Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[indicolite22]

Right. This makes zero sense. Maybe I'm wrong, but hasn't LE explicitly said there are no custody battles going on? Plus, we only have two kids involved here. One is within a year of custody being a non-issue anyway and both of them Lori is the only surviving parent with any reasonable legal claim to having custody rights.

So there's no danger of her being declared an unfit mother for claiming that she was a god and similar crazy stuff?

 

[mickey2942]

The custody battle may now be with the authorities because of the "serious danger" the kids are in from the remaining live parent. :-(

IMO there could be someone acting on behalf of that dead parent. In loco parentis - could be an executor and/or a trustee or the authorities believing those kids are in danger. The kids may not realise they are in danger.

There would be zero custody battle for Tylee. Lori is her legal and biological Mother.

JJ, his biological Grandmother has a chance of gaining custody, if Lori is proven to be an unfit Mother. But, not letting him talk to Grandma is hardly evidence.

I believe that the kids are dead. Otherwise, Lori would have produced JJ, and no drama.

 

[tresir2012]

It was @RexburgSleuth the verified family friend, though there may have been others such as Maxxer500. Here are a couple links to some of his posts regarding some of the above:

"I can't say there was anything in Chad's behavior leading up to Tammy's funeral that was suspicious. I can say that my interaction with him on the day of her memorial (Oct 23) was short and felt rushed and weird. My wife said the same about her interaction with him the following day (Oct 24). That was the last I saw him even from a distance." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Chad was there for Tammy's funeral, memorial service, and gone the next day."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

RexburgSleuth quoting someone else who quoted another VI @Maxxer500 -
""The last time I personally was in contact with Chad was probably Tammy's funeral, and for some family members about a week after remarrying (I heard about him marrying Lori exactly 2 weeks after Tammy's funeral). He included nothing about kids and said he would never visit the family in Utah or something like that. We were all pretty upset by that, because it felt disrespectful to Tammy's memory to instantly detach from the family. At the time he was in Hawaii and apparently told his parents they were free to visit, though I don't know if they did. No one knew he planned to remarry, and we were all in disbelief at the fact that he would remarry 2 weeks after Tammy's death. (I wanted to add: this marriage, if actually officiated, must have been a civil marriage. Getting a temple marriage for your first marriage is enough of a process as it is, let alone this being a 2nd or 5th/6th marriage.)"" (Added by me - this is Maxxer500's quote, BBM)
"Yes. That sounds accurate to what I've been told as far as substance and timeline, and reflects the sentiments of those I know regarding his marriage so soon after Tammy's death." BBM
"ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"My concerns began at the speediness of the funeral and memorial service (3 and 4 days following her death respectively). Then Chad was grieving and moved out before a week had passed." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Given she died in Idaho, lived in Idaho, worked in Idaho at two Idaho schools prior to death, it was strange to me--maybe only to me--that the funeral wasn't here for people to grieve near her open or closed casket first. Then perhaps another service in Utah for the former friends and family that resided there before interment. It just felt rushed without the opportunity for so many who knew her to have closure. It was magnified by Chad's moving out immediately." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"I am unaware of the length or additional gatherings that may have taken place in Utah, but the memorial service in Rexburg had no luncheon or other services. Yet, Chad said in the service Tammy considered Salem her home."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"The service in Idaho was (Oct 23) the day after Tammy's interment (Oct 22) in the cemetery Springville, UT. There was a viewing in Utah the night before. I did not see family from Utah that I am aware of. I'm not aware of a lunch in Utah, but there could have been, most likely was one. Again, I may be the only one who thought it was weird to do funeral and interment there and then have a short memorial service here. MOO: I would have held a viewing and funeral services in Idaho first for those who needed closure at casket-side, then do the same in Utah for those who knew her there. I've seen that done multiple times. It also allows for distant relatives to travel as needed. A funeral isn't for the deceased, but for all those who need to grieve the loss. My sense is that I'm not alone in thinking it was weird to be so fast." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Yes. The weekend following the memorial service was stake conference (LDS stake is a larger geographic area than a ward. A ward could be considered a neighborhood. A stake is a collection of wards). Anyway, Nov 3 would have been the next Sunday for the ward to meet. It was either the 3rd or 10th. That same day the Bishop announced from the pulpit that if anyone needed to schedule a meeting, to do so with another brother of the ward. I forgot this in the original post. Prior to Chad's departure, he was not excommunicated, but in fact the Executive Secretary of the ward, meaning he handled the Bishop's meeting schedule and such. Then it was Nov 17th or so when I heard Chad was remarried. I thought that was way strange as did many in the ward and neighborhood." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Another was called for the position by December and we released him at that point (wards vote in congregation to initiate such callings, but a simple sign of thanks when releasing). I remember checking the ward roster (LDS Tools app) after he left and his name still being there through November. I don't specifically remember it being removed, but it isn't there now. I assumed he moved his records to wherever he moved to (maybe the Pioneer Road address?)." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"I'm also not aware of any disciplinary action taken, informal or formal. I would think that if such action had taken place, Chad would not have been Executive Secretary up until the time he left the ward. In fact, I fairly certain I remember the Bishop saying that they would welcome him back. That would have been Nov 3rd when it was announced that another would be filling in interim to handle the bishop's appointment schedule."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

The only thing I can't find specifically is the removal of Tammy's belongings, so that may have been rumor/hearsay that I picked up somehow. Here is RS's post mentioning it though:

"Verified: Chad left the Daybell home Oct 24th the day after Tammy's memorial. He may have returned for things later, but that is not known. What happened to Tammy's belongings in the home is also not known. They may still be there AFAIK.
Verified: Chad was not released from his calling as Executive Secretary until after about Nov 10th or 17th, I can't recall."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

Many thanks for that. I missed them first time around.

ETA I'll tag @Gardener1850 in case the dates are useful for the timeline.

 

[tresir2012]

There would be zero custody battle for Tylee. Lori is her legal and biological Mother.

JJ, his biological Grandmother has a chance of gaining custody, if Lori is proven to be an unfit Mother. But, not letting him talk to Grandma is hardly evidence.

I believe that the kids are dead. Otherwise, Lori would have produced JJ, and no drama.

I agree the custody would not apply to Tylee unless it were the state acting to protect them from danger.

 

[indicolite22]

Don't forget the rushed funeral and burial (all within three days - when normally it takes closer to a week - and in a different state), VI's also said Chad was acting strange during this time, at the memorial service, and by having his children clear out her belongings from the home.

ETA: Also Chad disappearing with no apparent contact with his Bishop, forcing him to be released from his calling as executive secretary.

I don't remember reading about Tammy's belongings being cleared out quickly before. It's a touchy subject for me, as I had a similar situation in my family recently. I can't imagine his children not feeling hurt by it. Chad did not return to live in the family home after the funeral anyway. The rest is maybe not so out of the ordinary, apart from Chad's absence.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

JMO

I also agree that Chad sent TD to see her parents as a last goodbye (unbeknownst to poor unsuspecting TD). In retrospect, I am not aware of any event or action of CD's that took place in Rexburg on that date that reveals a reason why he would've needed TD out of the house or out of town then (even post potato harvest, or whatever). What, just so he could spend a day or two with Lori? Seems pretty risky to me. For one thing, they might've been seen together. And I don't think he disappeared the kids, I think that was perpetrated by members of the Cox family.

I think Chad's act of sending TD was, in retrospect, clear evidence that he knew in advance that Tammy would soon be killed. Jmo, but I believe that CD either poisoned TD himself, or knew that she would soon be poisoned by someone else. I can't wait for the autopsy results to be made public.

Again moo, but just as I don't buy all the other visions, dreams, reincarnation, and translated- being nonsense in this case from Joseph Smith, AVOW, JR, Lori, and CD, I don't buy that CD just "envisioned" or dreamed or witnessed TD's upcoming death - I believe he fantasized it. I believe he was planning it. I believe he knew it was wrong and was trying to somehow assuage his guilt.

Imo his sending TD to her parents for a last goodbye was evidence of his waning grasp on morality and reality, his growing confusion over right and wrong, good and evil. It was evidence of his rationalization built on the delusions and self-worship he had nurtured over the preceding two decades of his life. Reality was slipping away. It had been replaced by dreams and visions. He belonged to a cult.

What's bizarre is that he actually may have loved her even as he was planning her upcoming death. Imo it speaks to the extent of his (and other's in this case) radical delusion, which to me, bordered on insanity. Apocalypse now.

Very well stated...CD has built up his timeline of religion/vision/fantasy and lost grip of reality after his ego inflated by an audience of like minded. CD got enough attention in his little speaking engagements and podcasts he considers himself a rockstar in his own world. Add in blonde women thinking his is all that and now you get a nice little affair but..hurry and get married to mask anyone thinking a sexual sin was committed before TD had died. You have to hurry and get married because your audience of people will see an affair either emotional or sexual as a huge issue tied into the LDS Religion. This would be seen as a deal breaker to your followers since it would be seen as weak or hypocritical since you are the Prophet and mouth piece of the Lord. MOO

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

There was no custody issue that would have "caused" Lori to hide JJ in September. You cannot have a custody battle with a corpse.

You can, however, have a custody battle with CPS/DFS/whatever the agency is in whichever state the children are located... I think nearly everyone here acknowledges her very real mental health issues and the fact that LE has stated that the children are in extreme danger, combined with the fact that they had been reported missing months ago, and Lori refuses to cooperate. At this point there will most certainly be a custody/court battle, if CPS is doing their job at all. She is unfit. Whether JJs grandparents are even trying to get custody is irrelevant; CPS can get custody in one day with one emergency hearing, and can place them wherever they want. Honestly, Lori is right in this regard, she knows the kids will be taken (they should be in this case). As for the timing, she left Arizona in late August/early September because she was asked to move out by her landlord, and she wanted to be close to her AP Chad, IMO. That set off even more red flags with JJs grandparents (besides the sketchy murder of CV and the previous information from the divorce documents), because she limited/stopped the phone calls and facetime. They knew how unstable she was and reported her, which was completely justified. She did the things she was required to in order to look sane, like enroll JJ in school. I think that is when she and Chad (and probably Melani and Alex) started planning Tammy's and BBs ( thankfully unsuccessful in his case) murders, so they hid the kids in preparation for having to run/hide from that ( instead of disenrolling JJ in October, because that would look suspicious ). She tried to live in plain sight, like nothing was amiss, but then authorities from AZ tracked her down and notified Idaho. The neighbor said it was the week before the "raid" that they questioned him ( I had initially thought she may had been tipped off by someone inside the PD, but then the interview with the neighbors came out which explained it). So she got spooked and took off also, probably not to the same place the children are. I dont know what they think the end game is, they can't hide forever and once the children are located (because I am praying that they are alive and being hidden by like minded cult members) the procedure to remove them from her custody will begin whether she comes forward or not. And then she can play the martyr again and claim religious persecution, constitutional right violated blah blah blah, all the while ignoring the fact that she is a horrible human being and an even worse mother. Moo.

 

[BigAl16]

Why would the person being excommunicated not keep it a secret then, to not allienate their mainstream LDS suporters?

I would say people who are excommunicated fall into three categories in this regard. I'm sure the vast majority fit in the first two categories. Those I personally know who have been excommunicated fit in category 1 or 2 and are small in number in spite of having lived well over 50 years in what I heard someone describe as the "Jello Belt" (aka Mormon country) and having lots of friends, acquaintances, and family who are true believing Mormons. I'm sure this isn't because I don't know plenty, but because word just doesn't spread that much in these cases. I could name 5 or 10 off the top of my head that fit category 3, but I'm sure this is the least frequent category. You'll see why.

1) Ashamed, do all that they can to keep it quiet and only tell those they feel they have to. They do what they need to do to return to the fold and fake it as well as they can. (There are signs that the initiated in their ward can see and they might suspect this happened and possibly some will gossip about it.)

2) No longer believe or willing to go through the motions of pretending they do, so they don't hide it, but they probably don't advertise it for various reasons, either to keep it from family or at least not rub it in. While I personally haven't been excommunicated, I did do the equivalent to myself, and I haven't kept it a secret, but I also haven't gone out of my way to tell my father or family members who remain believers because I dont' see a point in doing so. They aren't going to change their minds about anything, they all have a good handle on where I stand, so this is a non-issue. I suspect many who get excommunicated, some who were going through the motions, but reached the point of no longer being willing to do so, fit in this category.

3) These are people who have been very public in their disagreement or conflict with the church and hoped by pushing they would cause change. These include a lady who thought women should be able to hold the priesthood, a man who shined a light on church policies that protect and cover up for pedophiles within church clergy, and multiple people who had uncovered things that showed the church in a bad light. In all of these the key is that they understood the possibility that they might be excommunicated and when it happened they felt that it was important that the public knew it had happened and why.

A bunch of MOO

 

[tresir2012]

I don't remember reading about Tammy's belongings being cleared out quickly before. It's a touchy subject for me, as I had a similar situation in my family recently. I can't imagine his children not feeling hurt by it. Chad did not return to live in the family home after the funeral anyway. The rest is maybe not so out of the ordinary, apart from Chad's absence.

So he went to the funeral and did not go back to live in the house. Where did he go then? To live with Lori straightaway? If he did not go back to the house, how was he seeing Tammy around every corner? Unless that was just for a couple of days. This is bizarre behaviour in my opinion. Leaving the kids to grieve alone? Then being married within two weeks.

 

[Onsdag]

I don't remember reading about Tammy's belongings being cleared out quickly before. It's a touchy subject for me, as I had a similar situation in my family recently. I can't imagine his children not feeling hurt by it. Chad did not return to live in the family home after the funeral anyway. The rest is maybe not so out of the ordinary, apart from Chad's absence.

My apologies, I misspoke. There is no verified source that Tammy's belongings were removed from the home. Everything else I mentioned has been shared by verified insiders though.

 

[BigAl16]

So there's no danger of her being declared an unfit mother for claiming that she was a god and similar crazy stuff?

I wouldn't say that there is no danger of that. Ultimately that's the CPS situation though. I suppose Kay could have lost her temper, said "I've got these documents where Charles said you made these claims" and either pointed to things she'd heard Lori say or that she'll claim she heard her say along the same lines and tell her that either she give custody back to Kay and Larry or she'd go to CPS with it. So it can't be totally ruled out. But then what is the end game for her here? She hides away, which if anything strengthens the claims against her since there is no way to claim they weren't hiding the kids. She can't prove that she didn't say the things about being a God, but odds are there is no real proof she did say it and whatever exists isn't going to go away. Maybe because running to Hawaii worked in her battle with Joe she thinks it will here, but if so I think she made a big mistake now that LE is involved and by continuing to do so it is doubling down on a bad approach. My perception of Lori is that she'd see that was ultimately going to fail.

 

[jjenny]

This DM article has a lot of info in it but it mentions the divorce proceedings by Charles asking for sole custody of JJ and that Lori was a danger because of her visions that she was a translated being etc and wanted Charles dead. At the time of Charles death I believe the divorce had been stopped but I am not completely sure. So there certainly was a custody issue in the divorce proceedings which CV pulled, maybe due to worry about what Lori was capable of. Any custody issue stopped with his death I guess. I don't know if joint custody had been agreed as I remember seeing something about CV having JJ 3 days a week, so it is not strictly correct to state there was no custody issue. At one time there was a custody issue.

ETA forgot the link.

Estranged husband of Idaho mom whose two kids are missing 'suspected she or brother would kill him' | Daily Mail Online

Police said no ACTIVE custody battle when children went missing. Which is true. Chalres was dead, so whatever custody battle he would participated in, was over.

 

[jjenny]

I wouldn't say that there is no danger of that. Ultimately that's the CPS situation though. I suppose Kay could have lost her temper, said "I've got these documents where Charles said you made these claims" and either pointed to things she'd heard Lori say or that she'll claim she heard her say along the same lines and tell her that either she give custody back to Kay and Larry or she'd go to CPS with it. So it can't be totally ruled out. But then what is the end game for her here? She hides away, which if anything strengthens the claims against her since there is no way to claim they weren't hiding the kids. She can't prove that she didn't say the things about being a God, but odds are there is no real proof she did say it and whatever exists isn't going to go away. Maybe because running to Hawaii worked in her battle with Joe she thinks it will here, but if so I think she made a big mistake now that LE is involved and by continuing to do so it is doubling down on a bad approach. My perception of Lori is that she'd see that was ultimately going to fail.

Kay doesn't even have it. She says Charles taped it (conversations with Lori) but it got deleted. I am assuming it was on his cell phone. And then when he was killed whatever he had on his cell phone was deleted (I am guessing here, so don't ask for a link).

 

[tresir2012]

Police said no ACTIVE custody battle when children went missing. Which is true. Chalres was dead, so whatever custody battle he would participated in, was over.

There was at one time though. So then there was an INACTIVE custody battle re JJ but an active one for BB/MB in which a vehicle of CV/LV was implicated in attempted murder. That is the involvement. I never said there is an ACTIVE custody issue for Lori's kids.
If CPS want to take the kids there won't be a custody battle, they will just take them, if they can find them and Lori knows that so she has them hidden.

 

[jjenny]

This is a very good point. Her upbringing may have taught her to distrust government authority, but in the police videos and police reports, she knows exactly how to behave to persuade authorities to think she is blameless. So why not do the same in Rexburg?

Exactly. Clearly she managed convince the cop that took her statement about Charles taking her wallet that Charles was the one with the problem, not her. She also managed to convince mental health professionals she was totally fine (Charles asked for mental hold, she went in herself and was let go after a few hours). Obviously she isn't running around telling people she is a translated being on a mission. There was no custody battle, when children went missing, so it would make no sense whatsoever to hide them for that reason. If grandparents filed for custody at some future point, she certainly had a bunch of experience with a custody battle. So I absolutely don't believe she hid the children because she feared any custody issues.

 

[jjenny]

There was at one time though. So then there was an INACTIVE custody balance re JJ but an active one for BB/MB in which a vehicle of CV/LV was implicated in attempted murder. That is the involvement.

MB's children aren't missing. So obviously police weren't talking about them when they said NO ACTIVE CUSTODY battle for the missing children.

 

[jjenny]

Ok I always thought Lori was like a mum to M after Lori's sister died 22 years ago when M was only about 7 years old. MOO.

Well she might have been a sort of a mother figure even if she wasn't raising MB, if MB lost her own mother. Anyhow, I don't think it did MB any good, considering she went from happily married (according to MB's husband) to divorced, remarried, not having custody of her kids, after she started spending more time with Lori.

 

[tresir2012]

So regarding CV's car keys and phone, KW said CV would always put his keys and phone down when entering the house. Assuming he did that on 11 July and then Lori picked up his phone and keys and proceeded to delete items from his phone, that is probably how the argument began with him wanting his items back. Then Tylee came out with the bat etc. What a set up.

 

[tresir2012]

MB's children aren't missing. So obviously police weren't talking about them when they said NO ACTIVE CUSTODY battle for the missing children.

I didnt say they were missing. Lori is implicated by her vehicle being involved in the attempted murder in BB/MB custody battle. That's why Tylee and JJ are in danger.

 

[jjenny]

The vehicle was implicated. But police haven't even managed to solve that case. And Lori was likely not even in AZ on that day. And anyhow, children likely already went missing by that time.