Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #35

[tresir2012]

First, to forestall any impressions that I am asking about this loan agreement as a way of casting aspersions on Charles's business practices, I most definitely am not. While the selling of annuities has potential for abuse, I have searched diligently and have found no (zero, zilch, gar nichts) evidence or even hints that Charles was any less straight in his business dealings than he was in his personal life. The poor guy has been dead for almost a year and it is certain that by now anybody with a complaint would have surfaced on social media or elsewhere.

Also, for sleuths who hunt down the original document (which is a public record, which I have redacted, and whose link I will provide to the mods on request), be warned the company that PFS was invested in has a less than stellar reputation. In addition, after diligent search I have found no evidence to indicate the relationship between the two companies persisted long enough to make the public record. The balance of evidence is that the loan document defines a relationship that was soon dissolved. For these reasons I have redacted its name and hope that others respect that decision.

Now that we've settled that, the attached document raises a question for those of us who believe in following the money, to wit: where did the $200K go? There's little evidence that the Vallows had any significant assets, and the nature of his business was such that he had minimal fixed expenses. That's a big chunk of change to just vanish. Did Lori end up with it?

I think she probably took the remaining $35k of this in Jan 2019 when she went to Hawaii with Tylee. In the Oct 2016 loan document it mentions interest of 7% but does not state whether that is annual or monthly. They were still in Hawaii in 2016 weren't they?

ETA annual interest alone at 7% on $200k would be $14,000. So I wonder if that has been paid? Four years interest would be $56,000 on top of the capital owed.

 

[tresir2012]

Trying to brainstorm where the kids might be so I went to Pinterest. I found TR's page. I hadn't looked at her boards previously and apologize if this is a repeat. One stood out, she made a board dedicated to a favorite tv show The Supernatural which is described on wiki as a dark fantasy in which 2 brothers hunt demons, ghosts, monsters and other supernatural beings. The descriptions of the episodes mention the apocalypse, special tablets, the mark of cain... Supernatural (American TV series) - Wikipedia
The show ended Oct 10, 2019. I wonder if LV watched this with her and was influenced? Tylee's pinterest page may be older but there was nothing LDS or relating to dorm room decoration. I did a brief look at her followers and who she was following. I did not see LV. Has anyone found her page or one for TD? Wondering if there were any locations mentioned in their boards that either LV or CD would put the kids. Anyone familiar with this show or have you all discussed this and I missed it?

Could you link TR's Pinterest? This sounds interesting. How did the last couple of episodes end up?

ETA NVM I have found her Pinterest and here is the link.

Tylee Ryan (Tyleearyan) on Pinterest

 

[Bazinga]

I rewatched all three parts of Melanie's interview with Nate and rewatched the police interview where Lori/Tylee/MG are reporting that Charles stole Lori's purse.
It's maddening that MG sat by affirming all of Lori's lies. Lori said repeatedly that Charles was cheating on her, that she caught him cheating and that is what started this episode. MG sits by knowing that it is actually Lori that is cheating with Chad. MG says to the police officer that Charles deceived her (MG), conned her by asking her to come to the house. When she got there Charles was there with two locksmiths changing locks. MG says he "proceeded to act like himself" (clearly MG thought he was possibly a zombie) and he wanted to know what's got into Lori? where is Lori? Poor Charles.

 

[indicolite22]

Jesse character is adopted boy that disappears: Jesse Turner

I don't know if this was something that LV watched but TR did. It isn't exactly the same but there are weird similarities that if someone were already interested in CD's books and this type of entertainment, it could have influenced her in some manner.

I don't think Lori came up with the light/dark stuff. She was the one asking Chad to rate her family. I believe than he was calling the shots when it came to zombies. At least in Charles' case this was confirmed by MG.

 

[fred&edna]

In listening (and reading transcript @ 5:14 & 5:52 specifically) Part 3 of the MG interview with EIN, she mentions that they all were in the same ward and shared the same bishop, and this bishop was unaware of the background. Does anyone know if this is/was the same bishop as mentioned in Justin Lum report here??:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix on Facebook Watch


Part 3 of MG interview

 

[indicolite22]

Do we know when MG was asked by Alex and Melani to drive by Brandon's house in Gilbert to see if Melani's kids were there? She mentions that Brandon had moved out two weeks prior, so it could have been around the time Tammy died. Apparently Alex was in Arizona. Could it have happened in November?

 

[Tortoise]

I'm trying to establish the timing of MG's interactions with Alex, and other linked events, based on her interview. Entries in blue text are not factual, they are my guesses. I guess I'm interested in knowing what impact her actions and questions might have had on the rest of the group.

Tue 26 Nov

Welfare check for JJ. Police speak to Chad, Alex and Lori.
Chad drives away and police speak to him again.
Chad calls MG (who is in Utah) and asks her not to pick up when police call, tells her JJ is not with Kay and Lori is going to tell police JJ is with MG.
Lori calls MG and asks her to lie about having JJ.
MG planned to drive to AZ for Thanksgiving.
Police speak to MG late that evening.
Lori and Alex are packing up a truck that evening.

Wed 27 Nov

Police return to find empty apartments.
MG is driving to AZ. On the drive she calls Lori and Chad to pray for them because they said they were in danger, and were going to California. (NOTE she does not say anything about knowing they were going to Hawaii after California.)
Chad/Lori are en route to SLC airport.
Alex drives the truck to AZ?
MB is driving to AZ to be with IP?

Thu 28 Nov - Thanksgiving.

Alex goes to ZP's house?
MG is in AZ.
MG meets Alex and they talk about Lori throwing MG under the bus and MG's doubts about zombies?
Chad/Lori are in California with Chad's children.
MB is with IP in AZ.

Fri 29 Nov

8pm Alex marries ZP in Las Vegas (fly or drive? 300 miles from Gilbert.)

Sat 30 Nov

5pm MB marries IP in Las Vegas.
Alex and ZP in Las Vegas

Sun 1 Dec

Chad/Lori fly from L.A. to Kauai.
Some boxes from ID are delivered to Kauai first week Dec - who posted them?
Alex and ZP in Las vegas

Mon 2 Dec

Alex and ZP in Las vegas

Tue 3 Dec

MBP is interviewed by Rexburg police.
Alex and ZP in Las Vegas

Wed 4 Dec

Alex and ZP in Las Vegas

Thu 5 Dec

IP and NP meet with Rexburg police per discovery docs. IP records that Alex and ZP were still in Las Vegas preparing earthquakes when he met with police.
Someone tells Alex between 28 Nov and 5 Dec that MG is going to talk to police.

Fri 6 Dec

MG contacts Rexburg police.

Sat 7 Dec
Sun 8 Dec
Mon 9 Dec
Tue 10 Dec

Wed 11 Dec

Tammy's body was exhumed.

Thu 12 Dec

MG had one further conversation with Chad / Lori after 6 Dec and before Alex's death. (Nate does not ask if MG told them she had been to the police)
Alex died.

---

MG's statements, in interview order: -

48:09
NE: What was your thought when you heard all of this talk about zombies?
MG: I did question it, all of us did. I mean I sat and talked to Alex about that, a few weeks before he passed away. I'm like 'I'm not sure, I'm not too sure about this zombie thing'. He goes 'I 100% believe it'.
NE: He said he 100% believed it?
MG: Yes. So Alex really did believe.


57:29
MG: You know, after I get to Arizona and everything I was talking to Alex cos I wanted to meet with him. And he goes 'I cannot believe she threw you under the bus like that'.
NE: So Alex came to your defense?
MG: And I said 'I can't believe she did either'. I said 'I can't believe she said that'. I don't...that was not smart.

59:14
MG: After thinking and pondering and talking to a really good friend, I'm like 'there's something, there's something o...(odd? video cut) and I admitted, I said 'I'm very, very concerned about this zombie idea, I really don't believe it', and my friend said 'I don't think it's true either'. Then we talked about...we talked and talked til 5 o'clock in the morning, I mean we talked about everything, the belief structure and all these different things. We talked about all kinds of things about these doctrines, we talked about many things...

1:08:18
NE: After she dies, after they get married, you get that call 'don't answer the phone', did they call you or communicate at all with you during that week?
MG: I called once on my way to Arizona, and I was concerned for their safety because that's what they led me to believe, so I wanted to have a prayer, I was like let's just say a prayer, pull over on the side of the road, let's say a prayer and Chad was very nervous and didn't seem that settled at all, and she seemed fine.
NE: So you were still on their side?
MG: Yeah,
NE: But Chad was nervous.
ME: Yes he was.
NE: Lori was acting like it was a normal day.
MG: Yep.
NE: So you spoke the one time over the course of that week?
MG: No, I spoke to her when I decided that there's something going on, that's awfully wrong, and so a friend of mine called both of them, so I called Chad's phone and I knew she wouldn't answer cos I didn't think any of her phones were working any more, and so I just said 'I have no testimony that you've shared the things, you know, your own personal experiences that are sacred, I have no testimony of that, it doesn't fit the pattern that I see that's, you know, the pattern of things I've seen within our own church', and I had a hard time speaking honestly it was very hard conversation for me. I said very little, um and I said 'could you just please tell us where the kids are, if they're safe, why didn't', no I said I think the first question is 'why haven't you told us where the kids are?' 'Well for your safety we cannot tell you.' And that was just alarming for me cos I was like well 'what safety?' 'Why am I in danger?' I didn't feel like I was in danger. They wouldn't answer us of course and I shared, I really didn't have a testimony for things, I never got that confirmation that the things they shared with me were true or not. So we hung up with that conversation.

I went to talk to the police after that and um once I talked to them (police) I basically had a long conversation with, well kind of a long conversation with both of them about a lot of personal feelings about 'I am concerned for you, I'm concerned for your salvation, the things that you've done', I said 'this is not light this is darkness' and I asked again, like 'why did you tell the police I had the kids?', and she said 'well I told them because of for you know safety of JJ' and these different answers, um and so she did you know share that she lied about it and I asked a little bit about a few other things, can't recall everything it was kind of a long conversation and it was very, I was very uncomfortable talking to her, it was very, it was a disturbing conversation.
NE: Is that when you said that they were evil?
MG: Yeah.
NE: And how did they react to that?
MG: They didn't like that very much. Um I just continued to tell her that I was concerned for them. And I am, and I was.

1:12:38
NE: What did you think had happened to Alex?
MG: I had many different ideas. I thought, 'did he kill himself?' 'did he um...' He did realize that I was gonna tell the police, he did, that was made known to him. And so I thought maybe he really, once he heard my um doubt in all of this maybe he got, maybe his heart was pricked, maybe he realized that 'oh my goodness I've been a part of something that's not good'... [part underlined makes me believe MG wasn't the one who told him]

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

When listening to Part 3 of Nate Eaton's interview with MG again I noticed that MG speaks in plural when she describes her long discussion with Lori and Chad (in January?). Apparently MG's friend called them both and Lori answered Chad's phone. That means that Lori and Chad's friends had means to contact them despite their whereabouts not being publicly known. In that conversation MG reportedly confronted Chad and Lori and called them evil. Chad would have been aware that MG had support so they were not able to manipulate her any longer.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I think she probably took the remaining $35k of this in Jan 2019 when she went to Hawaii with Tylee. In the Oct 2016 loan document it mentions interest of 7% but does not state whether that is annual or monthly. They were still in Hawaii in 2016 weren't they?

ETA annual interest alone at 7% on $200k would be $14,000. So I wonder if that has been paid? Four years interest would be $56,000 on top of the capital owed.

The document for which this is an exhibit stated the principal and $6K interest was due, so evidently Charles was paying the interest and letting the principal ride. And yes, this was taken out just before they moved to Gilbert.

 

[Tortoise]

I rewatched all three parts of Melanie's interview with Nate and rewatched the police interview where Lori/Tylee/MG are reporting that Charles stole Lori's purse.
It's maddening that MG sat by affirming all of Lori's lies. Lori said repeatedly that Charles was cheating on her, that she caught him cheating and that is what started this episode. MG sits by knowing that it is actually Lori that is cheating with Chad. MG says to the police officer that Charles deceived her (MG), conned her by asking her to come to the house. When she got there Charles was there with two locksmiths changing locks. MG says he "proceeded to act like himself" (clearly MG thought he was possibly a zombie) and he wanted to know what's got into Lori? where is Lori? Poor Charles.

BBM - Fantastic explanation! I never was able to work out why she said that.

And the next lines -

TR: Do you have those text messages on your phone?

MG: I don’t have it on my phone. But, so when I got there I said um, ‘you’ve been using Lori’s phone to connect with me’. He was ‘sorry, I’ve deceived you’. I said ’Oh, okay, how you doing, luckily there were some other people there that were…

LV: [interrupts] So he got, he was changing the locks and probably having the door fixed where he’d kicked it in.



It looks like Lori interrupted her before she could say more. I also want to point out that she knew by this time that Lori had three phones. When I saw it the first time I didn't believe this 'no contact' story :-

O: So then he took your phone and purse and has he tried to make contact with you since?

LV: He’s tried to contact me through her… I don’t have a way to be contacted

MG: I didn’t know what her ph…, I couldn’t contact her

LV: Nobody could contact me, I just went and bought a phone so I could have a phone, a little throwaway phone so I could

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

MOO

 

[Nurse Gen]

(Green is me)

High schoolers may attend college. As a matter of fact “Many schools have no choice but to consider admitting students regardless of their ages because of the Age Discrimination Act of 1975. Any institution that receives financial assistance from the federal government, such as a public college or university, is not allowed to discriminate based on age.” How Young is Too Young to Enroll in College?

Dual enrollment (or concurrent enrollment) is available to high schoolers.

“Dual Enrollment, also sometimes referred to as Dual Credit, is a program in which a student can earn college credit by taking college-level classes in high school. Though it differs by state, Dual Credit classes will likely be offered via a partnership with your school and a local community college. These courses will be specially marked on all course enrollment forms.” “Most states allow 10-12th graders to enroll in dual enrollment courses, and they usually require that the student meet a minimum GPA requirement, usually around 3.0 or higher. Other than that, the course requirements vary.”

Though there are usually not enough classes available to dual enrollment to get a degree, most colleges will likely accept your dual credit courses as college credit, provided that you meet a certain grade standard.

“Most of the time, you will be able to take Dual Enrollment courses either at your high school or online. Sometimes, however, you may have to go to the local community college to take the course, in which case you may have to take time outside of school hours to take a dual enrollment course.

Each school will have different dual enrollment courses that they offer, but they’re usually introductory college courses that you will need to take while you’re in college anyway. Many colleges will accept dual enrollment courses as a waiver for the corresponding college introductory course.”

Dual Enrollment: Things You Should Know

and

“College Credit in High School
BYU-Idaho has opened all its courses to qualified high school students if the appropriate prerequisite requirements are met. You can choose to enroll in and attend online courses or, if your circumstances allow, you can attend classes on campus. You can earn “general education” credits before you leave high school. This could put you well on your way to completing an Associate Degree or Bachelor’s Degree and help you graduate from college in less time and with huge savings!”

Concurrent Enrollment

So, long story short, she could have gone to BYU as early as 16. If she was dual enrolled she would obviously not need a GED (she could not be a graduate and dual enroll). (Most colleges require a ACT/SAT test and/or a GPA of at least 3.0 or higher.) My daughter-in-law dual enrolled in Florida. As long as she was still in school (she was home schooled), she attended college with free tuition. As I understand it, not all colleges will give free tuition in this case but with most you will save a lot of money at least.

Interesting information but Tylee was not enrolled in High School and in the police body cam video from Gilbert PD Tylee says she has a GED and is working.

Then there's this from BYUI
"Applicants who are 17 and 18 years old are required to have a high school diploma or equivalent to be admitted to PathwayConnect, while those ages 19+ are not required to have these credentials. Applicants younger than age 17 are not eligible for admission, except in certain international locations"

Enrollment

but did she really even have a GED. Would have taken some serious pre-planning. Where was she in the Fall of 2018? She was in HI for perhaps 2 months in early 2019. i dunno.... i just don't see it tying all together.
All About the GED: Arizona


Arizona Eligibility Requirements
To be eligible for the GED tests in Arizona, individuals must be 18 years of age or older and not enrolled in high school. Test takers who are 16 or 17, may also take GED exam, but they must create a profile before scheduling the test and provide an official withdrawal form from their high school and a notarized. The test taker must present these documents to an authorized testing location or the Arizona Adult Education State Office.

Yes, entirely possible that she didn't get a GED but it doesn't look like she met the requirements for matriculation at BYU, nor that she was enrolled in High School and eligible for the dual enrollment. IMO just another one of Lori's lies that Tylee was going to BYUI

 

[Nurse Gen]

Dec 2016 – Tylee is listed on the Honor Role as a Freshman at Kapaa High School in Hawaii. http://kapaahighschool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/PCNC-Connection-Dec-2016.pdf
8 Feb 2017 to 23 Mar 2017 - Tylee is enrolled at Desert Ridge High School in Gilbert, AZ (AZ Family News).
28 March 2017 – Tylee is enrolled in Perry High School in Chandler, AZ and finishes the school year there (AZ Family News).
24 Sept 2017 – Tylee’s 15th birthday. Lori posts a “happy birthday” message to her on Instagram that mentions Perry High School in Gilbert, AZ. @lolo4kauai on Instagram: “My Beautiful daughter turned 15 today ! Happy birthday Ty Ty !! I love you so much!!! JJ says "hi Tylee Ryan Perry High School " ”

Yes, all of this was 2 years or more before the move to Rexburg

 

[Nurse Gen]

BBM - Fantastic explanation! I never was able to work out why she said that.

And the next lines -

TR: Do you have those text messages on your phone?

MG: I don’t have it on my phone. But, so when I got there I said um, ‘you’ve been using Lori’s phone to connect with me’. He was ‘sorry, I’ve deceived you’. I said ’Oh, okay, how you doing, luckily there were some other people there that were…

LV: [interrupts] So he got, he was changing the locks and probably having the door fixed where he’d kicked it in.



It looks like Lori interrupted her before she could say more. I also want to point out that she knew by this time that Lori had three phones. When I saw it the first time I didn't believe this 'no contact' story :-

O: So then he took your phone and purse and has he tried to make contact with you since?

LV: He’s tried to contact me through her… I don’t have a way to be contacted

MG: I didn’t know what her ph…, I couldn’t contact her

LV: Nobody could contact me, I just went and bought a phone so I could have a phone, a little throwaway phone so I could

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

MOO

So many inconsistencies here, the more we analyze the recent interviews with MG and compare with what we have heard/seen from her prior to the interviews, the less credible she seems IMO

 

[Nurse Gen]

Not that I think it matters one bit to this case....but, Pathway is administered by BYUI.

Yes I know that Pathway is administered by BYUI, that is the link I included

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Not that I think it matters one bit to this case....but, Pathway is administered by BYUI. But this program isn't an in-residence program -- it's totally online. And so if she was attending school on campus in Rexburg, she wasn't in the Pathway program. But then I don't believe she was attending BYU-Here There or Anywhere. "She's attending BYUI" is last year's "She's hiding in a bunker."



I agree that this is probably family legend. If she didn't finish high school, it doesn't diminish Tylee at all. She's only 17 now, and she had, when she disappeared (and still does now have) time to complete high school and puh-lenty of time to go on to college (and who doesn't hope that's exactly what happens!) I just think these notions about her education are something that may have been planned but fell by the wayside when Lori left the building. I think there's a number of stories like this in this case where legend was developed and is being passed as truth.

Tylee was probably depressed in Hawaii, since we have heard she just slept all the time. She probably didn't want to go to school, and as mentioned by others, Tylee was really just Lori's extra babysitter that set her free to her daily whims. I strongly feel the GED is just a myth.

 

[Tortoise]

MG: I didn’t know what her ph…, I couldn’t contact her

This, in my opinion, is a lie whichever way we look at it. Even if she didn't know Lori's other phone numbers, she knew Chad did.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Not that I think it matters one bit to this case....but, Pathway is administered by BYUI. But this program isn't an in-residence program -- it's totally online. And so if she was attending school on campus in Rexburg, she wasn't in the Pathway program. But then I don't believe she was attending BYU-Here There or Anywhere. "She's attending BYUI" is last year's "She's hiding in a bunker."



I agree that this is probably family legend. If she didn't finish high school, it doesn't diminish Tylee at all. She's only 17 now, and she had, when she disappeared (and still does now have) time to complete high school and puh-lenty of time to go on to college (and who doesn't hope that's exactly what happens!) I just think these notions about her education are something that may have been planned but fell by the wayside when Lori left the building. I think there's a number of stories like this in this case where legend was developed and is being passed as truth.

Tylee was probably depressed in Hawaii, since we have heard she just slept all the time. She probably didn't want to go to school, and as mentioned by others, Tylee was really just Lori's extra babysitter that set her free to her daily whims. I strongly feel the GED is just a myth.

In listening (and reading transcript @ 5:14 & 5:52 specifically) Part 3 of the MG interview with EIN, she mentions that they all were in the same ward and shared the same bishop, and this bishop was unaware of the background. Does anyone know if this is/was the same bishop as mentioned in Justin Lum report here??:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix on Facebook Watch


Part 3 of MG interview

In listening (and reading transcript @ 5:14 & 5:52 specifically) Part 3 of the MG interview with EIN, she mentions that they all were in the same ward and shared the same bishop, and this bishop was unaware of the background. Does anyone know if this is/was the same bishop as mentioned in Justin Lum report here??:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix on Facebook Watch


Part 3 of MG interview

There are a handful of people who we are not permitted to discuss, but others out there in the "lorichad" cloud do reference to bishop and Melanie's fellow podcasters a lot--- who were obviously "not allowed to be discussed" by Nate. That was very clear... but these folks remain as very questionable nearly-insiders to me.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

dbm...grrr... don't know how my keys keep doubling my posts...

 

[Tortoise]

LV: She’s going to apply to the academy, she’s now a High School graduate, right, at 16.

Officer: Yeah?

LV: She got her GED so she’s…

TR: Yeah.

LV: …moving on with life.

Officer: You really want to be a police officer?

TR: Maybe. You never know.

BODY CAM: Gilbert PD asks Lori Vallow to go to CBI

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

In listening (and reading transcript @ 5:14 & 5:52 specifically) Part 3 of the MG interview with EIN, she mentions that they all were in the same ward and shared the same bishop, and this bishop was unaware of the background. Does anyone know if this is/was the same bishop as mentioned in Justin Lum report here??:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix on Facebook Watch


Part 3 of MG interview

When I first watched it, I assumed she meant "we all" to be her, Zulema, and Alex. I have to think she would know better to say than GB did not know "any of the background" since it has been widely reported it was him that was told of Lori's delusions and about all the threats towards CV and about people being called zombies. I am sure he was totally aware of the whole situation by the time the kids were missing (my opinion). Plus even if they had all lived in Gilbert at one time CV and Lori in early 2019, MG and Zulema currently), there must be 100 or so wards in Gilbert, each with their own Bishop.
Having said that, there are two things that made me go hmm and wonder if you could be onto something:
1) If Melanie wasn't in the same ward, how did Lori meet her in the hallway after MG spoke (I reconciled this earlier due to the convoluted relationships/connections many of the pod people have).
2) She said in the interview with Nate at about 6:00 (part 3) she was grateful it was him--what did that mean? See paranthetical remarks of point 1.
Moo.