Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

[LDS social scientist]

I'm obviously not a moderator, but wanted to thank you for your weighing in on those issues of religion that have come up. IMO, you, more than any of the other commenters (myself definitely included) have been able to give knowledgeable and what I've viewed as balanced, unbiased thoughts on these subjects. You don't shy away from issues that are potentially problematic to some devout members, yourself included, but also don't attack or over state things like some of us (glances away from the mirror) might be inclined to do. We had some conflict early on in these threads because the devout Mormons felt attacked and defensive at times, not always reasonably, IMO. But everyone having their hands slapped a few times we'd hit a happy medium, but I think you've taken us to the next level in our discourse on the religious subjects when they come up.

MOO

appreciate that

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes. In the last 50 years the number of temples has increased dramatically. I remembered the number as being about 12 temples total 50 years ago. In the 80s they went on a building spree and the number is now around 200. You'll remember Chad's suggestion that Tammy play Frontierville less (I think that was the game) and spend the time doing genelogical research. The reason (or at least one of the big ones) that Mormons are so into researching ancestory is that they believe certain temple ordinances need to be performed for a person, in proxy if they're dead, in order for them to get into the better neighborhoods in heaven. (Mormon haven has three different levels with requirements being steeper for the nicer levels.) Of course if we're really in the last days, given the number of people who will need to be baptized and possibly married in proxy in a temple, they've got a gap between what is achievable and what is required.

All of that is to say that from the standpoint of their stated beliefs the cost of the temples is very much justified. That's not to say that there aren't valid complaints about the amount they spend on what could be termed charatible programs and how much money they have tied up in businesses and investments (in excess of 100 billion based on some recent news reporting). But from the standpoint of temples, they do need temples accessible to as many members as they can and lots of them for sure.[/QUOTE
...

 

[Evan's Mom]

Listening to the podcast again and my god do these people pat themselves on the back! Also JM imagines himself as a badass and pounds the point home over and over.

 

[fuzzybutter]

I’ve been following this story closer than I’d like to admit. That being said I stumbled across a tweet early this morning that has me shook to the point where I believe it will eventually become evidence in the case.

I honestly believe Lori or Alex has watched this video. I think this 3 minute VOX video from 2016 is why they chose Yellowstone to make TR disappear and I think this professors legal theory referenced in the video will be what we see as a defense.

Credit to @tellingoffmytv on twitter who as of now no one else seems to have noticed.

The YZD has been noticed and discussed by this list for weeks. Right now, it is an urban legend and legal brainteaser for law professors. It is also very difficult to get to the YZD and impossible during a day trip.

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

also have some experience (personal, school) w ASD kids, and am thinking the same

I feel like Charles was likely the person who kept JJ safe and met his needs (getting him the service dog etc) and once he was dead Lori no longer wanted a lifelong connection to that side of the family. Which JJ as CV's sisters grandson would have meant. Her actions, selling Dog/ pulling him out of his school/ telling the nanny that his meds make him sleepy and she will sometimes give them early to get a "break" . All point to her seeing him as a road block to her "fabulous life". Even before that when she took just Tylee to Hawaii, leaving JJ (with CV living in Tx) for around a month.

I also think that poor JJ really did love her and had bonded b/c the nanny said he was very upset when she left, and had a melt down about it at times. MOO

I really wonder what happened with Tylee, b/c that relationship at least outwardly seemed very close?!

 

[Sticksandspades]

alright....I listened to the whole intro podcast. NO Chad. A tiny bit of Melanie G and Lori, but mostly just Jason. And they sure do love themselves, as someone else pointed out. I did love that the homework given at the end was to make your bed (literally or figuratively) every day, and to focus on delayed gratification. I'll bet it killed Lori and Chad to wait two whole weeks after Tammy's death to get married, but they delayed gratification, right? (Groan) If anyone has the copies of the ones from this past September, though, I will stomach through and listen to those too.

Done!

totally twisted themes for the those that can stomach this
1. none of us are claiming to be experts - MOO thank goodness
2. tell the truth - the good, bad and the ugly - MOO I could see this on a Billboard
3. focus on natural healing vs. prescription drugs
4. good vs. evil, black vs. white, correct or incorrect - MOO they seem to think like light witches with no dimmer
5. references to counseling youth - HS, sports, books, church, focusing on youth looking for direction
6. being a mother and children.....i cant even go there
7. Homework as mentioned by @findher8

 

[jjenny]

I feel like Charles was likely the person who kept JJ safe and met his needs (getting him the service dog etc) and once he was dead Lori no longer wanted a lifelong connection to that side of the family. Which JJ as CV's sisters grandson would have meant. Her actions, selling Dog/ pulling him out of his school/ telling the nanny that his meds make him sleepy and she will sometimes give them early to get a "break" . All point to her seeing him as a road block to her "fabulous life". Even before that when she took just Tylee to Hawaii, leaving JJ (with CV living in Tx) for around a month.

I also think that poor JJ really did love her and had bonded b/c the nanny said he was very upset when she left, and had a melt down about it at times. MOO

I really wonder what happened with Tylee, b/c that relationship at least outwardly seemed very close?!

Tylee went missing first. She wasn't seen since September 8th. From what I can tell, Tylee was very attached to JJ and per her brother Colby, Tylee even took on a "mothering" role. Tylee'f friend also claimed that Tylee didn't want to move to Idaho, but moved because of JJ, whom she was very protective of. Unfortunately with Tylee gone, Charles gone, no contact with grandparents (not for the lack of trying on grandparents part), there was nobody left to protect JJ.

 

[findher8]

Thanks for the summary (and taking one for the team). I think I’m allergic to JMs voice. There’s something about him that doesn’t sit well with me. I got to 30mins and have had to take a break. JMO

Did you ever see Napoleon Dynamite? His voice makes me feel like I am listening to the weird guy who teaches martial arts in the movie. I can't unsee that image of the martial arts teacher with Jason's voice.

 

[Anonymous91]

I was raised very conservative LDS. I love the basics of my religion, but I also see how it can be easy to misinterpret scripture, doctrinal teachings, etc. We are taught to follow the prophet at all times. This can carry over to other “high up” leaders also. Usually public speakers have to be approved by the congregational leader and thus can create trust on what is being taught.

LDS doctrine incorrectly taught by someone who is trusted can rationalize fringe style beliefs like- polgamy, anti-government and even murder in some cases!
I remember as a child being disturbed by a very popular scripture story. There is even a children’s song about it. The scripture is in the Book of Mormon where the righteous prophet Nephi cuts off the head of Laban while he is drunk and asleep.

It is explained in scripture that “It is better that one man perish than a nation dwindle and perish in unbelief.“

As a very young child I was very conflicted and disturbed over this scripture. How did he know God told him and not Satan? what if Satan tells me to kill someone and I think it’s from God? These thoughts were from when I was younger than 8 years old!
This scripture is taught to children in Sunday school class starting at 3 years old!

Our religion teaches there will be a gathering of the lost tribes Israel at the last days and righteous will be called to help gather them in.

According to CV court documents LV has claimed just this.

She is obsessed with end of times and has listened to these speakers who have mislead her into believing their absurd prophecies. According to her she is an end of times leader (I’m assuming CD and/or JR or others have convinced her of this with their ”prophecies”) and will not let anyone stand in her way of gathering the 144,000, including if she has to resort to murder. Also used this as a reason to “gather” money.
Between his “prophecies” and manipulations and in turn her charismatic behavior, looks and manipulations. They have entangled each other and several others. A perfect firestorm.
This is all just MOO, of course.

I second this.

One of the problems is that you have the surface level stuff, then you got the deep doctrine stuff. Members are given a lot of leeway on what they teach.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard incorrect beliefs and doctrine being taught at church to all of the active members attending. What is really surprising, is that there are those in high leadership positions that are guilty of this too. MOO

Now, if one doesn't know any better, I can see how this can be dangerous.

The gospel tends to be dumbed down for children to understand it better, but sometimes that leads to having a misunderstanding of very important doctrinal principles.

So, for example, there is a Primary song "Follow The Prophet" (Follow the Prophet). This is taught to young children, and there are many that grow up knowing this song by heart.

What the official Church's position is that we believe in Christ, that he is our salvation and our rock. Our living prophet is there to guide us, and provide prophecy from God as directed. Prophets have warned against "blind faith", We are encouraged to study, ponder, and pray to receive our own testimonies. Faith is an individual process for each of us.

That being said, you rarely hear this. I have heard members say to follow the prophet and to not question it.

As you can see, this can be confusing if you don't understand the whole picture.

Now you have some that believe that you have blind faith in prophets, and are unaware that this is not a correct principle. MOO

There are plenty of other doctrines in the church this can be applied to also.

You get enough of this going on and being enforced by parents, you have religious beliefs that are not even part of the LDS religion. At this point, it's not much of a stretch to see how this could spiral out of control.

This is just my opinion. MOO

 

[Picklepuck]

alright....I listened to the whole intro podcast. NO Chad. A tiny bit of Melanie G and Lori, but mostly just Jason. And they sure do love themselves, as someone else pointed out. I did love that the homework given at the end was to make your bed (literally or figuratively) every day, and to focus on delayed gratification. I'll bet it killed Lori and Chad to wait two whole weeks after Tammy's death to get married, but they delayed gratification, right? (Groan) If anyone has the copies of the ones from this past September, though, I will stomach through and listen to those too.

Yes, he mentioned something about getting into a "clean" bed. Just made me think of the rental application... "clean couple" with no pets or kids. I also think Jason looks a bit like AC in pics I've seen where he shaves the beard. JMO

 

[b2alicia]

Gosh, not sure I'll ever catch up with these threads, lol.

I hate to say this because I realize there are still a few people out there hoping that JJ and Tylee are okay, but with the news that LE/FBI plan on searching Yellowstone area when it thaws, AND because CD was a grave digger for many years, I think it's important to share what I've found researching this from different angles..

There is a place near Chads home just outside of Rexburg where in 2015 according to Chads website, he and his family (parents/ sibling/ kids etc.) Vacationed called Island Point in ID. It's just north and off Rt 20. Chad claims this is the place where "God" first spoke to him and told him he would move to Idaho... There are lots of deeply wooded spaces in the area not to mention a big lake, and he knows it well... (Several pictures taken both with his kids and his wife Tammy at this location) I believe if he were burying either remains or even weapons, he would chose an area he was familiar with, that is not often searched. Plus Rt 20 is the way he would likely drive to Yellowstone. I'm just hoping LE may have some GPS or cell tower info that places them in either this area, OR just a bit further north again near Rt. 20 at a trail called Bottleneck Lake hiking trail.
Why Bottleneck... This is an area local hikers in Id say is remote and less traveled then many other trails. This is a place CL and his kids have also been (as per website) Also (and take this with a huge grain of Salt) a well known Medium, who has both worked in LE, and helped them in missing persons cases previously,( I spoke to her and if any family or close friends in this case wish to contact her, she will freely read for them directly), had a vision about this case, she has several Youtubes (not sure how to post them, or if anyone would even be interested) with what exactly she picked up on the two children... And, she does believe they are no longer alive. I could explain more of the details but not sure anyone here cares to hear them because obviously it's Opinion Only. BUT maybe just maybe there is some kind of evidence or record of Chad or Lori or even Tylee's Cell phone being near these area's. Because LE are starting to search for remains or will be at the thaw, I felt it important to post here in the hopes that maybe it will help and someone who knows the area will read it.

Sending love and prayers, to JJ and Tylee and everyone who loves them!!

TLDR, JMO, MOO!

Ooh, have you shared this with LE? I guess more than likely they have this info already. Or maybe run it by a moderator to find out the best course of action? That sounds like a GREAT tip to me.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes. In the last 50 years the number of temples has increased dramatically. I remembered the number as being about 12 temples total 50 years ago. In the 80s they went on a building spree and the number is now around 200. You'll remember Chad's suggestion that Tammy play Frontierville less (I think that was the game) and spend the time doing genelogical research. The reason (or at least one of the big ones) that Mormons are so into researching ancestory is that they believe certain temple ordinances need to be performed for a person, in proxy if they're dead, in order for them to get into the better neighborhoods in heaven. (Mormon haven has three different levels with requirements being steeper for the nicer levels.) Of course if we're really in the last days, given the number of people who will need to be baptized and possibly married in proxy in a temple, they've got a gap between what is achievable and what is required.

All of that is to say that from the standpoint of their stated beliefs the cost of the temples is very much justified. That's not to say that there aren't valid complaints about the amount they spend on what could be termed charatible programs and how much money they have tied up in businesses and investments (in excess of 100 billion based on some recent news reporting). But from the standpoint of temples, they do need temples accessible to as many members as they can and lots of them for sure.[/QUOTE
...

Two things at work here, so figuring out what a study is showing you can be interesting because either or both might apply.

First, a religious person is more likely to think they are "addicted to *advertiser censored*" or have a *advertiser censored* view problem even if they are viewing it exactly as much as a non-religious person who doesn't think they have a problem.

*advertiser censored* vs. Religion

But there is also lots of things indicating religious people actually do resort to watching *advertiser censored* more. (Figuring out why that might be should be trivial, so I won't.)

15 Mind-Blowing Statistics About *advertiser censored* And The Church

I mentioned Utah being worse than other states and finding articles saying so is trivial. Here is one:

Which State Consumes The Most Online *advertiser censored*?

However, I just found this article that argues the study that is cited in those articles about Utah's problem has issues. I'll let you read and decide on your own.

Is Utah #1 in *advertiser censored* Use?

Thanks for the interesting diversion! However... can't decide. ha ha

 

[Anonymous91]

I think it's evident Lori knew how to control Alex. Quite how one does that (barring the use of blackmail) and what that says about his mental health I'm not at all sure, but I think she did.

All his actions to me look like he was following a plan laid out for him - killing Charles, moving to Rexburg, marriage (at his age and no prior marriages I'm aware of). And then his demise. Perhaps with a little help? Who knows. I have my suspicions. Including why his wife's adult son was not told about their marriage - perhaps the thinking was he wouldn't ever need to know?

moo

That's true, didn't notice that until you pointed it out.

Every LDS person (I know of) would make it a point to invite their immediate family (at the very least). In fact, most of the receptions I have attended number in the 100's.

The son wasn't even aware that his mom was married, he thought it was her boyfriend. That is a whole level of strange. MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Done!

totally twisted themes for the those that can stomach this
1. none of us are claiming to be experts - MOO thank goodness
2. tell the truth - the good, bad and the ugly - MOO I could see this on a Billboard
3. focus on natural healing vs. prescription drugs
4. good vs. evil, black vs. white, correct or incorrect - MOO they seem to think like light witches with no dimmer
5. references to counseling youth - HS, sports, books, church, focusing on youth looking for direction
6. being a mother and children.....i cant even go there
7. Homework as mentioned by @findher8

#3. There ya go. Jmo

 

[Nurse Gen]

Done!

totally twisted themes for the those that can stomach this
1. none of us are claiming to be experts - MOO thank goodness
2. tell the truth - the good, bad and the ugly - MOO I could see this on a Billboard
3. focus on natural healing vs. prescription drugs
4. good vs. evil, black vs. white, correct or incorrect - MOO they seem to think like light witches with no dimmer
5. references to counseling youth - HS, sports, books, church, focusing on youth looking for direction
6. being a mother and children.....i cant even go there
7. Homework as mentioned by @findher8

Thanks for this @Sticksandspades. #3 especially struck a chord, as I have years of Nursing experience in Pediatric Psychiatry. Could not understand why anyone would want to withhold risperdal from a child who needs it. JMO #3 is a possible explanation. Also IMHO if you withheld risperdal and the child then began to exhibit the symptoms of his medical condition (doorbell cam of JJ cursing etc) you might be in a position to determine that the child is possessed by a demon, becoming a zombie, whatever instead of recognizing that you are failing to manage a medical condition and therefore the one to blame for the child's behavior.
This is heartbreaking

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

A few minor corrections and some comments.

That's Island Park, not Island Point.

Not really important, but the way I've seen the story he was on his way home (to Utah at the time) when he stopped for gas in St Anthony (just north of Rexburg) and God spoke to him then, as he was looking south over the area where Salem and Sugar City are (where he eventually moved) telling him he would soon live there.

I'm somewhat familiar with the area of Island Park and agree with your point about that area having a lot of places that could be good to dispose of a body or bodies. However ...

I'd never heard of Bottleneck Lake. It didn't ring a bell with me at all. But you said you got there by going further on highway 20. So I went looking for it, thinking maybe it was outside of the area I know well. I thought when you said going further it would be continuing east on highway 20 since (while really more north in this stretch) you'd be going east from Rexburg to Island Park. But then highway 20 goes through Yellowstone park and across Wyoming. I didn't find a Bottleneck Lake that way, but found one if you were to go west instead. But that's going away from Yellowstone when leaving Rexburg. It's in the boundaries of Craters of the Moon National Monument. Also could potentially be a good place to dump a body, but not really in the same area as others that have been discussed, nor as likely, IMO, as the others for someone from Rexburg to use. (I think they have a lot more logical places closer.)

Yes, thank you! I'm nowhere near that part of the country, (I'm in Boston) so my sense of direction is coming from Google Earth. And YES I completely meant Island Park!

My understanding of Chad's "God vision or prophecy??" was that his mother had rented a cabin for the entire family, at Island Park in 2015, I found some collaboration on his brothers? family website mentioning a trip there in 2009 as well.. Idk if he was standing by the Lake or at a nearby gas station, but regardless it was this trip to Island park which seemed to mean so much to him. Interestingly one of his pictures with Tammy is at the falls in IIRC Henry's fork, which he labels Island Park, but I think they are actually two different area's. Again not knowing this area at all

If I try to explain the significance of Rt. 20, you'll really think I'm loopy, but I've been searching lots of websites, and trying to think outside of the box on this case. One site tied to an extended family member, (not currently mentioned in MSM) talked about the Bottleneck Lake hiking trail, and after googling it, the area looks like a spot CD might have know and liked?! I'm sure it's obvious by now, that I do not believe the kids are alive. So pushing aside all the twists and turns of this case I've been trying to come up with potential places that their remains could be.... If that makes sense.

And maybe LE has some actual evidence of them traveling that way?!

Thank you again! Your knowledge of the area in invaluable IMO.

MOO

 

[Anonymous91]

I agree with you! He sounds like a man enthralled with his beautiful slew of “followers”. The first time I read something of his was here: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #2

From that post above these are chads words talking about his one foot in the grave book. This is where my opinion of him formed. I don’t see him as a dedicated to his wife strict Mormon here. I would think if that were the case he wouldn’t be discussing multiple dates he had in any form. The following is BBM:

One Foot in the Grave - Behind the Scenes
A later version includes this tidbit as well on this page.

Here's a story that was in the first draft of the book, but for whatever reason it got trimmed out. I like it, though, even though it brings back bad memories. I call it: "Two strikes is enough."
I didn’t start working at the cemetery until I was out of high school, but my friends and I took dates there twice. Both turned out memorably.
The first one was after a school dance, and for some reason my friend Mark pulled into the cemetery. We got out of the car for a minute, but we didn’t get nervous -- until a police car came squealing up behind us.
The cop really raked Mark over the coals. The cop made us feel as if we’d broken every law on the books. The fun was over and we took our dates home. But six months later I tried it with another batch of friends, with even less success.
It was a triple date, and when we parked the car the three guys hopped out of the car and ran off through the cemetery, leaving the girls behind. The girls screamed a bit at being left alone, but then one of them wisely slid over into the driver’s seat and drove away! That wasn’t what we’d planned.
The girls eventually came back for us after a stop at a convenience store where they told everyone what they’d done. But even worse, as I saw the girls drive off, I started running after the car. Bad mistake. I failed to see a three-foot-high sprinkler pipe in my path, but my crotch didn’t fail to miss it. Yeow!
I had barely begun to recover when the girls returned a few minutes later. (Of course, my friends thought my little accident was hilarious.) In my mind, that was two strikes on cemetery dates, and I never had the courage to find out what a third date there would bring. Strike three would likely kill me.

This seriously creeps me out. Who in there right mind brings a date to the cemetery? MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I’ve been following this story closer than I’d like to admit. That being said I stumbled across a tweet early this morning that has me shook to the point where I believe it will eventually become evidence in the case.

I honestly believe Lori or Alex has watched this video. I think this 3 minute VOX video from 2016 is why they chose Yellowstone to make TR disappear and I think this professors legal theory referenced in the video will be what we see as a defense.

Credit to @tellingoffmytv on twitter who as of now no one else seems to have noticed.

Many many people here have dismissed any relevance to the Death zone. However, thank you so very much for posting, for the visual was so clarifying. And given the anti-government stance of the whole family, I bet you are right that they considered this!

 

[janx]

I've been looking at some LDS boards. It appears that a lot of LDS folks were onto Chad & Co's modus operandi years ago. And if I remember correctly, an LDS member who posts here mentioned something about concern on the part of officials in the LDS Church about their activity.

 

[tresir2012]

Indicolite22 posted on Thread #22, page 61, post 1204:
Melani's lawyer said after her court appearance (seen in Justin Lum's video) that the media should not be taking Charles' divorce statements that Lori claimed she was a god as fact. It looks like they are not only defending Melani, but Lori as well.

Neither of these lawyers are listed with Idaho Bar. Attorney Roster Search
Mr. Jarvis seems to specialize in criminal law, so it will be interesting how he pursues such a contentious family litigation.
Interesting tidbit here on Mr. Smith, Esq. : Garrett Smith | Mesa, AZ, Maricopa County Attorney

If they are not listed with the Idaho Bar, what does that mean in reality? Are they still considered officers of the court in a court of law? Do they need and have licences to practice law in Idaho or can a defendant have anyone they want to represent them, even an unqualified lay person, for example ?