Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #21

[Lusitana]

I think in many states the husband at the time of birth is deemed legally the father. No matter of what DNA is. Making the husband responsible for child support. Crazy I know.

That's... weird. What if the biological father of the child actually wants to be in the child's life? Would he have no rights?

 

[FindingJoLee]

Have we had anyone come out in the media who were at this Pool party after CV death yet?

Moo just incase.

Who would admit to that??

I'm pretty sure we know her 2nd husband was CR's father despite the birth record not listing him. He was ordered to pay child support in their divorce.

Not sure if this link will work, but if it goes to the search instead of the docs, then enter Cox for the last name and Lori for the first name and click the first record with N as a middle initial (there are 2 pages of motions to read): https://search.bexar.org/Case/CaseD...x&fn=Lori&m=&&p=2_1996CI18042++++DC0000100000

I think all that birth record tells us is that Lori and CR's father were not together as a couple (or Lori already planned to leave him) by the time CR was born. MOO.

What's interesting to me is if you click Next to go to the first page of motions in the case you see that Lori filed for divorce in Dec 1996 and it looks like her husband filed a motion to quash on Mar 3, 1997. It says "MOTION TO QUASH ANSW TO ORIG PET FOR DIVORCE".
Then in July 1997 Lori responds with "FIRST AMENDED ORIGINAL PET OF LORI NORENE COX" and it seems the divorce proceeds from there. I'm not up on my legalese and my first impression was that a motion to quash meant he was trying to get the divorce thrown out entirely but then I read this definition: What Is a Motion to Quash? | LegalMatch
It seems he was requesting the court to disregard his original answer to the divorce filing? Then they worked things out with back and forth motions in court for a couple years. Final decree of divorce was 2/25/1998. Then child support was set up.

It would be interesting to get the original divorce docs although it probably wouldn't help us solve the missing kids case. I think we may find the situation wasn't how Lori portrayed it to her friend (i.e. saying CR's dad didn't want her). We heard at the beginning of this case through family sources on Gray Hughes that all of Lori's husbands filed for divorce against her but then someone here (sorry I've forgotten who pointed it out) looked at the actual court records and found that Lori filed for the 2nd one. I think she didn't want him for some reason. Or there was some situation she didn't want her friends to know about so she told them he was the one to leave her, rather than telling her friends that she filed for divorce first. MOO.

It's true that he was ordered to pay support. But I think in Texas, if you are married to the birth mother, the law presumes you are the father. Until proven otherwise. He may have been on the hook for support just because she was married to him.

That, and the fact that there is no one named on the BC, is the reason I think this is still open. It's probable that Husband 2 was Colby's dad, but I just don't think that is known.

 

[SuziQ]

That's... weird. What if the biological father of the child actually wants to be in the child's life? Would he have no rights?

I am not sure. This was a law enacted to resolve paternity quickly and efficiently pre blood tests and DNA. States are hanging on to that law too, for some reason.

 

[Gardener1850]

Wouldn’t a DNA test be done to determine paternity for CR for child support?

Yes. Especially when she didn't list a father on the birth record. I would think most men would question that and want to prove it was their child they were being ordered to pay child support for... But, then again, he may have always believed he was the father and perhaps didn't even contest paternity. I believe he's CR's bio father and he accepted paying Lori child support but wasn't otherwise involved in CR's life (i.e. he didn't wage decades of custody battles like JR did for Tylee). MOO.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Chad almost seems like he is going to crack. He did visit the jailhouse, most likely to get hit up to bail her out. Or slip her a file. Oh well, he better book a flight to Idaho, because she is going back to Idaho on Tuesday. In the meantime, now that it has come out that Melani's new husband has dropped the dime on her, and told LEO that she confessed to him that she (and likely Lori) conspired to kill BB and sent Alex to do the dirty work (again)... wondering when SHE will also be arrested? Soooon I hope!
#LockThemUp

Just curious, if children are killed before their mother gets remarried, is the new spouse really a step-father?

 

[FindingJoLee]

That's... weird. What if the biological father of the child actually wants to be in the child's life? Would he have no rights?

If he wants to be the legal parent in states where this is the law, he would have to establish his paternity.

 

[SuziQ]

Just curious, if children are killed before their mother gets remarried, is the new spouse really a step-father?

Burn!

 

[FindingJoLee]

Just curious, if children are killed before their mother gets remarried, is the new spouse really a step-father?

THANK YOU. It has gotten on my last nerve to hear that term used to describe him.

 

[raysgirl1126]

DBM - double post

 

[Hippoinatutu]

Who would admit to that??

Well you could say you had no idea what had happened that morning until days later.

You could have said it had been arranged for weeks but when we arrived Lori had forgotten to cancel. But she insisted we all stayed.

You could say lori and taylee were not there and it was jj friends and their parents. It was strange but we made most of it and had pool party.

There are plenty of ways normal people could get dragged into this mess. Its just suprising no one has come forward even anonymously.

Makes me think prehaps it does have a more sinister meaning. Moo

 

[Gardener1850]

I think in many states the husband at the time of birth is deemed legally the father. No matter of what DNA is. Making the husband responsible for child support. Crazy I know.

That may be, but he didn't contest paying it... I think he's the father. But I'm not sure why it even matters if there's another unknown bio father for CR? Or why we are discussing that as a possibility? Other than that would fit with Lori's life pattern of lying and manipulating men to get what she wants. So it doesn't really tell us anything new if that were to be the case. MOO.

 

[Colorado303]

That's a funny thought. It would be great if he was on the same flight. Even better if he got a first class seat and Lori was in Coach. But somehow I suspect he won't have any way of knowing what flight she's on although odds are it will involve Delta and involve going through Salt Lake.

I'm not sure they could stop him from being on the flight if he managed to book a seat on the right flight.

The logistics of how they'll do it are interesting to ponder. I have no clue what the process would be if, for example, she was in Florida and being extradicted to Idaho. Would she be flown in that situation or would Idaho send two or three guards in a van to drive down and bring her back? I'd think that is more likely than flying and that only Alaska and Hawaii (as far as extradictions between states) would involve flying the person. I can say that I spent a period where I flew a ton and I don't remember ever seeing anyone in handcuffs, leg irons, or other restraints. I'm thinking the airline might want to keep the fact that this was going on low key, but I also would think that some restraint would be needed. Even though Lori might not be likely to turn physical and attack passengers and such, she could, and the risk for a lot of prisoners would be higher but the same procedures would apply to Lori.

I joked about Chad flying first class, but it occured to me that it might make sense for Lori to be the one in first class. put her and a couple guards in the front rows of first class, have them be the last to come on the plane, just before closing the doors, and get them off immediately on opening the doors. I think they can route them to and from the plane through places other than the regular concourses. I'm also thinking they fly her to SF or LA unless there is a non-stop on Delta to SLC, then put her in a van for the rest of the trip. The reason I'm thinking the front row of first class and the sneaking on last second, then off immediately, is that I know they do this with celebrities as needed. I was on a flight years ago from Chicago to SLC with Della Reese when they were filming the series "Touched by an Angel" in Salt Lake. The only way I knew she was on the plane was I was in first class and happened to look up and notice her when she and her traveling companion came on at the last second. They got her off quick as well and she was no where to be seen by the time I got off, not very far behind her.

Years ago I was flying on United from NC to Chicago. I was in coach, towards the back of the plane in an aisle seat. The guy sitting next to me in the middle seat was in handcuffs. In the window seat next to him was a plain clothed LE officer. As we were deplaning I learned there was another LE person in plainclothes traveling with them who’d been seated across the aisle and one row back in the aisle seat.

I started chatting w/the guy before I noticed the handcuffs. Making small talk I asked him where he was headed (flights out of Greensboro were limited and most people on that flight were just connecting through O’Hare). I don’t remember what his final destination was just that it wasn’t Chicago. I asked if he was going there for work he said “not exactly” and showed me his wrists. Then the window seat guy leaned forward and kind of waved at me. Cuffed guy introduced me to window guy (“my escort, Jim”) and the three of us chatted a little about mundane stuff — flight time, weather, etc.

I don’t know what the guy did or if his escort was police, FBI, corrections etc. Just that he was being “transferred”. At the time I assumed he was being extradited but I guess it could have been a prison transfer.

So apparently they will transport people by air within the 48 contiguous states if the distance is long enough.

One thing that struck me is other passengers were gawking but none of the flight attendants seemed curious about the guy in cuffs. (It was obvious he was wearing them when he reached for his soft drink, took his packet of peanuts and handed them his trash). I got the impression they’d seen it enough times that any novelty had worn off.

 

[caseface]

Based upon charges alone, i do believe Lori's constitutional rights are being violated with the extremely high bail, flight risk or not. As a result, i would hope some sort of new evidence will come to light during the new bond hearing to justify the high bail.

 

[yawningreyhound]

Hope this isn't a duplicate, I checked back 3 pages and didn't see it but if it is, forgive please!

Mom of 2 missing Idaho kids wants $5 million bail reduced - The Garden Island

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

2 pm HST = 7 pm EST

Chad better rustle up a quick $500k for bail or else he is going to be in the dog house!

 

[Kicky]

I’ve had a lot of catching up to do! I snipped, trimmed and/or bolded the following replies for emphasis and/or brevity. Just some thoughts before I must leave again for the day, or two or three:

Regarding the "going dark" or "zombie" references - I had the exact same thought long ago towards the beginning when we first began seeing references to their beliefs in the of "going dark" or "dark spirits" or even the spurious "zombies" reference. It's a dehumanizing tactic that makes it a lot easier to take a life. This is a tactic that almost all serial killers use in various forms. The dehumanization of victims makes the killing so much easier and empowers the killer to take that life because in their mind they have already reduced the victim(s) to sub-human and therefore not worthy of any real remorse.

What you’re talking about here (in the bold text) came to mind when I heard Lori had referred to JJ as her “niece's drug baby”. I found it so chilling; it showed that she'd re-framed JJ in her mind - he's not her beloved (adopted) son who she (reportedly) doted on since he was a baby - he now belongs to someone else, he is something else, something she's not connected to. It's a sign to me that she was set, or starting to set her mind, on being rid of him. Was his "light" starting to dim?

the “active acid pits”...

Alex did know a lot about hazardous materials... He knew about the say, basics of how an acid pool worked.

With acid pools, that could easily dissolve a body since September.

I could have quoted many more, these posts were a few I saw early yesterday. Honestly I've seen many people seemingly latch onto the idea of Tylee being killed (or her body destroyed) in an acid pool. (Ugh, it turns my stomach typing that.) Still, I can't see her Uncle Alex, though he was a violent man (well documented) and may have killed or attempted to kill, and more than once (both extremely likely, IMO) - I just can’t see how he pushed her in a boiling hot, sulfuric acid pool. That's such a cruel and disgusting way to harm or kill someone you loved since they were little, my gosh. A bat to the back of the head would be less brutal... If he did get the job of killing her from Lori, at this point he must have shared Lori's feelings about why Tylee needed to go (religious beliefs, or criminal motives, or both). I mean, you've got to jump through some huge mental hoops to arrive at the conclusion that your son or niece must go (dehumanizing them is part of it, as described above.). But I don't see Alex taking the additional step of discarding her so violently - I'm not defending him, he's a loathsome, violent, terrible person - MOO is, it's just not likely. Not to mention the risk of her grabbing onto him or fighting him, and him falling in with her! No, if he killed her, I imagine it was strangulation or gun shot. (In fact, I'm reminded of a scene in The Sopranos, in the last season, also in the autumn, where someone drives to a remote location to get rid of someone who was once beloved... that was a sad scene, and it was only TV.) *heavy sigh*
Whether or not he destroyed her remains in an acid pool is another argument for another day, but even that I feel is excessive and unnecessary. And dangerous, too.

While I'm venting about Yellowstone, I want to mention it doesn't really matter if the notorious "ZONE of DEATH" is a real thing or not (it isn't*), what matters is what Alex and Lori thought about it. Could it have been worth it to them to chose that area over miles and miles of other remote spots inside or outside of the park because of some weird theory they fell for?
*ETA @AZlawyer, thank you for putting this to bed (finally?) a few pages back. I sincerely hope we're done with the death zone arguments (right, @DoctorAttorney? )

I do believe that religion can be weaponized if people allow it.

“... with or without religion good people will behave well and bad people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” - Steven Weinberg, theoretical physicist

<modsnip: off topic>

@Dontknow? re: "fake creepy LDS sex troll"?
I've seen Lori Vallow described in plenty... let's say... "colorful" adjectives, and have seen her called many a bad name, but this takes the cake. It's just my favorite. Sorry I no longer have the link to your post. I know her behavior is maddening... I hope it eases your frustration to know you gave me a chuckle.

@squareandrabbet, I noticed a post of yours in an earlier thread where you mentioned the book "Educated" by Tara Westover. I looked it up and it is now on my list of must-reads. Thanks!

If it wasn't made clear in my language above, my posts are only my opinion, and MOO.
I have a few more thoughts (about JR's custody battle and his treatment at the hands of AC, about AC's murder - or suicide, about CD's 1-star book reviews...) I hope to share them if and when I have time, even if it means I'll be replying to posts pages (and threads) back. It's a welcome challenge, keeping up with you all here. I continue to hope we will see (or even help get) justice for Tylee, JJ, Tammy Daybell, and Charles Vallow.

 

[caseface]

If he'd spent 35 percent of the $430,000, he'd still have $278,000 in the bank, not $152,000. In any event, I doubt he's spent much more than 30k (just air fares, hotels, rentals, lease down payments, etc.). I would think he has the rest of the funds (or something close) at a different location.

I wonder how much he can draw out in cash in order to hide it in this period of time? I'm sure there are restrictions or at least lots of red tape to doing so.

 

[Gardener1850]

Who would admit to that??


It's true that he was ordered to pay support. But I think in Texas, if you are married to the birth mother, the law presumes you are the father. Until proven otherwise. He may have been on the hook for support just because she was married to him.

That, and the fact that there is no one named on the BC, is the reason I think this is still open. It's probable that Husband 2 was Colby's dad, but I just don't think that is known.

Why wouldn't he contest it? I mean, sure it's possible there is another bio father of CR. But what does that tell us? Why is it important to this case? I think we need to tread carefully here and imagine that CR and other family members may be reading our words. I think it's pretty insensitive to CR to keep insisting that the man that was married to his mother at the time of his birth and the man who paid child support for him may not be his bio father (without any evidence of that and with it only being your speculation/opinion). Although CR has said he considered Charles to be his father (in a relationship sense not in a biological sense) and that he never had a relationship with his bio father, these accusations by strangers on a crime message board can be really hurtful. MOO.

(I'm going to try to stop discussing it now as I've given my opinion pretty clearly and I don't want to beat a dead horse).

 

[yawningreyhound]

Based upon charges alone, i do believe Lori's constitutional rights are being violated with the extremely high bail, flight risk or not. As a result, i would hope some sort of new evidence will come to light during the new bond hearing to justify the high bail.

The trail of bodies a mile wide notwithstanding?

(just adding a bit of levity to the situation, there's no info that she killed any of them)

 

[yawningreyhound]

double click, dbm.