Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[renarde]

Justin Lum Fox10 Phoenix has some documents related to the Brandon shooting along with pictures of his shot out Tesla window:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Yes, and Justin Lum is going to post more documents tomorrow.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

@afitzy

The LDS community is not going to help hide Lori and Chad.

Lori moved from Arizona, so she has probably been lying to everyone from Arizona for months about the kids. She seems to be quite skilled at lying.

Which is why she has been able to get away with evading the "Well Check" on JJ for months. I am actually very impressed with the Rexburg PD for finally nailing her to the wall. Yes, it took awhile, but not that long, really, when you realize that the law is on Lori's side her, she can pull her kids out of school, she has sole custody of her children.

There is no law that can demand a parent to produce a child on demand without cause. So, they had to follow, and track her lies.

The only "error" here, was letting her get away.

I am not one to argue, and hope it’s not perceived as such. I will only say, I’m not quite so sure it truly was rexburg LE. Based on this article that I formerly mentioned here, ARIZONA authorities might be responsible. ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #3
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #3

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Dbm— duplicate

 

[Leney]

Following the money is usually a viable line of inquiry.

Interesting theory you have about Tammy but its unclear that the publishing business made all that much money or it was where Chad's heart was focused at the moment.

I believe we read the other day that Chad had been pushing to shut down the publishing business while Tammy wanted to keep it going. I'm not sure we have much visibility on financial status of the publishing business unfortunately to even know if it had any value without Tammy running it? If Tammy was the backbone of the company and Chad didn't have the skills needed to keep it going, I'm not sure how killing Tammy might help Chad?

Perhaps there was conflict within the Daybell family about whether to keep the business going or not? Perhaps there was conflict also as to which authors to support? Could Chad have been pushing in a more fringe oriented direction that was threatening to Tammy's perhaps more mainstream LDS beliefs? Maybe the couple were at a total impasse as to the the future of the publishing business?

Perhaps Lori agreed with Chad completely about the future direction of his writing and publishing activities and so Tammy no longer was as 'necessary" as she had been in the past?

Lots of possibilities here but sadly no information to see how it might figure into motive?

I suspect we will along with other forms of income such as life insurance, various business ventures.

I simply used Tammy as an example.

For me the LDS Church, and other beliefs are a red herring. It may give us insight into the their mindset at the time, but I don't believe it had anything to do with the various deaths, missing children.

MOO

 

[josephinemarch]

Hi! New here. Just a link to a new article on this case.
International cult expert believes parents of missing Rexburg children are dangerous
nothing groundbreaking, but I appreciated his thoughts.

 

[NvrEndgStry]

Charles Vallow sister has shared that she will be appearing on LIVE PD for a missing persons segment. According to her post, the air date is to be determined & she plans to share that when she knows.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BB has said in the media that it was his ex wife in Tylee's car.

Family of missing children say mother Lori Vallow 'joined cult' | Daily Mail Online

I read the article and nowhere I could find that quote you have above, or anything that led me to believe that she was in the car.

I found "He said Melani used her newfound religious beliefs to try to have him killed in August. " and "His suspicion is driven by the fact that he believes his now ex-wife Melani used her family's newfound religious beliefs to justify killing him. "

 

[Cookies101]

Maybe not with Chad and Lori, but possibly with others in their group that see themselves as devout LDS and don't think involvement in Chad's group precludes that. There are things that are considered normal among Mormons where kids are concerned that aren't considered okay in society in general. Possibly things like this are normalized in Chad and Lori's group, but the church speaking out would get someone to have second thoughts. That said, I don't expect the church would speak out on this for all kinds of reasons. MOO.

BBM
Not really sure what you mean by this. That’s not a very nice generalization you made.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

BBM
Not really sure what you mean by this. That’s not a very nice generalization you made.

Well, not sure if this is something @BigAl16 was referencing, but here you go:
Mormon ex-bishop excommunicated for criticizing church's practice of sexually explicit youth interviews - CNN

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee, kidnappers of Elizabeth Smart, were also quote, "LDS", but no one would think that anyone in the LDS church had a "responsibility" to say that they were crazy.

I put Chad and Lori Daybell in the same category as David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee, LDS...maybe...but they are all as far on the continuum of whacked and crazy, far more than being "LDS".

Agree- Add Josh Powell to the list and the guy from that Netflix doc Abducted in Plain Sight

AFAIK None of those people were popular authors sold in LDS bookstores, nor were their fellow podcasters speakers at LDS officially sanctioned church events.

About Chad | cdaybell.com

2019 Regional Conference Schedule » Wyoming Montana LDS Single Adults

It wouldn't hurt to do a little "distancing ". Moo.

 

[NvrEndgStry]

AFAIK None of those people were popular authors sold in LDS bookstores, nor were their fellow podcasters speakers at LDS officially sanctioned church events.

About Chad | cdaybell.com

2019 Regional Conference Schedule » Wyoming Montana LDS Single Adults

It wouldn't hurt to do a little "distancing ". Moo.

They are perpetrators in other cases.

 

[Maxxer500]

Hi all, I'm underway writing today's update/response post. As I finish it, I just want to say a few things:

• Arguing whether or not Chad/Lori has been excommunicated is pointless. Our only source is Daily Mail, and whether or not they have been doesn't help locating Joshua or Tylee.

• The LDS Church will likely NEVER make any statement about this case (unless Chad/Lori make false claims that need to be clarified). They have no precedent of doing so, and from what I've read they could face legal trouble if they did. Arguing that they should won't change the fact they won't do it.

• AVOW and PAP are different and separate entities from each other, as well as the LDS Church. Please fact check yourself before implying anything different.

If the previous response post is anything to go off of this one may take me upwards of an hour. Thanks.

 

[tresir2012]

Admin Reminder:

Couple of posts have been removed.

Sleuthing family is not allowed unless they are officially named a POI or suspect.

Hi SB, are we allowed to sleuth BB's wife based on the DM article and the tweeted court document that appears to show he knows the shooter?
Many thanks.

 

[tresir2012]

I read the article and nowhere I could find that quote you have above, or anything that led me to believe that she was in the car.

I found "He said Melani used her newfound religious beliefs to try to have him killed in August. " and "His suspicion is driven by the fact that he believes his now ex-wife Melani used her family's newfound religious beliefs to justify killing him. "

From the bullets at the top of the article.

• He accused Melani of trying to kill him in October because of her cult ties.

 

[Maxxer500]

Gonna steal a page from @Gardener1850 's book and put a disclaimer here:
I have only ever posted to Websleuths with details on this case, anyone claiming to be me is lying. If I ever do make statements or posts outside of Websleuths I will post the link to it myself.

With that out of the way, here's another three and a half hours of catching up:

I think our VI said Chad and Lori were married in HI. @Maxxer500?

I'm the VI you reference. I have no concrete knowledge of where Chad and Lori were married, all I know is that my side of the family found out about the marriage at the same time Chad said he was in Hawaii.

What I wonder is why LDS leadership doesn’t issue a statement asking Chad and Lori to tell LE where JJ and Tylee are, and asking any members w/info to come forward. Seriously, why don’t they?

What about a high up bishop making a statement asking them to bring the kids to LE then? Is that out of the question?

I am surprised though that LDS headquarters in SLC, who monitors all kinds of media, wouldn't think it was in their best interest to clarify the membership status of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow Daybell given the high profile nature of the case and the highly disturbing comments regarding the case that have been made by LE in multiple jurisdictions.
Right now IMO there is uncertainty as to Chad and Lori status with the LDS Church. It also seems clear that the Chad views are not in alignment with the LDS beliefs and doctrine (per many comments made here on WS and elsewhere by LDS faithful). Why would the LDS Church not just issue a formal statement on the matter as absent a statement it appears that the LDS Church is supporting Chad Daybell and his beliefs/doctrine? Is the LDS Church sending the 'hidden' message to its members, in not issuing a statement, that its OK for LDS Church members to harbor Chad and Julie from LE and that the Chad and Julie decision to effectively declare JJ and Tylee 'dead' by virtue of Chad saying to LE that "Lori has no minor children" is acceptable to the LDS Church?
When the ex-communication of Julie Rowe happened it was very clear that the status change occurred IMO. I'm not understanding why we aren't seeing something similar with Chad and Julie.
MOO

Has anyone found confirmation of Chad Daybell being ex-communicated from LDS Church?
I keep searching MSM for another source other than DM and cannot find anything.
LDS Social Media is IMO all over the map on the issue (non TOS) so I am unsure what the correct answer is about the LDS status of Chad Daybell.

The only source claiming Chad has been excommunicated is Daily Mail, which does not have a stellar reputation. Based on precedent from the LDS Church, unless Chad or someone close to him speaks out we will never know if he has been excommunicated. They will likely never make a statement about this case either (from what I've read they could get in legal trouble if they did). Having the LDS Church make a statement will likely have no impact on this case, in large part because your everyday practicing LDS member already agrees that Chad and Lori should just show us the kids. The people who may be involved in hiding the kids have likely already stopped listening to most LDS practice.

Do we have any idea of how much money could have been generated by this 'paywall AVOW business'? How much would a subscription have cost? I've been searching on wayback and couldn't figure this out unfortunately.
The AVOW folks have been quite cagey about the entire situation IMO and removed all the Chad and Lori podcasts and issued a statement on the matter as well. But, I do wonder if LE knows how many people might be involved in the 'paywall AVOW business' as this list of people might just who could perhaps be sheltering Chad and Lori from LE and stopping LE from getting answers about what is really important which is the status of JJ and Tylee IMO.
MOO

I have a screenshot I will try to attach that outlines AVOW's first-layer paywall. You can find this info easily on their official website. I do not know what the deeper, second-layer paywall looks like.
Edit: Despite reminding myself multiple times I forgot to attach it. It should be there now, sorry.

Yes, I get what you are saying about Chad and Lori not being able to go back to Chad's ward, but it does seem strange that Chad hadn't attended his local church since the death of Tammy as prior to this the poster said that he was attending regularly.
But it also appears that no Elder or other senior member from the LDS ward where Chad attended has spoken out either. No general statement that I can find expressing concern about the 2 missing children etc. Its almost as if the church is choosing silence deliberately as a simple statement about the welfare of the children might even help the situation? IDK, its disappointing IMO to not see more deliberate statements by the Church in the face of the statements made by LE as to what Lori and Chad have actually said. Perhaps the Church doesn't view it as their role? But, if the perception is that the Chad belief system is not in alignment with mainstream LDS, then I'm not sure what the Church might be waiting for before speaking out?
All this regarding Chad and Lori status with the LDS Church might not be important. But, I do think LDS members might be looking for direction on how to proceed and it would be awful if people might think its ok to shelter or offer assistance to Chad and Lori during this time of uncertainty as to the status of JJ and Tylee IMO. Rexburg is 90% LDS and its likely that places Chad and Lori might go are similarly LDS focused. People care what the Church thinks IMO and to the extent that there is a lack of clarity, I'm not sure that is a good thing in terms of getting information on the 2 missing children.
MOO

An Elder has no authority to speak for the LDS Church. Even the ward's Bishop or one of his counselors does not have the authority to speak for the church. It'd be like the cashier at the corporate grocery store also serving as the spokesperson.
Not making public statements about situations such as this case is well in precedence of the LDS Church. See my previous post.
My family, friends of my family, and many others in my life are LDS. They all want Chad and Lori to show us the kids. Only the people who have cut contact with me and my family have unclear stances.

@cocomod, thanks for this clarification.
But if the LDS Church did decide to denounce Chad Daybell then do you think that this might prompt more cooperation from his 5 children who by all accounts are not cooperating with LE to find their father or the 2 missing children?
I'm thinking also that it might just be a bit awkward for these various Daybell children to attend weekly services given the situation with their father/his new wife and the fact that 2 children are missing (to say nothing of their mother being exhumed etc.)? I'm having a tough time reconciling the choices of the Daybell children (or even Tammy's family whose status regarding assisting the investigation is unknown per MSM) regarding this investigation in the context of their LDS religious beliefs. Maybe the situation of religious beliefs (LDS or otherwise) doesn't enter the picture when making the decision to assist LE? IDK, right and wrong in this case of 2 missing children seems to be fairly clear IMO so to see this playing out this way is hard to understand. IDK.
By all MSM accounts the children of Chad Daybell are all LDS and yet they are choosing it sadly seems to not work with LE to find the 2 missing children and have publicly stated their support of their father via the statement of the atty.
MOO

Hi I'm one of Tammy's relatives. On the Douglas side of things we are in full support of finding the missing kids and cooperating with law enforcement wherever they ask us (I don't know how much they've contacted anyone in the family). We haven't been public because we don't want to lose the Daybell kids, and making public statements condemning their father is a pretty good way to lose them. As it stands the family has been displeased with my activity here on WS.
The Daybell kids have likely been instructed by the lawyer Chad set them up with to not get involved. I wish they would cooperate with LE, but I'm in no position to convince them to.

Maybe the Daybell children, as someone said elsewhere on the thread, are against autopsies, cremations, etc.; and thus are ticked off that Tammy is going to be exhumed. My folks are pretty evangelical, and they're even (still) against opting for organ donation. (OT: I always want to point out that it's a little odd that people who clearly, at least theoretically, believe that God can do anything; are worried about Him eventually arising cremated and partially disembodied bodies; when they clearly aren't particularly worried about what happens to skeletons with zero organs or skin; but I digress.)

I've never heard anything about the Daybells being against autopsy, though the topic certainly never came up. The reason everyone was ticked off about Tammy's exhumation was no one was notified, so we first heard about it through the news weeks after it happened.

Didn't one of our VI's state that Chad's children also cut ties with Tammy's side of the family? This could imply that they remained loyal to their father on the matter of their mother's death.

I'm the VI you reference. The Daybell kids have cut contact with the Douglas side of the family, with very little exception. We were lucky enough to be invited to the re-dedication of Tammy's grave, where only 1 Daybell kid attended. Even if I had contact with them though, I would not dare get near asking them about Tammy's death. It's been 2 months, and if I haven't finished grieving her there's no way they have.

I don't think there is anything to be gained by talking about Tammy's children. 1. I don't think they know anything. 2. We don't know what they know or who they are helping or not helping. 3. I feel, MOO, they never met Tylee or JJ.

I have been saying this from the beginning but people won't drop it.

Excerpt from @Maxxer500's December 27 post:
"The Daybell kids have been in communication with their dad for a while now. Despite Chad and Lori being missing. From what I've heard, this line of contact has been kept as long as the kids don't talk with law enforcement. They've taken this a step further and cut communication with the extended family on their mom's side, which includes me."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #2

I want to clarify/reiterate that it is totally possible that the Daybell kids are only in contact with Chad via lawyer. I haven't heard anything to suggest they've had direct contact with him, and the fact they're now pointing people to the same lawyer as Chad makes me think that lawyer has a lot going on right now.

In the DailyMail story linked yesterday
One of the couple’s five children who answered the door at the Daybells’ neat single-story brick house in Salem, Idaho, said he had been told he must not say anything about the case.
He referred DailyMail.com to the couple’s lawyer Sean Bartholick who had no comment.

The fact he referred them to Chad's lawyer makes me think that Sean Bartholick is the lawyer Chad set them up with.

Secret from who? Do you think Tammy didn't know about it?

I'm trying to recall the context to this quote but if I'm remembering right: (The money from Chad's paywall shenanigans)
Chad's involvement in AVOW and PAP was a surprise to the family (please recall that AVOW is where his paywall exists). Everyone was surprised when he skipped town and told us he remarried. He's been hiding things from everyone already, to think he also hid such things from Tammy isn't that far fetched. I personally like to think that based on Tammy's character she would have been displeased in Chad monetizing his "visions", especially since he was supposedly putting reference of his visions in his books.

Alrighty, another catch-up post down. As always, if you feel I missed your post or need further clarification throw me an @Maxxer500 or quote me. I've been sick for a day now but I won't let that keep me from responding.

 

[tresir2012]

TY @Maxxer500 I hope you feel better soon. I did notice that AVOW still have Chad's books for sale on the website now, so I think Tammy would have known about this as she was the business side for the book marketing.

 

[Maxxer500]

TY @Maxxer500 I hope you feel better soon. I did notice that AVOW still have Chad's books for sale on the website now, so I think Tammy would have known about this as she was the business side for the book marketing.

That is a fair point I hadn't thought of. I wonder how much she knew of his activity on AVOW?

 

[osu]

Justin Lum Fox10 Phoenix has some documents related to the Brandon shooting along with pictures of his shot out Tesla window:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Here’s the Fox 10 article and photos from FB:

“Fox 10 has obtained court documents confirming what happened to Brandon Boudreaux on October 2 of 2019. Boudreaux is the ex-husband of Lori Vallow’s niece - Melani. The car shown below is Boudreaux’s Tesla with a bullet hole and broken window. Gilbert Police say Boudreaux came home from the gym that morning when a suspect shot at him, missing his head by inches. The shooter was parked in a car outside and drove off after the attack. By this time, Boudreaux says his ex-wife had moved to Idaho, following her aunt Lori to join Chad Daybell’s religious group. A text message shows Melani telling Boudreaux “the kids could remain with you in Arizona.”

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[osu]

Attorneys we've spoken to say this is why officers haven't arrested Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow for lying about their missing kids' location.

They are now finding similarities between this case and the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell.

Adam Herbets on Twitter

 

[osu]

Attorney: This is why police haven’t arrested parents who lied about missing children in Rexburg
1 day ago

Greg Skordas, a defense attorney and former prosecutor not involved in the case, said he is becoming increasingly discouraged that the children will be found alive. He believes police have enough evidence to arrest Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow – but are strategically choosing not to do so at this time.

“Hopefully we will (find the children alive), but it seems more and more doubtful every day,” Skordas said. “The mother said that her daughter had died a year earlier, which is clearly not true. The stepfather said that she didn’t have any children at all, which was clearly not true… I know a lot of people are frustrated. They might say, ‘Well she’s not cooperating! That’s a crime all by itself!’ It absolutely is, but it’s not the crime that these agencies are trying to solve… They could probably file immediately obstruction of justice charges, but I think they’re waiting until they have enough evidence to file homicide charges, and that would be horrible.”
.....
There are a lot of very freakish cults in our country right now. (Police) maybe looking at writings or things that they find about this religion and things that the stepfather has written himself to try to say he was headed in a certain direction,” Skordas said. “Maybe he even prophesized about something like this.”
....
Skordas said he expects the pending autopsy of Tammy Daybell (regardless of the outcome) may be the last thing police are waiting for before filing charges against Chad Daybell or Lori Vallow. “If they can establish that (Tammy Daybell) died as a result of homicide, that really raises the bar for the prosecutor,” Skordas said. “It’s a difficult case for a prosecutor to file a homicide charge without a dead body, but it’s not impossible.”
....
We’ve had similar cases like the Josh Powell case where I think the police were waiting for him to do something foolish and draw them to his wife’s body. He never did,” Skordas said. “The police and prosecutors in Idaho have elected not to take that drastic step (to make an arrest) yet. I think it’s probably forthcoming if we don’t have these children pretty soon… You would expect their mother to do everything she could to find them. To take care of them. To help the police. She’s done just the opposite, which is really troubling.”

More at link:
Attorney: This is why police haven’t arrested parents who lied about missing children in Rexburg