Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

[PheonixWolf]

Yes.

Thank you for all the help you have been RS. I have been reading about patriarchal blessings. Do you feel that If Lori or Chad had one, that this patriarch issuing a statement could help?

 

[Rush4087]

Don't foget to take into account that Alex was in Las Vegas getting married at the end of November.

What is the source for the Jeep (the one reportedly used in the attack on Brandon) being found (impounded) in Idaho? A potential source of this info has been refuted here twice so far, so I'm wondering if you have a different one.

From a previous post. I will go back and find it. I have read every post from day one and don't recall the post I'm referring to being discredited, but if I missed something, I very much apologize. The last thing I want to do is cause confusion. I'll report back

 

[Jethro4WS]

So I see some new articles have been put out today. These have me a couple of points for us to discuss.

1) the article about Alex and Lori fighting. My thoughts are that he committed suicide and have been since day one pretty much. With that said this makes me believe that even more due three reasons. One being that the fight with Lori is very telling, especially the quote " you're a disgrace to the family", 2) the shooting of CV may have just got to him in that way, and 3) the most obvious having something to hide like all of this criminal behavior. I think it stands to reason that he probably felt pretty worthless in life considering his back ground.

2) Sometimes blended families, even new ones, will refer to the parents of a new spouse as grandma and grandpa. So with that I wonder if LE has questioned CD's parents. Could the children have been taken there temporarily until CD and LV could pick them up?

3) if the children are staying with someone and with JJ's ADD/ADHD could we assume that it's either someone well known to them or could it be someone unfamiliar? I don't have any knowledge of children with these traits so could JJ handle being with an unfamiliar person? I feel like this would be something that he could only handle if the people were familiar to him. MOO

Point number 2 is possible. My experience in chasing down people hiding children when it comes to LDS is that movement and/or a place to stay is facilitated through grandparents or great-grandparents of the mother. They often have friends that are landlords or have rooms available and those people tend to have long friendships with the grandparents (or great-grandparents). If there is further movement it goes down the family tree of the person that married into (i.e. the in-law side) the grandparent relationship. With the name differences it is harder to trace in that connections aren't obvious on the surface. This applies to Lori's parents equally as well.

As for Point 3 it is my strong opinion that JJ is absolutely with someone he knows. It is possible that being with Tylee is enough no matter if the hosts are known to Tylee. However, I expect that Tylee and JJ are with, or have easy access to, someone known to both. That is because even in the case that Tylee is enough for JJ, Tylee is only 17 and will need access to resources via people she knows.

The complication in this case is due to the participants ages. In the cases I have pursued those were younger mothers with young children, more importantly the children were known to be with the mother, and the grandparents in those cases were of the age range of Lori/Chad. So, it is possible that facilitation of movement and/or a place to stay can occur with people connected to Chad/Lori who would either be landlords or otherwise have places to accommodate the children. Everything comes down to how long they have known Chad/Lori, how much trust exists, and their willingness to believe Chad/Lori over any other person saying what was/is going on.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019

Oh good... someone has already said it, so it must have been sourced. Please help me find the original source for: "Chad has a 2011 Chevy Equinox. no plate numbers".

Let's just say until I'm verified (how long does this take?) it might be black and might have Idaho plate with 1M or 2F at the beginning. 2F is Fremont county, 1M is Madison (Rexburg is county seat of Madison and many folks in Salem register there). And as big of a hurry Chad was in to leave the house because of her memories around every corner, it strikes me as odd that he would take Tammy's Chevy that would have smelled of her perfume and stuff...over his own truck.

 

[BigAl16]

Yes. The weekend following the memorial service was stake conference (LDS stake is a larger geographic area than a ward. A ward could be considered a neighborhood. A stake is a collection of wards). Anyway, Nov 3 would have been the next Sunday for the ward to meet. It was either the 3rd or 10th. That same day the Bishop announced from the pulpit that if anyone needed to schedule a meeting, to do so with another brother of the ward. I forgot this in the original post. Prior to Chad's departure, he was not excommunicated, but in fact the Executive Secretary of the ward, meaning he handled the Bishop's meeting schedule and such. Then it was Nov 17th or so when I heard Chad was remarried. I thought that was way strange as did many in the ward and neighborhood.

Edit: Also, Chad worked from home on his books, so I was aware of his absence from time to time and I knew there were speaking engagements and book signings. But I wasn't aware of any time he was gone for an extended time. Especially during this period as it was a busy time for me at both work and in church due to my own assignments. I wasn't in the ward very often in January through March.

Has he been release from his calling in the ward or is he technically still the Executive Secretary? If released, do you remember when that happened.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Sweet in my own mind I think I have it figured out. So off topic would an “apostle” of the LDS church be similar to a cardinal, and the president of the LDS church be similar to the pope, but also recognized as being a prophet?

Yes, similar in position on both accounts. Just below Apostles are General Authority Seventies (Luke 10:17) and Area Authority Seventies, both addressed as Elder so and so. General are assigned to worldwide efforts and church institutions, Area authorities to local areas larger than stakes.

 

[PheonixWolf]

Yes.

Yes, similar in position on both accounts. Just below Apostles are General Authority Seventies (Luke 10:17) and Area Authority Seventies, both addressed as Elder so and so. General are assigned to worldwide efforts and church institutions, Area authorities to local areas larger than stakes.

Got it. Thank you! And thank you for contributing.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Has he been release from his calling in the ward or is he technically still the Executive Secretary? If released, do you remember when that happened.

Another was called for the position by December and we released him at that point (wards vote in congregation to initiate such callings, but a simple sign of thanks when releasing). I remember checking the ward roster (LDS Tools app) after he left and his name still being there through November. I don't specifically remember it being removed, but it isn't there now. I assumed he moved his records to wherever he moved to (maybe the Pioneer Road address?).

 

[BigAl16]

So.. a ward is like a congregation or parish. A Stake is like a diocese or region consisting of many wards. Probably due to the high concentration of LDS families in one area there it would be smaller than a diocese geographically, but the same idea? Would that be accurate?

That comparison is exactly the one I always use to describe it. I think the main area where you could go astray is that a Catholic or most other denominations have their individual parish or congregations that meet in a particular building and could draw from anyone in the area who wanted to come there. At least that is my understanding. So St Peter's and St Paul's churchs might be in the same town and John might go to St Peter's, a few miles one direction, and his neighbor might go to St Paul's, which is a block or two away in the same direction such that you drive right by it to get to St Peter's. A Mormon ward is a very clearly defined geographical area and you're generally expected to go to the ward that is defined for your area. (There are exceptions, primarily in areas densely populated with Mormons, where there are what I'll call specialty wards, either specifically for students or for single adults, which appear to have become more common over the years and which I don't know the rules for, but the normal family with kids are going to be expected to attend the ward that covers their neighborhood.) Also, it is typical for 2 or 3 wards to use the same church building with timing of services each Sunday scheduled to fit all of them during the day.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Thank you for all the help you have been RS. I have been reading about patriarchal blessings. Do you feel that If Lori or Chad had one, that this patriarch issuing a statement could help?

Good question. I have one, as do my children and wife. I don't think it would help. In very, very, very rare cases do patriarchs include specific items such as callings (positions) in the church. Mine just includes general topics with things I should be wary of. I do have some things specific such as I should seek education and develop talents. It's better directed to members than a horoscope, but generally doesn't include specifics. Chad and Lori may be exceptions.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Oh good... someone has already said it, so it must have been sourced. Please help me find the original source for: "Chad has a 2011 Chevy Equinox. no plate numbers".

Let's just say until I'm verified (how long does this take?) it might be black and might have Idaho plate with 1M or 2F at the beginning. 2F is Fremont county, 1M is Madison (Rexburg is county seat of Madison and many folks in Salem register there). And as big of a hurry Chad was in to leave the house because of her memories around every corner, it strikes me as odd that he would take Tammy's Chevy that would have smelled of her perfume and stuff...over his own truck.

It might be worth taking a look at the news videos from last Friday's search warrant. I honestly can't remember if they panned on any vehicles at his residence or not. But I assume you know what's missing from the property. JMO

 

[PheonixWolf]

That comparison is exactly the one I always use to describe it. I think the main area where you could go astray is that a Catholic or most other denominations have their individual parish or congregations that meet in a particular building and could draw from anyone in the area who wanted to come there. At least that is my understanding. So St Peter's and St Paul's churchs might be in the same town and John might go to St Peter's, a few miles one direction, and his neighbor might go to St Paul's, which is a block or two away in the same direction such that you drive right by it to get to St Peter's. A Mormon ward is a very clearly defined geographical area and you're generally expected to go to the ward that is defined for your area. (There are exceptions, primarily in areas densely populated with Mormons, where there are what I'll call specialty wards, either specifically for students or for single adults, which appear to have become more common over the years and which I don't know the rules for, but the normal family with kids are going to be expected to attend the ward that covers their neighborhood.) Also, it is typical for 2 or 3 wards to use the same church building with timing of services each Sunday scheduled to fit all of them during the day.

Thank you

 

[PheonixWolf]

Good question. I have one, as do my children and wife. I don't think it would help. In very, very, very rare cases do patriarchs include specific items such as callings (positions) in the church. Mine just includes general topics with things I should be wary of. I do have some things specific such as I should seek education and develop talents. It's better directed to members than a horoscope, but generally doesn't include specifics. Chad and Lori may be exceptions.

Thank you for your honest answer.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

It might be worth taking a look at the news videos from last Friday's search warrant. I honestly can't remember if they panned on any vehicles at his residence or not. But I assume you know what's missing from the property. JMO

Yes, Chad's Chevy was not present. From my knowledge, has not been present since Oct 24, except once or twice, if that.

The people residing there are one of Chad's unwed sons, who also lived there before Tammy's death, and another son and his wife. Their cars are all I have seen regularly at the residence.

Edit: I removed "Chad" from "The people residing there are Chad one of Chad's..." as it was incorrect. Chad has not lived there since October 24.

 

[BigAl16]

Another was called for the position by December and we released him at that point (wards vote in congregation to initiate such callings, but a simple sign of thanks when releasing). I remember checking the ward roster (LDS Tools app) after he left and his name still being there through November. I don't specifically remember it being removed, but it isn't there now. I assumed he moved his records to wherever he moved to (maybe the Pioneer Road address?).

Right, at the point he moved then release from the position would be happening regardless. We've had someone else who was also in Chad's Salem ward who has commented with much the same story as you (he was there until Tammy died, then gone). I've argued that even though some news sources (Daily Mail) have said he was excommunicated that it almost surely was not true because he wouldn't have been acting as Executive Secretary if he'd been excommunicated since Tammy's death and it appears he's been more or less unavailable since. I hadn't thought about him having his records moved to the new Rexburg ward which, even if excommunication was being considered, would only slow down and complicate things, right?

 

[PheonixWolf]

That comparison is exactly the one I always use to describe it. I think the main area where you could go astray is that a Catholic or most other denominations have their individual parish or congregations that meet in a particular building and could draw from anyone in the area who wanted to come there. At least that is my understanding. So St Peter's and St Paul's churchs might be in the same town and John might go to St Peter's, a few miles one direction, and his neighbor might go to St Paul's, which is a block or two away in the same direction such that you drive right by it to get to St Peter's. A Mormon ward is a very clearly defined geographical area and you're generally expected to go to the ward that is defined for your area. (There are exceptions, primarily in areas densely populated with Mormons, where there are what I'll call specialty wards, either specifically for students or for single adults, which appear to have become more common over the years and which I don't know the rules for, but the normal family with kids are going to be expected to attend the ward that covers their neighborhood.) Also, it is typical for 2 or 3 wards to use the same church building with timing of services each Sunday scheduled to fit all of them during the day.

You are correct. A member can choose which parish they belong to if they have a hose options. Overlap. It sounds like an LDS member can’t?? Please correct if I am wrong. This is moo.

 

[SuziQ]

I agree. I think establishing a timeline of Alex's travels (incl. identifying the vehicles he used and who may have accompanied him) might help solve several mysteries and possible crimes, including: the whereabouts of the children, the present location of Chad & Lori (if LE doesn't already know), the attempted shooting of BB, the supposed paintball gun incident, and even AC's death (if it turns out it wasn't due to natural causes).

At various times I think AC could have been driving Tylee's Jeep, or (pure speculation) CV's truck, or possibly other vehicles. He could have been accompanied by others traveling in other vehicles. Obviously if LE clarified which possibly-involved vehicles were accounted for and which were missing, it would be helpful to WS'ers, but I can understand them wanting to keep this info close to the vest.

A few of my assumptions (trigger warning - if theorizing bothers you and you prefer to only/exclusively read about established or newly uncovered facts, I suggest you skip):

-In July I think Tylee's Jeep was at the house where CV was shot

-Around Aug 31 I think Tylee's Jeep was perhaps used by AC as one of two vehicles used for the trip from AZ to ID (as 5 people and their belongings might not easily fit into just one vehicle). If there was a second vehicle on the trip, I speculate that it could have been either CV's truck (an F 150 which remained at the house following the shooting?), Lori's Rogue, or even a vehicle belonging to AC's soon-to-be wife, who had an address in Gilbert, AZ (could she have been the "friend" on the trip?). Again, all speculation. There are certainly other possibilities for vehicles, but I do not think the second vehicle was AC's "car", as a previous thread post mentioned that AC had given his car to CR during this time.

-In September, if Tylee's Jeep, and possibly AC (though this is yet unproven) were involved in the 10/2 attempted shooting of BB in AZ, then AC had to have driven the Jeep back down to AZ sometime in Sept. It's even possible that the trip back down to AZ occurred in late Sept (after JJ was unenrolled on 9/24) and included the kids, but this is pure speculation.

-In Oct/Nov, in between the attempted shooting of BB in AZ on 10/2 and the sighting of AC "loading a truck" in ID on or about 11/26 (and keeping in mind that the Jeep was reportedly impounded in Dec in ID), someone (again, I think Alex) had to have driven the Jeep from AZ back up to ID in Oct. or Nov. Going a step further, if AC was perhaps involved in the reported paintball incident in ID on 10/9 involving TD (though as yet there's no factual basis for thinking this), it would further narrow the return trip window to between 10/2 and 10/9.

-11/26-12/12 If AC died in AZ on 12/12 (yet the Jeep was impounded in ID in Dec), how did AC get back down to AZ? After helping Lori pack "a truck" around 11/26, did he perhaps leave Rexburg at the same time as (or maybe even together with) Chad & Lori)? Did he (or they) head to AZ? While no autopsy results have been released on AC's death, his death seems suspicious to me (based on previous thread post, I thought the description/symptoms could fit a poisoning). AC may have known too much. If he was perhaps poisoned, who might have had motive to kill him?

Summarizing, if a detailed timeline of AC's travels could be established (incl. respective vehicle's), maybe surveillance footage or some other evidence could then be collected that would help locate the children and solve some of the mysteries of this case. Sorry if too much theorizing.

IMO. I think Lori, Chad, Melani, Alex, and the soon to be spouses all left Idaho the same day and went to Vegas for the weddings. From there they may have gone to Az. At least Alex did. From there, who knows.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

You are correct. A member can choose which parish they belong to if they have a hose options. Overlap. It sounds like an LDS member can’t?? Please correct if I am wrong. This is moo.

It is discouraged, but not impossible. I know of families who move to a temporary location for work or school, but remain in their "home ward".

 

[BigAl16]

haha. Ok so to clarify more (forgive me for using Protestant/catholic terminology) that is what I am most familiar with.

An LDS bishop is a local congregations(ward) pastor. An LDS stake president is more like a diocese bishop over an area of congregations/wards.

yes?

One other factor to keep in mind is that at this level Mormon clergy is unpaid, lay ministers who hold down day jobs with their "calling" (church assignment) being like a volunteer position although they don't volunteer for it. When you get at the upper echelon the no special training still applies, but the no money no longer does, but they're also doing it full time.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

IMO. I think Lori, Chad, Melani, Alex, and the soon to be spouses all left Idaho the same day and went to Vegas for the weddings. From there they may have gone to Az. At least Alex did. From there, who knows.

No. I know this isn't the case. Chad and Lori were reported to me to have wed earlier (prior to Nov 17) and Lori was not with Chad during Thanksgiving weekend. I hope to explain later.
Gotta run. ...and yes, I'm sorry for that cliffhanger.