Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #21

[holsen]

Years ago I was flying on United from NC to Chicago. I was in coach, towards the back of the plane in an aisle seat. The guy sitting next to me in the middle seat was in handcuffs. In the window seat next to him was a plain clothed LE officer. As we were deplaning I learned there was another LE person in plainclothes traveling with them who’d been seated across the aisle and one row back in the aisle seat.

I started chatting w/the guy before I noticed the handcuffs. Making small talk I asked him where he was headed (flights out of Greensboro were limited and most people on that flight were just connecting through O’Hare). I don’t remember what his final destination was just that it wasn’t Chicago. I asked if he was going there for work he said “not exactly” and showed me his wrists. Then the window seat guy leaned forward and kind of waved at me. Cuffed guy introduced me to window guy (“my escort, Jim”) and the three of us chatted a little about mundane stuff — flight time, weather, etc.

I don’t know what the guy did or if his escort was police, FBI, corrections etc. Just that he was being “transferred”. At the time I assumed he was being extradited but I guess it could have been a prison transfer.

So apparently they will transport people by air within the 48 contiguous states if the distance is long enough.

One thing that struck me is other passengers were gawking but none of the flight attendants seemed curious about the guy in cuffs. (It was obvious he was wearing them when he reached for his soft drink, took his packet of peanuts and handed them his trash). I got the impression they’d seen it enough times that any novelty had worn off.

I realize that this is a really minute takeaway from what you've said, but how does one drink a soft drink or eat peanuts with handcuffs on? I would have felt overwhelmingly curious about him/his charges/where he was going. Interesting that the flight attendants weren't.

 

[Colorado303]

I don't know about that, but your suggestion triggered a new question for me. Do we have any indications Chad's kids met Lori before Lori and Chad got married?

Also, I've been racking my brain about that doorbell video of an unidentified woman visiting Lori on Oct 29 and who it could be... I can't name who I'm thinking of (due to TOS) so I'll simply post the MSM photos side-by-side for comparison:

View attachment 234586

Image on right is from 2nd video here: Law enforcement searching Daybell's home - Local News 8

Image on left is from doorbell video:

Hair length and color and the style of her winter coat seem like "matches" to me. I'm unsure on body type/height. This could be very strong evidence that only 10 days after Tammy's death Chad had moved out of his Salem home already and was living with Lori before they went to Kauai and got married. Our VI's here already told us Chad moved out the day after the Rexburg Memorial. But if that is who I think it is walking up to the door then it's important evidence. Chad can't claim he happened to meet Lori while he was in Hawaii grieving Tammy or editing a book. I strongly believe he went to live with Lori the day after Tammy's memorial and his kids very well could have known where he was living. The day before this doorbell video we have CCTV that captured the 2 men (believed to be Chad and Alex) moving bikes.

MOO.

I’m also wondering about the “friend” Lori and Alex brought back with them (allegedly from the airport) the day the babysitter stayed w/JJ. It was on Sept 19, a Thursday. The following Monday was the last time JJ was seen. The babysitter said the woman was introduced to her and did podcasts (according to the Probable Cause doc). I’m sure LE knows who she was, but she could be one of several people who’s name we know or someone else completely.

Whoever she is, this woman apparently flew to Rexburg right before JJ disappeared. If JJ was taken into hiding, this woman may well be the one who took him there.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Why wouldn't he contest it? I mean, sure it's possible there is another bio father of CR. But what does that tell us? Why is it important to this case? I think we need to tread carefully here and imagine that CR and other family members may be reading our words. I think it's pretty insensitive to CR to keep insisting that the man that was married to his mother at the time of his birth and the man who paid child support for him may not be his bio father. Although CR has said he considered Charles to be his father (in a relationship sense not in a biological sense) and that he never had a relationship with his bio father, these accusations by strangers on a crime message board can be really hurtful. MOO.

(I'm going to try to stop discussing it now as I've given my opinion pretty clearly and I don't want to beat a dead horse).

Although there is another reason, I'll skip it and respect what you have to say here...because you're right. It may very well hurt Colby. I have a huge heart for him and hope to all heck he's not reading my words or anyone else's here.

 

[holsen]

Based upon charges alone, i do believe Lori's constitutional rights are being violated with the extremely high bail, flight risk or not. As a result, i would hope some sort of new evidence will come to light during the new bond hearing to justify the high bail.

I agree with you. The $5M bail is not anywhere near the ballpark for these charges. Even people being charged murder don't always have bail set this high. Although, it's deeply satisfying to see her behind bars and not able to buy her way out (at this time).

 

[yawningreyhound]

well i find that encouraging...

That Garden Isle piece mentioned CD has over a $100K in a Hawaiian account. So they've got funds, for sure!!!!

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Just curious, if children are killed before their mother gets remarried, is the new spouse really a step-father?

Uh... no. I'm thinking co-conspirator to murder, though!

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I agree with you. The $5M bail is not anywhere near the ballpark for these charges. Even people being charged murder don't always have bail set this high. Although, it's deeply satisfying to see her behind bars and not able to buy her way out (at this time).

They know the perps have received substantial funds from life insurance, have already absconded once, bought tickets to MEXICO, and it's feared the kids are murdered. While they haven't been charged with the latter, the high bail just ensures incarceration until extradition. The bail will likely be reduced once in Idaho... although I think we all want to see it too high for her to make it.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Based upon charges alone, i do believe Lori's constitutional rights are being violated with the extremely high bail, flight risk or not. As a result, i would hope some sort of new evidence will come to light during the new bond hearing to justify the high bail.

How is this for new evidence, Melani told her new husband about the conspiracy to kill BB and they all sent Alex down to AZ to perform the hit job.

Good enough for you?

 

[caseface]

I disagree, insofar as it's easy for a person on the outside, and easier if said person has no use for religion themselves; to assume that the "devout" person is telling themselves a big load of known horse hooey to evade detection.

Conversely, if the "devout" person has any shreds of true belief in their devoutness, their mindset - their "beliefs", for want of a better word - do, in fact, become very important.

Even, and perhaps especially, because the devout person might, just might, be sincerely deluded; a/k/a "telling themselves stories to get through the night", as it were.

In short, "It doesn't matter what you believe" (i.e., the quality of your intel) "It only matters that you sincerely believe in it."

JMO, IMO, etc.

Moo but Lori and Chad both honestly believe their religious ramblings. Unconsciously, they may be acting from sex, money motives but in their deluded conscious state, they are making religious moves. If you've been in young love before, you know how blind you can be about your actions. That is due to chemicals in the body, etc. These two likely have that coursing through their veins as well as deep mental illness. Untreated persons with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia will tell you a story about what is happening but its usually the CIA or God or the devil that's behind it. They are not conscious of their motivations or necessarily their hallucinations. As a result, we cannot be dismissive of the religious part as it likely contributed to their behavior. And their behavior towards the kids, where they put them, what they did/did not do with them. We must consider these factors. A client diagnosed with schizophrenia told me once in regards to bruises found on his bod that a devil visited him and, i'll leave out the graphic details, had his way with him. I could have dismissed this as false and gibberish, a smoke screen; however, to him this was real. Upon further investigation, his caretaker was found guilty of abuse. They had been abusing him and taking his Social Security checks. All that to say, we must not dismiss their beliefs because that is their language. We must listen to it and decipher it and understanding the make up of their beliefs in their minds can be tremendous clues to finding the children.

 

[caseface]

I believe LVD accused JR of sexual abuse during their custody dispute which may have been why AC assaulted him, so it makes sense to me that LVD would use that again. MOO

I think its obvious Lori has been victim of some sort of trauma throughout her life, most definitely as a child. That's no excuse for her behavior but it is important in understanding Lori and thus, her actions, which can lead us to the children.

 

[SuziQ]

IMO, and from following other cases, judges are given a lot of leeway in bond and bail amounts when it is determined someone is a flight risk.

Lori has not been charged with murder of the kids. But because she won't give up their location, and add the other evidence that shows the kids are in danger or dead. The inference is clear. I don't think the judge is out of line.

That said, I would not be surprised to see the amount greatly reduced. With a lot of restrictions.

 

[SeattleStew]

https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn....=b9ae79821f7fd38ce150cb0fcae53950&oe=5EF572D7

Oh, boy, didn't realize until I just read the subpoena paperwork that any info the landlord has in regard to CD is required as well.

THAT'S SO AWESOME!

 

[CSIDreamer]

I wonder how much he can draw out in cash in order to hide it in this period of time? I'm sure there are restrictions or at least lots of red tape to doing so.

Don't forget that bag of cash the day of the search warrants. I'm guessing (but not really sure) LE would have had to receipt that back to her. There must be a paper trail of how much she had that day. Jmo

 

[indicolite22]

I’m also wondering about the “friend” Lori and Alex brought back with them (allegedly from the airport) the day the babysitter stayed w/JJ. It was on Sept 19, a Thursday. The following Monday was the last time JJ was seen. The babysitter said the woman was introduced to her and did podcasts (according to the Probable Cause doc). I’m sure LE knows who she was, but she could be one of several people who’s name we know or someone else completely.

Whoever she is, this woman apparently flew to Rexburg right before JJ disappeared. If JJ was taken into hiding, this woman may well be the one who took him there.

I thought that a strong candidate for this visitor has been identified, the one Lori lied to police about having JJ, and who is now cooperating.

 

[indicolite22]

I think its obvious Lori has been victim of some sort of trauma throughout her life, most definitely as a child. That's no excuse for her behavior but it is important in understanding Lori and thus, her actions, which can lead us to the children.

BBM. How is this obvious? Any info supporting that?

 

[Trask]

BBM. Well we do know she has a Hawaii drivers license in the name of Lori Ryan. The arrest warrant paperwork only listed her as Lori Vallow and/or Lori Daybell. So is her attorney going to pull out the Ryan ID at the last minute and claim she's not the same Lori? It sounds like a ridiculous argument to make, but this legal team is arguing a $5 Million bail should be reduced to $10,000 which seems like a ridiculous request as well. So I'm not putting anything past them... I hope the prosecutor is prepared to present evidence of all her aliases, including the Lolo Ryan one. MOO.

Calling her by her first name is possibly a defense strategy used by her attorney to humanize her to the judge. It suggests a familiarity, almost a friendship. Like she's just one of the gang rather than a cold hearted killer. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

That may be, but he didn't contest paying it... I think he's the father. But I'm not sure why it even matters if there's another unknown bio father for CR? Or why we are discussing that as a possibility? Other than that would fit with Lori's life pattern of lying and manipulating men to get what she wants. So it doesn't really tell us anything new if that were to be the case. MOO.

i agree, but I believe it feeds our personal desires for retribution. Learning more about Joe Ryan...geez do I feel he got screwed and the legal system failed him. And WL?? I feel he was certainly one under her spell. I believe he was also under her parents' spell as well--lots of legal stuff went down in that divorce, and I do not believe that know-how came from Lori. I just wish he would come out from under his "private and quiet life" and scream out some good fodder for us since he is the only husband around!!! (<---statement obviously meant to be interpreted as "he truly deserves his own privacy here")

 

[Gardener1850]

Although there is another reason, I'll skip it and respect what you have to say here...because you're right. It may very well hurt Colby. I have a huge heart for him and hope to all heck he's not reading my words or anyone else's here.

Thanks. I do think we should assume family members are reading our words. Maybe they won't read them today, in real time, but someday in the future they might (or Colby's kids might read these posts one day). And I'm sorry, I just noticed that you said in your first post here that you know some of the people involved in this case. So perhaps you have some inside info on that and I can understand if you feel the need to set the record straight. I wish you would consider becoming verified. Then you can freely state what you know without having to give a source for your information.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Years ago I was flying on United from NC to Chicago. I was in coach, towards the back of the plane in an aisle seat. The guy sitting next to me in the middle seat was in handcuffs. In the window seat next to him was a plain clothed LE officer. As we were deplaning I learned there was another LE person in plainclothes traveling with them who’d been seated across the aisle and one row back in the aisle seat.

I started chatting w/the guy before I noticed the handcuffs. Making small talk I asked him where he was headed (flights out of Greensboro were limited and most people on that flight were just connecting through O’Hare). I don’t remember what his final destination was just that it wasn’t Chicago. I asked if he was going there for work he said “not exactly” and showed me his wrists. Then the window seat guy leaned forward and kind of waved at me. Cuffed guy introduced me to window guy (“my escort, Jim”) and the three of us chatted a little about mundane stuff — flight time, weather, etc.

I don’t know what the guy did or if his escort was police, FBI, corrections etc. Just that he was being “transferred”. At the time I assumed he was being extradited but I guess it could have been a prison transfer.

So apparently they will transport people by air within the 48 contiguous states if the distance is long enough.

One thing that struck me is other passengers were gawking but none of the flight attendants seemed curious about the guy in cuffs. (It was obvious he was wearing them when he reached for his soft drink, took his packet of peanuts and handed them his trash). I got the impression they’d seen it enough times that any novelty had worn off.

Oh i would be certain that this is all in flight attendant training. And probably how to handle OTHER nervous/outspoken/difficult passengers rather than the person in cuffs. He IS in cuffs, so that controls some behavior!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Years ago I was flying on United from NC to Chicago. I was in coach, towards the back of the plane in an aisle seat. The guy sitting next to me in the middle seat was in handcuffs. In the window seat next to him was a plain clothed LE officer. As we were deplaning I learned there was another LE person in plainclothes traveling with them who’d been seated across the aisle and one row back in the aisle seat.

I started chatting w/the guy before I noticed the handcuffs. Making small talk I asked him where he was headed (flights out of Greensboro were limited and most people on that flight were just connecting through O’Hare). I don’t remember what his final destination was just that it wasn’t Chicago. I asked if he was going there for work he said “not exactly” and showed me his wrists. Then the window seat guy leaned forward and kind of waved at me. Cuffed guy introduced me to window guy (“my escort, Jim”) and the three of us chatted a little about mundane stuff — flight time, weather, etc.

I don’t know what the guy did or if his escort was police, FBI, corrections etc. Just that he was being “transferred”. At the time I assumed he was being extradited but I guess it could have been a prison transfer.

So apparently they will transport people by air within the 48 contiguous states if the distance is long enough.

One thing that struck me is other passengers were gawking but none of the flight attendants seemed curious about the guy in cuffs. (It was obvious he was wearing them when he reached for his soft drink, took his packet of peanuts and handed them his trash). I got the impression they’d seen it enough times that any novelty had worn off.

Oh i would be certain that this is all in flight attendant training. And probably how to handle OTHER nervous/outspoken/difficult passengers rather than the person in cuffs. He IS in cuffs, so that controls some behavior!

I’ve had a lot of catching up to do! I snipped, trimmed and/or bolded the following replies for emphasis and/or brevity. Just some thoughts before I must leave again for the day, or two or three:

What you’re talking about here (in the bold text) came to mind when I heard Lori had referred to JJ as her “niece's drug baby”. I found it so chilling; it showed that she'd re-framed JJ in her mind - he's not her beloved (adopted) son who she (reportedly) doted on since he was a baby - he now belongs to someone else, he is something else, something she's not connected to. It's a sign to me that she was set, or starting to set her mind, on being rid of him. Was his "light" starting to dim?



I could have quoted many more, these posts were a few I saw early yesterday. Honestly I've seen many people seemingly latch onto the idea of Tylee being killed (or her body destroyed) in an acid pool. (Ugh, it turns my stomach typing that.) Still, I can't see her Uncle Alex, though he was a violent man (well documented) and may have killed or attempted to kill, and more than once (both extremely likely, IMO) - I just can’t see how he pushed her in a boiling hot, sulfuric acid pool. That's such a cruel and disgusting way to harm or kill someone you loved since they were little, my gosh. A bat to the back of the head would be less brutal... If he did get the job of killing her from Lori, at this point he must have shared Lori's feelings about why Tylee needed to go (religious beliefs, or criminal motives, or both). I mean, you've got to jump through some huge mental hoops to arrive at the conclusion that your son or niece must go (dehumanizing them is part of it, as described above.). But I don't see Alex taking the additional step of discarding her so violently - I'm not defending him, he's a loathsome, violent, terrible person - MOO is, it's just not likely. Not to mention the risk of her grabbing onto him or fighting him, and him falling in with her! No, if he killed her, I imagine it was strangulation or gun shot. (In fact, I'm reminded of a scene in The Sopranos, in the last season, also in the autumn, where someone drives to a remote location to get rid of someone who was once beloved... that was a sad scene, and it was only TV.) *heavy sigh*
Whether or not he destroyed her remains in an acid pool is another argument for another day, but even that I feel is excessive and unnecessary. And dangerous, too.

While I'm venting about Yellowstone, I want to mention it doesn't really matter if the notorious "ZONE of DEATH" is a real thing or not (it isn't*), what matters is what Alex and Lori thought about it. Could it have been worth it to them to chose that area over miles and miles of other remote spots inside or outside of the park because of some weird theory they fell for?
*ETA @AZlawyer, thank you for putting this to bed (finally?) a few pages back. I sincerely hope we're done with the death zone arguments (right, @DoctorAttorney? )

“... with or without religion good people will behave well and bad people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” - Steven Weinberg, theoretical physicist

I appreciate this really cool song, the awesome video, AND your lightening the mood! Thank you.

@Dontknow? re: "fake creepy LDS sex troll"?
I've seen Lori Vallow described in plenty... let's say... "colorful" adjectives, and have seen her called many a bad name, but this takes the cake. It's just my favorite. Sorry I no longer have the link to your post. I know her behavior is maddening... I hope it eases your frustration to know you gave me a chuckle.

@squareandrabbet, I noticed a post of yours in an earlier thread where you mentioned the book "Educated" by Tara Westover. I looked it up and it is now on my list of must-reads. Thanks!

If it wasn't made clear in my language above, my posts are only my opinion, and MOO.
I have a few more thoughts (about JR's custody battle and his treatment at the hands of AC, about AC's murder - or suicide, about CD's 1-star book reviews...) I hope to share them if and when I have time, even if it means I'll be replying to posts pages (and threads) back. It's a welcome challenge, keeping up with you all here. I continue to hope we will see (or even help get) justice for Tylee, JJ, Tammy Daybell, and Charles Vallow.

I would put absolutely nothing past Alex Cox. Capable of anything. And Yellowstone in general was CD's special back yard. This specific area is where he went with him family when convinced to move to Rexburg, AND Alex and Lori had literally been here DAYS before that trip. They knew nothing. CD must have been the tour guide, in my mind.