Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #21

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I have to agree with the poster who is also a local, that this is an extraordinarily high amount of bail that is never seen in Hawaii. I’ve been here 40+ years, murderers, child rapists, one notorious murder for hire case where two people were killed, never seen a bail like this. She’s charged with class B Felonies, not class A. And let’s remember that she is charged at this point and therefore alleged. Many on here may believe that she has committed murder or other heinous crimes but none of that has been proven, certainly not in a court of law.

Also, To my knowledge she has never been convicted previously of any felonies. Flight risk, yes, but it’s not like she can drive somewhere. The only option to get off that Island undetected would be by boat or private jet and even the private jet is questionable with the high profile nature of this case. IMO Not that easy to charter a private boat either, and it would have to be one that is quite seaworthy as Hawaii is the furthest from a mass body of land of any island or island group on the planet (That last portion is not my opinion, it is fact).


“Hawaii

The Hawaiian island chain, or archipelago, is the most geographically isolated group of islands on Earth. Located more than 2,000 miles from the nearest continental land mass, the chain of volcanic islands is home to a wide range of flora and fauna that exist only in Hawaii.Dec 1, 2014”

Some general thoughts on bail - but subject to the rider that I am unfamiliar with US provisions.

In other jurisdictions I am familiar with, the seriousness of the charges is only one factor in considering bail as the overriding concern is ensuring that the accused actually turns up to Court, and does not interfere with the investigation/destroy evidence etc

So for example in NZ, I can easily see how skipping town to avoid law enforcement would lead to the accused not being bailed at all. That would not be controversial. In this context I don't really see how LVs constitutional rights are impacted, given her track record.

Note also, flight risk can mean going into hiding etc. Given her history, and the seriousness of the evidence against her, I think it is quite reasonable for the Court to suspect she might abscond if bailed at a more usual amount.
 
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So after the judge stood firm on the 5 million (again), I started wondering again what the judge knows that we don’t. It has to be more than a flight risk. They let LV roam free for over 5 months. I wonder if autopsy results have come in and that information just hasn’t been released.
LV looked like hell today. I kept thinking just tell them where your children are and a big part of this would be over...or not...maybe this story is just starting. Crazy.

Bail can't be denied on the basis of secret evidence.

The case for effectively denying bail is plain on the face of the prosecution pleadings. LV skipped town overnight to evade law enforcement.

That provides strong evidence, that for whatever reason, she did not want to face the emerging effort to find the kids.

Make of that what you will, but a Court will not be mugged off by her (now) cooperative act

The Judge will be aware that her very involvement in considering bail is because LV skipped Idaho one step ahead of the law, and in advance of very serious charges being laid.
 
Sorry if this has already been said, but, WOW! That's a great bit of info into HER psychology! The last image with the texts is the perfect BURN, IMO. Only after she fails to have him killed does she decide "divorce is better".... (MOO)

I think she threw everything but the kitchen sink at this poor guy in that doc! We are supposed to believe he's mafia/child molester/gay/ dirty *advertiser censored* addict/ Drug user/murderer etc/etc/etc/. But only decides to confront him about his inappropriate *advertiser censored* magazines, and then takes off leaving behind her minor children. Give me a break!

The entire statement is riddled with vindictive rage, and defeats it's entire purpose... No rational judge is going to say, "Yes, lets hand the kids over to this perfectly sane, god fearing lady"..... actually it has confirmed my bias that these people are Criminally Insane and should not be walking the streets! Again, MOO.
What stands out, if it is true, is her attorney (criminal defense) is claiming that Melani talked with the FBI for hours on three separate days. That is quite a bit different than speaking to Idaho or Arizona authorities. And it seems to me to spell trouble for at least one person. The FBI almost always know the answers to the questions they ask so the chances she will be jammed up on a lie (it does not even need to be material to what the FBI is investigating) are more likely than not. That the FBI is poking around her makes me think she is a Target of an investigation that at a minimum is a criminal conspiracy or criminal solicitation that crossed state lines or used a means of interstate communications (even if such communications were entirely within one state). Whether she gets charged or not is another matter.

We can't know for certain since the FBI doesn't confirm, deny, or comment on on-going investigations. However, if it is true, then I think it is significant.
 
With regards to the information you provide, it seems to be an extraordinary case. MOO
The source I cited has other examples. I also mentioned that most arrests in my county produce an email to everyone who signed up that also includes the charges and bail amount. Bail over $100,000 almost always means there are dozens of felony charges. Even murder rarely hits that threshold.

Just read in the link I posted earlier that Hawaii law requires judges to consider "ability to pay" in setting bail. Given there was no testimony on this from either side it seems that this law is largely ignored as the cited document states.

I'm certainly not surprised about today's events or disappointed. But if you actually do a survey of Hawaii bails by offense you would have a hard time believing $5m is normal for what she is accused of.
 
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Wow, I don't know if I can ever stay caught up on this.
Chad. Where was Chad today?
*perhaps during their visit yesterday, they agreed that he not show at her hearing today and avoid media attention.
*maybe he was back at the hotel packing..
*He could have had hopped on the plane back to Idaho already to try and cover up any loose ends... cover a technology trail...I'm guessing he's being closely watched.

What were CD and LD talking about during their visit? Chad's escape plan? Money? Go find the kids? My brain is exploding.

Can you wonderful legal experts please provide insight on how long LD can be held once in Rexburg, and any theories on more charges they will add? When would that happen? What does it look like once she returns to Idaho? If she is also charged for CV's death, will she have to also travel to Arizona? sorry, I'm sure this has been addressed before, but my eyes are falling out.

as far as Justin Lum's very recent post on Facebook - I cannot figure out how to link it - that CD moved out - under the comments it mentions a family event on Sunday in Idaho that he may be going to.

moo
 
What stands out, if it is true, is her attorney (criminal defense) is claiming that Melani talked with the FBI for hours on three separate days. That is quite a bit different than speaking to Idaho or Arizona authorities. And it seems to me to spell trouble for at least one person. The FBI almost always know the answers to the questions they ask so the chances she will be jammed up on a lie (it does not even need to be material to what the FBI is investigating) are more likely than not. That the FBI is poking around her makes me think she is a Target of an investigation that at a minimum is a criminal conspiracy or criminal solicitation that crossed state lines or used a means of interstate communications (even if such communications were entirely within one state). Whether she gets charged or not is another matter.

We can't know for certain since the FBI doesn't confirm, deny, or comment on on-going investigations. However, if it is true, then I think it is significant.

I can't imagine why anyone would EVER answer LE questions verbally. They are NEVER trying to exonerate you. If I were ever questioned for anything but something trivial I would insist on interrogatories (written questions and answers). There is simply no benefit I have ever heard of to answering verbal questions, even with an attorney present.

I'd be curious if any experienced defense attorneys would disagree with that and why.
 
Hawaii only allows "no bail" for death penalty, life in prison and similarly serious cases (HRS 832-14, 15, 16) and the judge has great discretion. The attorneys debated in the hearing whether the Idaho felonies meet the standard of serious crimes in Hawaii. They agreed they translate roughly as class B felonies based on the potential prison time (10 years max in Hawaii). B felonies in Hawaii typically get a bail of about $10,000. This was all argued in the hearing.

Here is some information about bail in Hawaii:
https://acluhawaii.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/aclu-of-hawaii-bail-report.pdf

"Like the U.S. Constitution, the Hawai‘i Constitution prohibits “excessive bail” but does not guarantee an absolute right to bail in all cases. In this context, the Supreme Court of Hawai‘i has stated that “bail is not excessive merely because [an] arrestee is unable to pay it, ‘but he is entitled to an opportunity to make it in a reasonable amount.’” In Sakamoto v. Won Bae Chang, the Hawai‘i Supreme Court held that where the state failed to show a likelihood of conviction of murder in the first degree, where the trial court found the arrestee to be “not [a] man of means,” and where there was no evidence presented that indicated that the arrestee would not be present for future proceedings, a bail set at $300,000 violated the state constitutional provision prohibiting excessive bail. The Supreme Court ultimately reduced the bail to $100,000. The Supreme Court of Hawai‘i has also interpreted Article I Section 12 as protecting against unreasonable or arbitrary denial of bail. Judges cannot infer from the arrestee’s criminal indictment alone a need for bail in an unusually high amount, such as in Sakamoto, where bail was set at $300,000 because of the arrestee’s murder charge. Such acts are deemed arbitrary."

BBM

In summary, even $300,000 has been deemed by the Hawaii Supreme Court to be excessive even for a murder charge in Hawaii.

This is good info thanks!

The thing i note about Sakamoto v. Won Bae Chang is that the state failed to present any evidence that the accused might not present himself at the hearing. The indictment itself cannot be used for that purpose to justify an unusual amount as you already note.

The Court further explained that “since the function of bail is limited, the fixing of bail for any individual arrestee must be based upon standards relevant to the purpose of assuring the presence of that arrestee.”

In the present case, the state has presented separate evidence of flight risk. It would be interesting to know what has happened in other cases where the accused skipped town.

I think in the present case it is pretty clear that even if Bail was set at $100-300,000 - there is indeed a risk that they'd just pay the 10% then go to ground.
 
It would also be good to know when the airline tickets to HI for the 'marriage' trip and the 'move' trip were booked.
I suspect that is why LE has subpoenaed records back to August 1. They want to know when planning started. Lori(?) rented a 2 bedroom place in Kauai. She had 2 kids including a 17 year old girl. Why not 1 (if she expects to be alone) or 3(with kids). Most VR contracts ask how many adults and kids. They want to know what she was planning.
 
What stands out, if it is true, is her attorney (criminal defense) is claiming that Melani talked with the FBI for hours on three separate days. That is quite a bit different than speaking to Idaho or Arizona authorities. And it seems to me to spell trouble for at least one person. The FBI almost always know the answers to the questions they ask so the chances she will be jammed up on a lie (it does not even need to be material to what the FBI is investigating) are more likely than not. That the FBI is poking around her makes me think she is a Target of an investigation that at a minimum is a criminal conspiracy or criminal solicitation that crossed state lines or used a means of interstate communications (even if such communications were entirely within one state). Whether she gets charged or not is another matter.

We can't know for certain since the FBI doesn't confirm, deny, or comment on on-going investigations. However, if it is true, then I think it is significant.

I'm beginning to suspect that the FBI may be investigating this whole fringe Cult Group (The one that should not be named).

I have heard rumors that they are planning to disband that group, and erase their digital trail. Given that there is already speculation of other potential dead bodies (dropping like flies), I think the FBI needs to grab their files now. JMO
 
One thing I have personally gained from the discussion of this case is an awareness of funeral potatoes. They are on the menu for Monday after being put off for weeks!
I seemed to have missed the lovely discussion about potatoes, as I recall there was a poster or is a poster with potatoes in their name?
 
Funeral potatoes sound delicious, but I have some doubts about Rexburgers. Isn't dinosaur meat in short supply? (I couldn't resist.)
Well on another note, I just realized that I missed the free pancakes at IHOP yesterday for national pancake day, bummer! My grandkids love going there and I love it when it’s free LOL
 
My views on the probability of Lori's childhood trauma is based upon my opinions and my expertise in this area. It is conjecture that it could play a part in her behaviors. I am only having a conversation. FBI creates profiles all the time on criminals based upon prior information from other criminals because they need to understand the person to arrive at a motive. They were met with lots of skepticism but it is now common practice. I am putting it to rest now, however, as there seem to be some strong opinions; to me, it is conversation i have all the time at the office regarding clients. I apologize for making assumptions about my audience here or being insensitive.


I only want to point out a few small things, and then I'll let it drop (I'm still many many pgs back so apologies if these points have already been made). The way I read your first post, with the definitive statement "Lori experienced childhood trauma" I just assumed you were referring to a source I had missed. I think her family history would be fascinating, and illuminating.
But then when someone asked you about your knowledge of LD's childhood, the answer was "it's obvious", and then "Murderers/ sociopaths are caused by childhood trauma, it's learned" This was stated pretty emphatically by you in multiple replies, and links about mental health. [This isn't true by the way, an individual is born psychopathic, they are literally hard wired. That's my opinion, I was a Psych. major and as to sociopaths, sadly after living with my step fathers daughter who has been clinically diagnosed as a Sociopath (APD) at age 20. She had a very normal healthy childhood, and now see's a therapist every few weeks, but is still pretty toxic to anyone who tries to get close to her.]
After the back and forth with other members, you stated that we all needed to consider her mental health
[quote: "No one feels sorry for Lori. At least I do not. But if we form a one sided view of her, we are not being objective and we will miss the truth behind her motives"]
Yes, I agree, however no one else apart from you was making a definitive statement about LVD's trauma. Point being, it wasn't clear to begin with that the post was your opinion, and not fact based. People got confused and asked for sources for the very reason you're now pushing, understanding a bit more about what motivates Lori.

Anyway, I really don't have an Iron in this fire, so to speak, this is just my perception and I hope it doesn't offend you, I certainly wouldn't want that. Personally I believe both Lori and Chad are at the least sociopaths, and it's probably far more complicated than just that. Hopefully it will bring out a few sources, or inspire one of her family members to come forward with info about Lori's earlier life. With two dead siblings, I for one would love to hear more about it!
 
I agree. It also signals to me the first signs of breaking ranks with Lori. It feels like a betrayal if I go with my feelings to explain it, trying out a different behavior now she is in jail and he is not. It smacks of an emerging victim mentality.

moo

Agreed.

I am sure he is thinking how he can put daylight between the two of them.
 
What better way to get your bail reduced "Look judge, here is a video of the kids last night holding yesterdays newspaper, they are having steak dinners at a caregiver's mansion in the mountains, watching TV and playing video games, safe and sound." If only!

Ah but you see all that has to be kept secret until later because REASONS
 
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