."

I didn't realize he came all the way from Texas to visit. Was he no longer living in Arizona at the time?

I wonder if she was packing up to move to Idaho when he arrived...

Missing children have possible ties to 2 deaths and people with 'cult-like' beliefs
The above article contains a social media post from Charles' sister which provides a possible explanation of custody situation of JJ and how Lori was able to move him from AZ to ID and enroll him in school:

Quote from article via FB posting of KVW (Kay Vallow Woodcock):
"My beloved brother Charles and his wife Lori adopted him in 2013".
 
Sorry for any confusion. The only 2 that I could find officially ex communicated are Chad and Julie Rowe. I have been looking for info on whether Lori has been ex communicated from LDS as well but haven't found anything official.
Oh this is interesting! I hadn't been able to find out if Chad had been excommunicated. Where did you find this information and can you tell when? In Julie Rowe's interview, she said Chad hadn't been excommunicated.
 
This post is me catching up with a day's worth of questions, so bear with me on formatting and volume...

I don't know if it is the same thing you are referring to but there is an interview of Julie Rowe posted today on Youtube where she has a lot to say about Chad Daybell and the situation. She says that Chad told her that a week or so before Tammy's death she was held at gunpoint by a man in black. For some sort of supposed revenge against Chad. Maybe the man in black was Alex?

Maybe my grandparents were told about this situation (Tammy's parents are usually told a lot about what's happening with all the extended family), but I know for sure no one in my family was ever told about Tammy being held at gunpoint. That's troublesome information to hear.

Police just sounds remarkably un-interested in all of these situations. Charles was shot twice in the chest, they apparently easily accepted self-defense story, no charges, no arrests. Brandon was shot at, reportedly crime is on surveillance video, no charges, no arrests. Tammy, who appeared healthy and fit, dying in her sleep-initially ruled natural causes. Really? What were those natural causes? It sounds like they couldn't even figure out what would be the natural cause, cause no specific cause was apparently given.

It is concerning to see how much seems to have been dropped by local law enforcement. I can vouch for Tammy's case that while the family thought it weird that we were all told "Tammy's death must have been natural so we won't do an autopsy", we all decided it was ultimately up to Chad. Boy I wish someone had thought about it a little more...

Given the testimony of our VI about Chad's children cutting ties with Tammy's side of the family, I'm wondering if that was at their father's request. It seems cruel, like adding insult to injury. Why were they called two-faced? Were Tammy's relatives the ones that raised suspicion about her death? Were they critical of Chad moving on so soon? When did everyone learn about the missing kids?

I'm of the impression that the Daybells cut contact with us at Chad's request, there's talk that he's been telling them we betrayed their family, but I'm not too sure on this.

I’m sorry for what you and your family are going through. I’m sure this is super shocking.
I’m still a few pages behind so if you have already answered this, disregard my question because I’ll find the answer soon! My question was how was Chad’s demeanor after Tammy died? Was he seeming shocked? Sad? In denial? Or was he just kind of whatever about it, not seeming too impacted? If he seemed sad did you think his grief seemed genuine?

Chad seemed to be hit hard by grief, or at least that's the impression I got as I was grieving myself and only saw him at the funeral/viewings.

Do you know if Chad had spent much time in Hawaii prior to this trip?

I don't know. I don't think he or Tammy were too big on vacationing, but I wouldn't rule it out for Chad.

I haven't picked up on one thing, if it is true, in other stories. That is "repeatedly lied." I thought all the stories prior to this said the police came by on one day near the end of November, they lied then, and were gone when the police came back.

Chad and Lori had a line of communication with law enforcement for about a day after the search warrant was executed, but they were uncooperative and kept giving provably false information. I think they kept saying the kids were somewhere new, and when LE would call that place to follow up it would be shown to be another lie.

Hi and thank you so much for sharing! You mentioned while he was in Hawaii a week after her death that he did not want communication with your side of the family anymore—did someone talk to him on the phone or was it a text or email?As far as his current communication with his side of the family—are you certain it is him communicating with them and not someone on his behalf?

I don't know exactly, but it was most definitely a 2-way conversation for a bit because I know that one aunt in particular expressed displeasure at what he told them. It could have been Facebook Messenger, or it could have been a phonecall. Regarding current communication: We hardly get bits and pieces from one of his kids. I doubt we hear everything from this source, and it also steps through about 5 people before it gets through the information chain to me. The Daybells skipped visiting family for Christmas this year after they found out they fed us lies from Chad, because they felt guilty. That's what I heard, at least. So I'd be surprised if they are lying about having contact with him.

I'm so sorry, I am very confused- I thought you were a member of Tammy's family? Or do I have the wrong poster, lol?
So glad you are verified, and thank you so much for doing this!

I am Tammy's nephew, and Chad's (former?) nephew-in-law. Tammy is my dad's sister.

Before Tammy's death, she was held at gunpoint by a man in black?
Did Chad and Tammy call the police and report this incident? Does any of Tammy's family know about this?
If not, I am calling BS on this, unless it was someone that Chad and Lori had do this to Tammy to set up her death but for some reason failed, so another method was used. I mean, the poor woman wasn't even a foot in the grave and he goes and marries Lori and then both disappear and no one seems to know where her two children are.

As mentioned above I had no idea this took place. There's no telling if they contacted police or even any of the family. That would be something LE would have to figure out.

What I don't understand is earlier in the thread, I read that Tammy's death was considered suspicious three days after she died. So why was she allowed to be buried, and why did it take until December for them to exhume her body, further traumatizing her loved ones and friends. I am totally perplexed by this. Why no follow up after their first initial suspicion of her death?
I suppose with three LE departments investigating different incidents, could explain why things have gone slower than we want them to- none of them knew about what the other was investigating. I am curious as to when they all learned that they were basically investigating the same two people's actions, along with the disappearance of the children?
This is such a mess and I am just bewildered as to why these two haven't been found yet along with the children (if they are alive, which I doubt very much, but hope to be wrong). Their actions are criminal, in my eyes. They're not in hiding because they're fearing for their lives, but I must say, if I was a family member or a friend of theirs, I'd be looking over my shoulder until they are caught!

On the Douglas side of things, we were told Tammy died and that it was suspected to be of natural causes. Chad used that as justification to not do an autopsy, which while surprising to the family, we decided to accept.
 
At this point, Chad and Lori have not been charged with any criminal actions.

If they even had the kids, and randomly dropped them off at a gas station, it seems to me, that at this point, while the police have questions for the couple, they are under no obligation to answer them.

The fact that they haven't just given up the kids, to take the heat off of them, is ominous. Sadly.

Right. The only two things that make sense is this scenario or they're so convinced the world is going to end in the next few days that it doesn't matter. MOO
 
Sorry for any confusion. The only 2 that I could find officially ex communicated are Chad and Julie Rowe. I have been looking for info on whether Lori has been ex communicated from LDS as well but haven't found anything official.

What official can you find? Julie has possibly been upfront about it and used it in some manner, but has Chad or the church or someone close to Chad who would know said this?
 
I'm not sure she knew about the plan, I think she is more of a "useful idiot". And she trusts Chad, and is repeating everything Chad told her on the phone the week before Tammy died. Chad stopped communicating with Julie around Feb/March. This is also around the time Lori deserted her family and disappeared for a month. (GH Youtube interview with Kay Woodcock) Julie says she lost contact with Chad, until they talked and made "amends" a week or so before Tammy's death. I think Chad told a story to Tammy, that he knew she would believe, and that she would tell to her followers that would


Yes, it is, BUT!

According to Julie's interview: After Julie was excommunicated, Chad stopped answering her texts/emails,etc. This was in Feb or March. Feb/March is also the time Lori left Charles, and no one knows where she went for a month (GH Youtube interview with Kay Woodcock) Chad contacts Julie a week or so before Tammy dies, and Julie says they "make ammends".

MOO
I believe Chad called up Julie, because he knew she would believe him, and she would spread his/Lori's side of the story.

This story seems to be that Lori's children needed protection, and there was some sort of custody dispute with the Vallows. Julie then also says Tammy was held at gunpoint by a man dressed in black. Julies says she doesn't know who this is, but suspects it is someone who has a grudge against Chad.

I suspect it was Alex Cox. MOO

Interesting about Lori disappearing temporarily in Feb/Mar.
In January 2019 Chad did an interview/podcast that included Lori:

01.19.2019
07 Time to Warrior Up with Chad Daybell - pt2

This is the 2nd part of an interview with Chad Daybell, author and publisher 25 books on futuristic stories about America and his 2 NDE's (Near Death Experiences). The PAP Arizona team, Jason, Melanie and Lori dig deeper into many ...
https://podcast.app/preparing-a-people-podcast-network-p366035/

In Feb Chad wrote a forward for Melanie Gibb's book-- she is an author that just happens to be in AZ and the podcaster mentioned above. (Note: MG is NOT Lori's niece Melani, despite similar first names and AZ being a common location. However, MG DOES know Lori and did several podcasts with her and with Chad). I wonder if Chad was doing any "speaking engagements" or "conferences" with MG to help promote her book in AZ in Feb/Mar 2019? He could travel to AZ under the guise of "business" but also have a secret rendezvous with Lori while away from his wife Tammy. I wonder if Lori flirted with Chad while he was on the podcast in January (off air of course) and then he reciprocated and made immediate plans to spend time with her again in Feb/Mar? If he didn't go to AZ then I bet Lori went to Idaho for a couple months. MOO.
 
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This post is me catching up with a day's worth of questions, so bear with me on formatting and volume...



Maybe my grandparents were told about this situation (Tammy's parents are usually told a lot about what's happening with all the extended family), but I know for sure no one in my family was ever told about Tammy being held at gunpoint. That's troublesome information to hear.



It is concerning to see how much seems to have been dropped by local law enforcement. I can vouch for Tammy's case that while the family thought it weird that we were all told "Tammy's death must have been natural so we won't do an autopsy", we all decided it was ultimately up to Chad. Boy I wish someone had thought about it a little more...



I'm of the impression that the Daybells cut contact with us at Chad's request, there's talk that he's been telling them we betrayed their family, but I'm not too sure on this.



Chad seemed to be hit hard by grief, or at least that's the impression I got as I was grieving myself and only saw him at the funeral/viewings.



I don't know. I don't think he or Tammy were too big on vacationing, but I wouldn't rule it out for Chad.



Chad and Lori had a line of communication with law enforcement for about a day after the search warrant was executed, but they were uncooperative and kept giving provably false information. I think they kept saying the kids were somewhere new, and when LE would call that place to follow up it would be shown to be another lie.



I don't know exactly, but it was most definitely a 2-way conversation for a bit because I know that one aunt in particular expressed displeasure at what he told them. It could have been Facebook Messenger, or it could have been a phonecall. Regarding current communication: We hardly get bits and pieces from one of his kids. I doubt we hear everything from this source, and it also steps through about 5 people before it gets through the information chain to me. The Daybells skipped visiting family for Christmas this year after they found out they fed us lies from Chad, because they felt guilty. That's what I heard, at least. So I'd be surprised if they are lying about having contact with him.



I am Tammy's nephew, and Chad's (former?) nephew-in-law. Tammy is my dad's sister.



As mentioned above I had no idea this took place. There's no telling if they contacted police or even any of the family. That would be something LE would have to figure out.



On the Douglas side of things, we were told Tammy died and that it was suspected to be of natural causes. Chad used that as justification to not do an autopsy, which while surprising to the family, we decided to accept.

Maxxer, thanks for your input and I’m sorry for your loss! I assume your family has some contact with LE regarding the investigation into Tammy’s death? I feel like they should probably be made aware of the latest video with Julie Rowe (“Mischaracterization of Chad Daybell”) . The fact that she talks about how Chad supposedly “knew” Tammy was going to pass away before she did, and was even grieving her death before her passing might be of interest to them. She said they had multiple conversations about it.

She was trying to defend him but I think she just dropped him in a big vat of boiling water..
 
Maxxer, thanks for your input and I’m sorry for your loss! I assume your family has some contact with LE regarding the investigation into Tammy’s death? I feel like they should probably be made aware of the latest video with Julie Rowe (“Mischaracterization of Chad Daybell”) . The fact that she talks about how Chad supposedly “knew” Tammy was going to pass away before she did, and was even grieving her death before her passing might be of interest to them. She said they had multiple conversations about it.

She was trying to defend him but I think she just dropped him in a big vat of boiling water..
Ha! So you don’t believe that law enforcement is going to buy that Chad “foresaw” Tammy’s death before it happened, because he has some special powers?

Yeah, me neither. That’s called “premeditation.”
 
The press accounts regarding the 2 missing children are IMO baffling at best as its unclear why LE is not naming Lori and Chad as suspects in at minimum child endangerment charges due to the fact that the children haven't been seen since September, 2019.

The fact that both Lori and Chad do appear to be presently speaking to their attorney while publicly doing nothing to explain the location of tLori's 2 children is also troubling but I'm unclear as to why LE is accepting this response from Lori and Chad? The statement from the atty references the pair as being 'loving parents' and given the circumstances this statement isn't making much sense either.

Also of concern is the health and well being of Chad's 5 children IMO.

According to the obituary of his late wife, Chad left 5 children in Rexburg, ID. Who is taking care of these 5 children presently? Is State of ID CPS involved to make sure that the 5 children are safe and being taken care of as they recently lost their mother and their father is on the run and in hiding with his new wife? Are the 5 children in danger and are they in a secure location and being taken care of?

Here is info on Chad's 5 children from his late wifes obit:

Tammy is survived by her husband and five children: Garth Daybell, Emma (Joseph) Murray, Seth (Makayla) Daybell, Leah (Adam) Murphy, and Mark Daybell, who is serving an LDS mission in Johannesburg, South Africa. She was a doting grandma to Chase Murray and Jordan Murphy, with a third grandson, Oliver Daybell, on the way.

Does anyone understand what we are seeing from LE (AZ, ID AND FBI) here regarding Lori's 2 missing children or the Chad Daybell children who are now 'motherless' and apparently living in Rexburg alone now that their father and his new wife are on the run and in hiding? So far I am just seeing LE statements that Chad and Lori are wanted for 'questioning' even though nobody has seen Lori's 2 children since September, 2019?

Did the schools attended by the 2 children not report them missing? If not, WHY? Is ID CPS involved in the investigation and ditto for AZ? I don't understand the delay in reporting the Lori's 2 children missing either and continue to read MSM to figure out what happened.

Are the people in Rexburg, ID that might have known the 2 children and Chad/Lori assisting with the investigation into their disappearance? Charles' sister expressed concern in the GH interview that Rexburg might hold the key to understanding what happened to JJ and his sister but that no information appears to be forthcoming. Why?

Do we know if the FBI CARD team is involved in this case as they certainly would have the resources to assist?

I absolutely feel the pain of the AZ family of JJ as there seems to be little happening to provide clarity to the situation by ID LE. JJ appears to be an 'at risk' child and I also don't understand why broader alert methods haven't been employed by LE and FBI to get the word out more broadly as its likely that with Lori and Chad on the run and not with the 2 children that the children might be on their own or sadly possibly long deceased at this point.

Is this a case where the local community assistance in Rexburg is not forthcoming and LE is at a total loss?

Little about this sad case from the standpoint of a missing persons investigation is making much, if any sense.

MOO
 
The press accounts regarding the 2 missing children are IMO baffling at best as its unclear why LE is not naming Lori and Chad as suspects in at minimum child endangerment charges due to the fact that the children haven't been seen since September, 2019.

The fact that both Lori and Chad do appear to be presently speaking to their attorney while publicly doing nothing to explain the location of Lori's 2 children is also troubling but I'm unclear as to why LE is accepting this response from Lori and Chad? The statement from the atty references the pair as being 'loving parents' and given the circumstances this statement isn't making much sense either.

Does anyone understand what we are seeing from LE (AZ, ID AND FBI) here regarding Lori's 2 missing children as Chad and his new wife are on the run and in hiding? So far I am just seeing LE statements that Chad and Lori are wanted for 'questioning' even though nobody has seen Lori's 2 children since September, 2019?

Did the schools attended by the 2 children not report them missing? If not, WHY? Is ID CPS involved in the investigation and ditto for AZ? I don't understand the delay in reporting the Lori's 2 children missing either and continue to read MSM to figure out what happened.

Are the people in Rexburg, ID that might have known the 2 children and Chad/Lori assisting with the investigation into their disappearance? Charles' sister expressed concern in the GH interview that Rexburg might hold the key to understanding what happened to JJ and his sister but that no information appears to be forthcoming. Why?

Do we know if the FBI CARD team is involved in this case as they certainly would have the resources to assist?

I absolutely feel the pain of the AZ family of JJ as there seems to be little happening to provide clarity to the situation by ID LE. JJ appears to be an 'at risk' child and I also don't understand why broader alert methods haven't been employed by LE and FBI to get the word out more broadly as its likely that with Lori and Chad on the run and not with the 2 children that the children might be on their own or sadly possibly long deceased at this point.

Is this a case where the local community assistance in Rexburg is not forthcoming and LE is at a total loss?

Little about this sad case from the standpoint of a missing persons investigation is making much, if any sense.

MOO
 
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The press accounts regarding the 2 missing children are IMO baffling at best as its unclear why LE is not naming Lori and Chad as suspects in at minimum child endangerment charges due to the fact that the children haven't been seen since September, 2019....
MOO

Most of this has already been discussed a bunch in this thread and the other thread that got filled up before this. The short answer is that at this point there is not evidence or at least not enough to charge them with anything. It's doubtful they can prove any crime was committed, certainly nothing serious.

As for Chad and Tammy's kids, no, CPS is not involved because they are all adults, some married and possibly with kids of their own.

Edit: Even the obit you quoted indicates that the kids are married adults.
 
I do wonder though, when Charles claimed that Lori was gone and "abandoned" them for 2.5 months... did he also mean she left Tylee behind?

Who was taking care of Tylee at that point, was it Charles? Uncle Alex? Did Tylee just take care of herself?
 
So where are they?

"Not knowing where the kids and Daybell are, Rowe said she relies on her visions for comfort—she believes the kids are alive."

“I do know the kids are safe. I can see them,” said Rowe. “I can see their energy and that they’re in a bright house. I can see they’re in the living room where they are. I can see they’re comfortable in bed at night.”

Chad Daybell had a “vision” his wife Tammy would die, friend says
 
"Charles Vallow, 62, came from Texas to visit Lori Vallow and their children. But after he arrived to pick up his son, Charles and Lori Vallow started arguing."

I didn't realize he came all the way from Texas to visit. Was he no longer living in Arizona at the time?

I wonder if she was packing up to move to Idaho when he arrived...

Missing children have possible ties to 2 deaths and people with 'cult-like' beliefs

Of interest to those who are wondering in which state Alex Cox died, Idaho or Arizona:

"This month, on Dec. 12, Cox himself died. The cause of death is unknown at this time, Gilbert Police Officer Dani Covey told The Arizona Republic on Friday. The investigation is pending the results of an autopsy, which could take a few weeks or months, Covey said."

Italics added by me. I would presume this statement by a Gilbert police officer means Alex died in Gilbert, AZ.
 
Most of this has already been discussed a bunch in this thread and the other thread that got filled up before this. The short answer is that at this point there is not evidence or at least not enough to charge them with anything. It's doubtful they can prove any crime was committed, certainly nothing serious.

As for Chad and Tammy's kids, no, CPS is not involved because they are all adults, some married and possibly with kids of their own.

Edit: Even the obit you quoted indicates that the kids are married adults.
I'm not sure I agree that potential charges against Lori (at a minimum) cannot be made at this time regarding the 2 missing children.

I also don't believe that the ages of Chad's youngest children are known based on the info from his late wife's obit. The obit mentions one of the sons being off on mission work so perhaps this would place him in the late teens/early 20s age bracket. IDK. The obit also mentions that grandchildren exist so perhaps there is an age gap/range amongst Chads children too as 3 of the Daybell children appear to be married per the obit. IDK. The fact that the Daybell children appear to be in contact with their father and not assisting LE in their efforts to find Lori's 2 children is also disturbing IMO as at a minimum this appears to represent 'hindering an investigation' and IDK why additional pressure is not being brought to bear against these people at this time?

It appears clear (even amidst the overall murkiness of this case) that Lori had legal responsibility for the 2 children at the time they allegedly disappeared in September.

JJ's late father's sister confirmed to LE that JJ hasn't been seen since September.

The whereabouts of JJ sister, for whom Lori also had legal responsibility, is also unknown.

Here is the ID Statute that might be applicable to the Lori situation with the 2 missing children:

Section 18-1501 – Idaho State Legislature

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 15
CHILDREN AND VULNERABLE ADULTS
18-1501. INJURY TO CHILDREN. (1) Any person who, under circumstances or conditions likely to produce great bodily harm or death, willfully causes or permits any child to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering, or having the care or custody of any child, willfully causes or permits the person or health of such child to be injured, or willfully causes or permits such child to be placed in such situation that its person or health is endangered, is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one (1) year, or in the state prison for not less than one (1) year nor more than ten (10) years.
(2) Any person who, under circumstances or conditions other than those likely to produce great bodily harm or death, willfully causes or permits any child to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering, or having the care or custody of any child, willfully causes or permits the person or health of such child to be injured, or willfully causes or permits such child to be placed in such situation that its person or health may be endangered, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(3) A person over the age of eighteen (18) years commits the crime of injury to a child if the person transports a minor in a motor vehicle or vessel as defined in section 67-7003, Idaho Code, while under the influence of alcohol, intoxicating liquor, a controlled substance, or any combination thereof, in violation of section 18-8004or 67-7034, Idaho Code. Any person convicted of violating this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor. If a child suffers bodily injury or death due to a violation of this subsection, the violation will constitute a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than ten (10) years, unless a more severe penalty is otherwise prescribed by law.
(4) The practice of a parent or guardian who chooses for his child treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to have violated the duty of care to such child.
(5) As used in this section, "willfully" means acting or failing to act where a reasonable person would know the act or failure to act is likely to result in injury or harm or is likely to endanger the person, health, safety or well-being of the child.
History:
[18-1501, added 1977, ch. 304, sec. 3, p. 853; am. 1996, ch. 167, sec. 1, p. 552; am. 1997, ch. 306, sec. 1, p. 910; am. 2001, ch. 49, sec. 1, p. 91; am. 2005, ch. 151, sec. 1, p. 467.]
 
"Three weeks before Tammy’s death, Rowe and Daybell called each other."

“And I asked him, do you still see Tammy dying? And he said yes I do,” said Rowe.

"Tammy was in charge of the finances and covers for Daybell’s books. Rowe said Daybell wanted to get out of the business, but Tammy wanted to keep going."

“He said I’m ready to get out now and Tammy doesn’t want to get out. When she passes, I’m done, I can’t keep doing this,” said Rowe.

Chad Daybell had a “vision” his wife Tammy would die, friend says
 
So where are they?

"Not knowing where the kids and Daybell are, Rowe said she relies on her visions for comfort—she believes the kids are alive."

“I do know the kids are safe. I can see them,” said Rowe. “I can see their energy and that they’re in a bright house. I can see they’re in the living room where they are. I can see they’re comfortable in bed at night.”

Chad Daybell had a “vision” his wife Tammy would die, friend says
Does anyone know whether Rowe has been brought in for questioning by ANY LE given her obvious connection to Chad Daybell?
 
"Three weeks before Tammy’s death, Rowe and Daybell called each other."

“And I asked him, do you still see Tammy dying? And he said yes I do,” said Rowe.

"Tammy was in charge of the finances and covers for Daybell’s books. Rowe said Daybell wanted to get out of the business, but Tammy wanted to keep going."

“He said I’m ready to get out now and Tammy doesn’t want to get out. When she passes, I’m done, I can’t keep doing this,” said Rowe.

Chad Daybell had a “vision” his wife Tammy would die, friend says
What a crock. It ain’t a “vision,” if you make it happen. I can’t wait to hear what the autopsy shows.
 
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