Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

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FindingJoLee said:
They know what car was used. And Brandon knows who was in the vehicle (although he has declined to share that with the media.) So, why isn't that case moving forward?? What is going on in some of these other situations that is holding back an arrest? Is the suspect dead? Missing??



Lori/Alex/etc. dad. He was using this language in flyers he distributed for his estate planning business --> "Barry L. Cox, Esq., Legal Document Writer." It was Nov 2018 that the Arizona bar issued the cease and desist.
Click to expand...

More recently than I remembered!
 
I keep going back to the Rexburg Police press release and something about it keeps puzzling me. Namely the timing of all the events, and particularly point #3. As I understand the press release, based on all the careful wording, here is the timeline of events that they (LE) are portraying:

  1. Oct. 19, 2019. Tammy Daybell passes away. At the time her death is "believed to be natural."
  2. Oct. 22, 2019. Tammy's body is interred in the Springville cemetery.
  3. Sometime between Oct. 22 and Nov. 26, 2019. Fremont County Sheriff’s Office (FCSO) opens up an investigation into the death of Tammy Daybell. During this time FCSO "determined Daybell's death may be suspicious." We know they open the death investigation after Oct. 22 because immediately after establishing this date in point #2 they say "Subsequent investigation by the FCSO determined Daybell's death may be suspicious." "Subsequent" means following or after a given point in time, which in this instance is the Oct. 22 date just listed. We also know that they opened Tammy's death investigation before Nov. 26 because they say "During the course of the death investigation by the FCSO, investigators were made aware that two Rexburg children, ages 7 and 17, were missing." Nov. 26, point #4 below, is the date when a welfare check was conducted for JJ, and subsequently they learned that he and Tylee were missing. So what they are saying is that in the process of investigating Tammy's "suspicious" death they then learned about the missing children. This is important to note because according to their own summary of events the missing children investigation didn't lead them into investigating Tammy's death more closely, but rather that Tammy's death investigation had already started before they learned of the missing children. This then begs the question: What caused them to first look into Tammy's death as being suspicious? Nothing I can think of would fully make sense (though some come close). For example (all MOO):
    • Was it the speedy funeral/burial? Probably not. I could see it maybe bothering people, but in and of itself wouldn't initiate an investigation by police.
    • Was Chad acting weird, strange, abnormal, or saying things that seemed off during this time? Probably not. Even if he was (and some people close to the family suggest this may have been) it wouldn't necessarily warrant an investigation. People grieve in different ways and who could say if Chad wasn't exactly "normal" that it therefore must mean he did something? Not likely.
    • Did someone in the family (e.g. parents, children, siblings) suspect something and ask LE to look into it? Possibly? Though from all accounts Chad was seen as a loving and grieving spouse who wouldn't raise suspicions, and Tammy's death was viewed/accepted as 'natural,' even if entirely unexpected.
    • Was it the missing children? No. As outlined above this investigation proceeded the missing children one.
    • Was it Chad's hasty marriage to Lori? No. As outlined below the police didn't know of Chad's marriage until they started looking into the missing children, which again happened after this one had already started.
    • Was it Chad's connection and close ties with Lori and Alex? Not likely. Again, it doesn't appear that LE was aware of any connection between the two parties until after they began looking into Tammy's death.
    • Did Arizona LE clue them in and ask them to look into it based on their own separate investigations? Not likely. Again, it appears Idaho LE was completely unaware of any connection between the two parties until after they had already started their investigation, as outlined below.
    • Was a life insurance agency investigating her death for purposes of payout and they noticed/flagged some things and asked LE to look into it? Possibly? I don't know the ins and outs of life insurance, but it seems reasonable that they would perform their own investigation, and if they noticed something strange (it's been mentioned Chad took out a life insurance policy on Tammy just 9 months prior?) then they might ask LE to look into it further. This seems like the most reasonable scenario thus far.
    • Did the medical exam/autopsy reveal some abnormalities that needed further looking into by LE? Probably not, but maybe? From what we know nothing was suspected and her death was initially determined to be from "natural causes." However, even though the medical examiner supposedly only spent four hours maybe they had collected some samples and sent them off to a lab for further processing? In which case it could have taken a few weeks for initial lab results to come back which, if suspicious/incriminating, may have then been turned over to LE to investigate further. This also seems reasonable, if only a conjecture, to me. Though if that were the case then why would police need to exhume Tammy for another autopsy? So I'll chock this as not likely, albeit possible.
    • Did Chad confess to a religious leader who then told LE? Not likely. Absolutely nothing would point to this. Chad continued to hold an important calling in his ward, and everyone around him, including his bishop, seemed genuinely surprised by all the subsequent events.
  4. Sometime on/before Nov. 26, 2019. "Extended family" (most likely the Woodcocks, JJ's biological grandparents) "had not been able to speak with Joshua since September and were concerned" and therefore contacted LE to conduct a welfare check on JJ.
  5. Nov. 26, 2019. LE conducts a welfare check for JJ. "Investigators from Rexburg police spoke with Lori Vallow and her new husband, Chad Daybell, who indicated Joshua was staying with a family friend in Arizona." Note, it was likely at this time when LE first discovered that Chad and Lori were married. Note also that these were "investigators from Rexburg police" department, and not the FCSO who were doing their own separate investigation into Tammy's death, so FCSO might not have known of their relationship at this time. At what point did they start working together and sharing information with each other? Probably around this time or shortly thereafter, as we'll see.
  6. Nov. 26, 2019, later that day. Rexburg police leave Chad and Lori's place to continue their investigation. They likely reach out to the local Arizona LE asking them to make contact with the "family friend" whom JJ was supposedly staying with in order to complete the welfare check. This results in a big negative. Rexburg police now have probable cause to get a search warrant to locate JJ at Lori et. al's residence. During this time Chad and Lori (and probably everyone else in their little group) are quickly packing up and getting out of Dodge, as evidenced by the next entry.
  7. Nov. 27, 2019. "Rexburg police executed search warrants at locations in Rexburg associated with Lori Vallow, in an attempt to locate Joshua." Note that multiple locations are searched (we know of three town homes "associated with Lori" and her group), but it seems nobody was around to question and there appears to be strong evidence that at the very least Lori and Chad (and probably the rest of their group) "had abruptly vacated their residence and left Rexburg" entirely. Coming up empty handed Rexburg Police then reach out to the FBI asking for help in finding JJ. It's likely that the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office is also contacted and brought into the missing children case at this time, as Chad's former residence is located in their jurisdiction and may have been visited as well. I would assume this is when the two separate cases (Tammy's death investigation and the missing children investigation) merge and all three LE entities begin "investigating the possible connection between the death of a Fremont County woman and two missing Rexburg children."

So what is the significance of point #3? It seems apparent that for whatever reason FCSO decided to take a closer look into the death of Tammy before they discovered that Chad was remarried, before they learned of his relationship with Lori et al., and before the missing children case. What tipped them off? What information did they have available during this time which might cause Tammy's death to look "suspicious" to them? I can't help but think it would have had something to do with Chad himself, and not Lori or Alex because they hadn't entered the picture yet (at least according to LE's knowledge, per their statement). It's enough to make one wonder.

ETA link to police press release:
Rexburg Police Department
 
Last edited:
cody22 said:
Thank you for sharing this info..... Anyone else think that Chad and Lori have good fake identities and are soaking up the sun in Southern California, Florida, or Coastal Texas ?.....moo
Click to expand...

Not necessarily on the beach. But basically, yes, I think they're hiding in plain sight somewhere, probably with the kids. Very ordinary looking family.
 
Onsdag said:
I keep going back to the Rexburg Police press release and something about it keeps puzzling me. Namely the timing of all the events, and particularly point #3. As I understand the press release, based on all the careful wording, here is the timeline of events that they (LE) are portraying:

  1. Oct. 19, 2019. Tammy Daybell passes away. At the time her death is "believed to be natural."
  2. Oct. 22, 2019. Tammy's body is interred in the Springville cemetery.
  3. Sometime between Oct. 22 and Nov. 26, 2019. Fremont County Sheriff’s Office (FCSO) opens up an investigation into the death of Tammy Daybell. During this time FCSO "determined Daybell's death may be suspicious." We know they open the death investigation after Oct. 22 because immediately after establishing this date in point #2 they say "Subsequent investigation by the FCSO determined Daybell's death may be suspicious." "Subsequent" means following or after a given point in time, which in this instance is the Oct. 22 date just listed. We also know that they opened Tammy's death investigation before Nov. 26 because they say "During the course of the death investigation by the FCSO, investigators were made aware that two Rexburg children, ages 7 and 17, were missing." Nov. 26, point #4 below, is the date when a welfare check was conducted for JJ, and subsequently they learned that he and Tylee were missing. So what they are saying is that in the process of investigating Tammy's "suspicious" death they then learned about the missing children. This is important to note because according to their own summary of events the missing children investigation didn't lead them into investigating Tammy's death more closely, but rather that Tammy's death investigation had already started before they learned of the missing children. This then begs the question: What caused them to first look into Tammy's death as being suspicious? Nothing I can think of would fully make sense (though some come close). For example (all MOO):
    • Was it the speedy funeral/burial? Probably not. I could see it maybe bothering people, but in and of itself wouldn't initiate an investigation by police.
    • Was Chad acting weird, strange, abnormal, or saying things that seemed off during this time? Probably not. Even if he was (and some people close to the family suggest this may have been) it wouldn't necessarily warrant an investigation. People grieve in different ways and who could say if Chad wasn't exactly "normal" that it therefore must mean he did something? Not likely.
    • Did someone in the family (e.g. parents, children, siblings) suspect something and ask LE to look into it? Possibly? Though from all accounts Chad was seen as a loving and grieving spouse who wouldn't raise suspicions, and Tammy's death was viewed/accepted as 'natural,' even if entirely unexpected.
    • Was it the missing children? No. As outlined above this investigation proceeded the missing children one.
    • Was it Chad's hasty marriage to Lori? No. As outlined below the police didn't know of Chad's marriage until they started looking into the missing children, which again happened after this one had already started.
    • Was it Chad's connection and close ties with Lori and Alex? Not likely. Again, it doesn't appear that LE was aware of any connection between the two parties until after they began looking into Tammy's death.
    • Did Arizona LE clue them in and ask them to look into it based on their own separate investigations? Not likely. Again, it appears Idaho LE was completely unaware of any connection between the two parties until after they had already started their investigation, as outlined below.
    • Was a life insurance agency investigating her death for purposes of payout and they noticed/flagged some things and asked LE to look into it? Possibly? I don't know the ins and outs of life insurance, but it seems reasonable that they would perform their own investigation, and if they noticed something strange (it's been mentioned Chad took out a life insurance policy on Tammy just 9 months prior?) then they might ask LE to look into it further. This seems like the most reasonable scenario thus far.
    • Did the medical exam/autopsy reveal some abnormalities that needed further looking into by LE? Probably not, but maybe? From what we know nothing was suspected and her death was initially determined to be from "natural causes." However, even though the medical examiner supposedly only spent four hours maybe they had collected some samples and sent them off to a lab for further processing? In which case it could have taken a few weeks for initial lab results to come back which, if suspicious/incriminating, may have then been turned over to LE to investigate further. This also seems reasonable, if only a conjecture, to me. Though if that were the case then why would police need to exhume Tammy for another autopsy? So I'll chock this as not likely, albeit possible.
    • Did Chad confess to a religious leader who then told LE? Not likely. Absolutely nothing would point to this. Chad continued to hold an important calling in his ward, and everyone around him, including his bishop, seemed genuinely surprised by all the subsequent events.
  4. Sometime on/before Nov. 26, 2019. "Extended family" (most likely the Woodcocks, JJ's biological grandparents) "had not been able to speak with Joshua since September and were concerned" and therefore contacted LE to conduct a welfare check on JJ.
  5. Nov. 26, 2019. LE conducts a welfare check for JJ. "Investigators from Rexburg police spoke with Lori Vallow and her new husband, Chad Daybell, who indicated Joshua was staying with a family friend in Arizona." Note, it was likely at this time when LE first discovered that Chad and Lori were married. Note also that these were "investigators from Rexburg police" department, and not the FCSO who were doing their own separate investigation into Tammy's death, so FCSO might not have known of their relationship at this time. At what point did they start working together and sharing information with each other? Probably around this time or shortly thereafter, as we'll see.
  6. Nov. 26, 2019, later that day. Rexburg police leave Chad and Lori's place to continue their investigation. They likely reach out to the local Arizona LE asking them to make contact with the "family friend" whom JJ was supposedly staying with in order to complete the welfare check. This results in a big negative. Rexburg police now have probable cause to get a search warrant to locate JJ at Lori et. al's residence. During this time Chad and Lori (and probably everyone else in their little group) are quickly packing up and getting out of Dodge, as evidenced by the next entry.
  7. Nov. 27, 2019. "Rexburg police executed search warrants at locations in Rexburg associated with Lori Vallow, in an attempt to locate Joshua." Note that multiple locations are searched (we know of three town homes "associated with Lori" and her group), but it seems nobody was around to question and there appears to be strong evidence that at the very least Lori and Chad (and probably the rest of their group) "had abruptly vacated their residence and left Rexburg" entirely. Coming up empty handed Rexburg Police then reach out to the FBI asking for help in finding JJ. It's likely that the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office is also contacted and brought into the missing children case at this time, as Chad's former residence is located in their jurisdiction and may have been visited as well. I would assume this is when the two separate cases (Tammy's death investigation and the missing children investigation) merge and all three LE entities begin "investigating the possible connection between the death of a Fremont County woman and two missing Rexburg children."

So what is the significance of point #3? It seems apparent that for whatever reason FCSO decided to take a closer look into the death of Tammy before they discovered that Chad was remarried, before they learned of his relationship with Lori et al., and before the missing children case. What tipped them off? What information did they have available during this time which might cause Tammy's death to look "suspicious" to them? I can't help but think it would have had something to do with Chad himself, and not Lori or Alex because they hadn't entered the picture yet (at least according to LE's knowledge, per their statement). It's enough to make one wonder.

ETA link to police press release:
Rexburg Police Department
Click to expand...

I don't think that anyone looked into Tammy's death as "suspicious" until Chad married Lori.
 
Could grandparents (KV) try to get custody of JJ? Grandparents do have some rights, at least in some states:

"Grandparents' rights generally apply to the custody of a grandchild and visitation privileges. Grandparents may file suit requesting custody if they believe it is in the child's best interest. Visitation statutes vary widely from state to state. In Texas, a court can authorize grandparent visitation of a grandchild if visitation is in the child's best interest, and one of the following circumstances exists:

  • The parents divorced;
  • The parent abused or neglected the child;
  • The parent has been incarcerated, found incompetent, or died;
  • A court-order terminated the parent-child relationship; or
  • The child has lived with the grandparent for at least six months."
Liberty and Justice for Texas | Office of the Attorney General
 
Onsdag said:
Did the medical exam/autopsy reveal some abnormalities that needed further looking into by LE? Probably not, but maybe? From what we know nothing was suspected and her death was initially determined to be from "natural causes." However, even though the medical examiner supposedly only spent four hours maybe they had collected some samples and sent them off to a lab for further processing? In which case it could have taken a few weeks for initial lab results to come back which, if suspicious/incriminating, may have then been turned over to LE to investigate further. This also seems reasonable, if only a conjecture, to me. Though if that were the case then why would police need to exhume Tammy for another autopsy? So I'll chock this as not likely, albeit possible.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to this explanation, personally, in large part because of the timing. Three to four weeks is about the right time for preliminary results from the superficial screening to come back, and it could well have been inconclusive. For instance, a blood test might have shown an elevated level of some substance that would require them to go back to get a more detailed test, perhaps samples of other organs that might have been damaged.

The insurance is also a possibility. Many policies have a rider that says the person has to survive at least a year, or that excludes pre-existing conditions. The sudden death of a supposedly healthy person would make them check whether there was a condition they hadn't been told about.

Maybe a combination of the two. The insurance investigator could have been the one who noticed the anomaly in the autopsy, such as it was.
 
mickey2942 said:
I don't think that anyone looked into Tammy's death as "suspicious" until Chad married Lori.
Click to expand...
So you think the hasty marriage tipped the police off to take a closer look at it? Would they even know he was remarried unless a close family member learned of their marriage, thought it highly suspect, and called police to look into it? While possible I again go back to LE's own words in the statement that they didn't learn of the marriage until after they did the welfare check. Unless police just made a gross error in their wording of the press release, which I would find highly doubtful - they are always very careful in their wording and the statement of facts, IMHO.
 
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