Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #21

[KonaHonu]

In Hawaii the main statutory consideration i setting bail is ensuring the accused shows up at trial.
Issues like seriousness, means, and so forth can be argued before the judge.

 

[mrjitty]

Perhaps the most interesting argument at the hearing was regarding the nature of LV's presence in Hawaii

Prosecutor argued from the perspective that LV is essentially a fugitive who skipped state ahead of the hounds, and who has a track record of such behaviour.

Defence counsel made a good argument that LVs presence in state is not unusual - indeed it is where she has spent most of her time in recent years.

I think the problem for the defence is not that the argument could not support an application for lower bail, but rather the Judge simply did not believe it. And when you look at the facts before the Judge, she clearly made the right decision IMO.

LV sent police on a 24 hr wild goose chase, and used the opportunity to go on the run.

To establish Hawaii was in the ordinary course, I think the defence needed to produce evidence that the trip was long planned and timing merely coincidental.

 

[KonaHonu]

I seemed to have missed the lovely discussion about potatoes, as I recall there was a poster or is a poster with potatoes in their name?

They look to be lovely and would fit right in at a luau. Search for funeral potato recipe.

 

[mrjitty]

In Hawaii the main statutory consideration i setting bail is ensuring the accused shows up at trial.

That is the main point of bail everywhere. Though in some cases it may relate to issues of public safety or attempts to pervert justice etc.

Issues like seriousness, means, and so forth can be argued before the judge.

Yes. Including risk of flight.

I think you are underplaying the fact that in an extradition case like this, it is often central to the proceedings that the accused is already a fugitive.

LV denied that was the case, but the Judge simply did not believe her.

 

[Angleterre]

I can't imagine why anyone would EVER answer LE questions verbally. They are NEVER trying to exonerate you. If I were ever questioned for anything but something trivial I would insist on interrogatories (written questions and answers). There is simply no benefit I have ever heard of to answering verbal questions, even with an attorney present.

I'd be curious if any experienced defense attorneys would disagree with that and why.

That’s a broad sweeping statement if ever I heard one . Can you please add to your post that this is in your opinion only and based upon the US legal system because it’s certainly not the case in the UK and I take
exception to the remark and what inference may be drawn from that and frankly I find it offensive

 

[Anonymous91]

I have to agree. Some of the lawyers on here have said she is an obvious flight risk. But consider the facts. Hawaii is one of the most isolated places on earth. When they were NOT under arrest I argued they may flee to Samoa, Micronesia, or the Marshall Islands, none of which extradite to the US. But once she was arrested she could be given an ankle bracelet and tracked. Coast Guard could intercept her if she left the island and if she got near an airport, traffic could be stopped. "Flight risk" has an entirely different meaning here.

Here bail has to do with showing up for trial. That usually involves people with no money but family to protect them.

I will say once again, Hawaii is unique. If you are a mainland lawyer and came here I think you would go through serious culture shock about how things actually work. Defendant routinely get off by exercising their right to trial in the Hawaiian language (expensive), by exercising sovereignty issues (which mush be heard and are recognized by some countries) and so forth. I've seen guys facing a $100 fine for exercising native rights have a 2-3 week trial costing tens of thousands of dollars only to be found guilty and fined $0.

It's crazy here and I think the only reason the judge ruled the way she did was because she knew there was no time for appeal.

Well, now that she is caught I think I am safe to say this.

There is an unusual flight, nicknamed the "Island Hopper" through United Airlines. It lands at the following locations, allowing passengers to get off at each location (Except Kwajalein): Marshalls, Kosrae, Pohnpei, Chuuk, and finally Guam.

As far as I recall, you do not need a passport if you have a US ID (Driver's License). It is very possible to get off at any of these stops in between. If you know what you are doing, you can catch a boat and get to an outer island fast. Effectively vanishing from any modern surveillance.

I will say, I got one heck of an ear ache going up and down so fast. If you ever take that route, make sure to have medicine to counter act ear aches.

Marshall Islands does have a no extradition in place, but that is up to the discretion of the local Government. For the record, there is no where to hide on that island.

It's roughly 30 miles wide, but no longer than a football field at it's widest point. That and it's about at sea level.

The other islands are part of what is called the Federated States of Micronesia. They do have an extradition in place. This is made up of the following islands: Chuuk (Truk), Yap, Pohnpeii, Kosrae, and a whole bunch of small islands connected to these main islands.

Interesting fact. FSM has a Free Compact of Association with the United States. They are unique, since no one else has this, not sure if that has been renewed since that was set to expire recently. They are not US citizens, so they can't vote. However, they can travel to the US and territories without a green card (not required). They can also hold US jobs, apply for a SS card, qualify for government assistance, and so forth.


That being said, if the islanders found out that your kids were presumed dead(By you), and you were expecting them to hide you. They will hide you , 6 feet under that is. MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

Perhaps the most interesting argument at the hearing was regarding the nature of LV's presence in Hawaii

Prosecutor argued from the perspective that LV is essentially a fugitive who skipped state ahead of the hounds, and who has a track record of such behaviour.

Defence counsel made a good argument that LVs presence in state is not unusual - indeed it is where she has spent most of her time in recent years.

I think the problem for the defence is not that the argument could not support an application for lower bail, but rather the Judge simply did not believe it. And when you look at the facts before the Judge, she clearly made the right decision IMO.

LV sent police on a 24 hr wild goose chase, and used the opportunity to go on the run.

To establish Hawaii was in the ordinary course, I think the defence needed to produce evidence that the trip was long planned and timing merely coincidental.

Not posting in disagreement. But Lori has a long history on Kauai. After her move her in 2016 I think all her life events were about coming back. It is a common story that most will not understand if you don't live here. She was planning to come back to Kauai. When she booked her tickets is irrelevant. This was a long(ish) game.

 

[Gardener1850]

Gardener1850 I want to message you about
VI status but I am not allowed to start a conversation with you. Tricia asked that I become UK VI for LE on 1-1/2020 and I replied with email of everything requested of me . I am still waiting. I have contacted MODS to enquire but no reply and I wonder where I go from here some 2 plus months later?

I'm not a moderator here, so I don't know anything, LOL. But I hit report on your post and asked them to update you.

 

[Whaddayano]

Live Stream

can anyone here lip read? 34:30-34:50

 

[Snoods]

What on Earth did she do to her hair?

It looks like they made her take out her weave. I was wondering how long they would let her keep it.

 

[Angleterre]

I'm not a moderator here, so I don't know anything, LOL. But I hit report on your post and asked them to update you.

Ok thank you I appreciate it

 

[Gardener1850]

@WhereIsWaldo
Please can you tell me where I can find those ?

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix
2 hrs ·
MADISON COUNTY, ID SUBPOENAS: The Madison County Prosecutor’s Office just demanded Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell’s Princeville landlord, the Kauai Beach Resort and Kennedy Elementary School (Rexburg, ID) to deliver all records related to Lori, Chad and JJ Vallow.

For all parties, they have until 3/9/20 and have to produce all documents from 8/1/19 to the present.

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[Fly808]

I was in the courtroom today. Was in the area so decided to stop in and listen. At one point she looked behind her to where chad sat last week. It seemed to me she was looking to see if he was there, but that’s just based on my observation.

Hey!! I wondered if we would have anybody in there! That’s awesome! So just to be certain, that was NOT Chad with the dark shirt, bald head and beard sitting next to the reporter?

Again, this is just my opinion~I definitely do not believe this is Chad Daybell in the black shirt. However, when I first saw him in person, he looked like one of Chads brothers that I saw a picture of in the past week. I won’t name which one, because I’m pretty sure there are rules against that here (I’m brand new to this).

 

[mrjitty]

That’s a broad sweeping statement if ever I heard one . Can you please add to your post that this is in your opinion only and based upon the US legal system because it’s certainly not the case in the UK and I take
exception to the remark and what inference may be drawn from that and frankly I find it offensive

As far as the US goes, there are strong disincentives to giving a police interview. David Simon actually wrote some fascinating stuff on the topic in his book Homicide

But of course, for the guilty and innocent there are strong practical reasons why you might talk. For instance, certain kinds of deception (e.g Chris Watts) to lawyer up 100% from the start pretty much tells LE who done it. But I don't need to tell you this as a I am sure you worked that line every day

So let's say Melani has a strong alibi because she wasn't one of the shooters. In this case, disclosing some of that info in a carefully controlled interview might be preferable to getting arrested and chucked in jail awaiting trial for years

Its surely also possible that she is cooperating? If she was only a minor player they might have turned her over already.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Can you point us to where it was verified? I ask only because I have mostly discounted anything said that is not backed up by a more confident source and as of now the Mexico claim falls in that category. If it has been substantiated somewhere by LE, in an affidavit, or elsewhere I would definitely give it more weight.

In a similar vein, I commented earlier today about how so much of what we know about several individuals is based on divorce documents. When I got divorced my ex made all sorts of provably false claims out of anger. She really lost it and made similar threats to what Lori did - vowed to ruin me financially for example. I took the high road and know her well enough to know that if someone turned up dead it would not have been her. But her threats and accusations were eerily similar to those of Melani and Lori. She never made any of those under oath though because she wouldn't.

I have to compare Melani issuing a letter through her attorney with Brandon making a sworn statement to a court and decide which to give more credit to. Does that mean Melani is lying? Not necessarily. But if Brandon watched *advertiser censored* and had a few gay affairs is that really equivalent to trying to kill someone? That may be a matter of opinion for some but to me it's pretty clear. That's also why Arizona prohibits testimony regarding marital behavior in divorce cases. It's entirely irrelevant in a no-fault state and I'm sure judges are far too familiar with this pattern.

If they did indeed buy tickets to Mexico that would seriously sway my opinion. But I need better evidence than I am currently aware of.

Apparently, my previous comment was deleted or reported. By whom, I wonder?

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Apparently, my previous comment was deleted or reported. By whom, I wonder?

@KonaHonu

I have a question, why are you trying so hard to come up with a legal or/any other defense for this person, Lori Cox Ryan Vallow Daybell, currently held in a Hawaii jail, for charges including abandonment/desertion of minor children, Tylee Ryan and Joshua Vallow, in Rexburg, Idaho, pending extradition to Idaho?

 

[Snoods]

Regarding her hair, can any women please comment if she’s wearing extensions? To me it looks like it, especially at the front. I also noticed it on the dateline episode.

Oh yes, she 100% has (oopsy, had) extensions.



She looks like a different person, doesn’t she? Not quite so cocky, either. Lori taken down a few notches is a good look for her, IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

One thing I learned in my time in the law is that top counsel and top judges are very quick to cut through the

I suspect the Judge approached the case in the following way

1. Idaho Court views LV as a fugitive who skipped the state the minute police turned up
2. No evidence produced before Hawaii court to dispel that presumption (prior travel bookings etc)
3 No evidence produced before Hawaii court of real prospect of resisting extradition
4. No evidence of a defence to substantive charges

Given the defence's utter failure to offer any reasonable account for the bizarre state of affairs it's hardly surprising the Judge prefers Idaho's view on things. This is a crim on the run because she probably did it and has no reasonable explanations.

I tend to wonder if the same thing is going to happen when she gets back to Idaho and comes to a bail hearing with no account for the kids safety.

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

Because Gray Hughes has a youtube where he discusses being contacted by a family member who says L and CD knew each other going back to 2016. @Nosurprise may be interested in the transcript around 34:44 or so.

IIRC it was also mentioned by a few sources on the Dateline episode... Lori became obsessed with the doomsday Prepping stuff several yrs back and began attending conferences, Chad was a speaker at many of these (was treated 'god like' by the followers), this is where they supposedly met and became close "spending hrs talking about past lives and NDE's etc" She got into the PAPP podcasts through these conferences, and apparently was so obsessed by it all that Charles began to worry about her mental health and tried to have her committed! Also mentioned that Lori and Teri knew each other both from the conferences and podcast.... IIRC Lori actually stayed with them at one point when they were recording a dual interview on PAPP (podcasts have since been removed). And we know 2 of his sons were also living at the family house.

In late Jan./early feb. 2019 when LV fled with Tylee to Hawaii Her close girlfriend said that Lori had told her she was divorcing Charles, he had a demon in him and was already dead...etc and began ranting about the end times/ the 144,000 and bringing up both Chad and Zulema (sp) along with a few other 'new names'. The friend thought she was just going through a rough patch.... until Charles actually did die. So she def did know Chad and at least a few of his family members in 2018, that much at least is clearly documented. I think it started in 2016/17 and do remember seeing that in one of the articles but cannot recall which one.

Dateline episode: Where are the Kids aired feb 15th IIRC.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

@WhereIsWaldo
Please can you tell me where I can find those ?

Check Idaho media sources including EIN, KTVB, etc...let me find a link.