Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #43

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WHY is LE coming out with a different photo for us. Are there more? Why now? What does LE want us to see. The photo is just not that different...except to analysts to hypothesize.

I know they are adamant about this being the last sighting....but what else, are they trying to show us.
I would like to know this too! Can anyone point me to another case where they release a photo after remains have been found, but are not asking for the public's help anymore?
 
Because they gave her something to cause it. Just like AC.
Here is the thing....JJ was not burned. If the same toxin/poison was used on him then LE will know what to look for in any of the other deaths.

MOO

Something is not making sense to me. Alex took JJ TO HIS APARTMENT AND THEN BROUGHT HIM BACK ASLEEP. THEN, he comes and takes him again in the middle of the night? I'm struggling with whether this death was accidental overdose. i.e., Alex gives him too much risperidone to settle him down brings him back asleep, Lori goes to check on him at some point and finds him dead and calls Alex back to come get him. Melanie already knew that Alex had taken him and brought him back. Then they have to explain in the morning that he's gone again? If intentional, why did Alex bring him back just to kill him later? Or did Lori do it after Alex brought JJ back and Alex came back to clean up? Or, maybe Alex couldn't do it? Maybe Alex really is just the clean-up man and Lori did it to each of the children. I have to go back and look at the affidavit timeline for Tylee and Alex's whereabouts. Was it similar? He came back and cleaned up? I'd like to know where Chad was the night JJ went missing in the middle of the night. LE has not said what Melanie knows about that. I'm sure LE has an electronic trail for that too that we don't know about yet. I'm thinking Chad and Lori took care of the kids, not Alex. He just cleaned up.
 
After the discovery of the remains of her cousins, Melani Pawlowski makes the following points in a Facebook post that she shared with the East Idaho News ('My cousins are beautiful souls.' Melani Pawlowski releases message expressing love for JJ and Tylee | East Idaho News):
  1. Tylee--who we now know was killed, dismembered, and burned--would “be giving the biggest eye roll” at the dramatic way the media is reporting her story.
  2. Tylee was “the sassiest thing ever” and so would likely chastise anyone who is using what happened to her as a reason to “blame” or “express hate” toward anyone.
  3. If Tylee could just “go on live television and tell her story,” she could “clear up all the confusion.”
  4. By continuing to “criticize and twist” things and to capitalize on “this tragic event,” people are distracting from the lives of “these two precious babes.”
  5. When people express kindness and not criticism, JJ and Tylee will probably “smile down from heaven.”
Melani’s statement is remarkable not only for what she says but also for what she doesn’t say: that she was wrong. If you knew nothing of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, you could read a statement like Melani’s and assume this was a sad but ordinary missing person’s case. You would likely believe that some very bad people had abducted two children and that, after months of uncertainty, the discovery of bodies had revealed the crushing truth and devastated the victims’ family. What you probably would not believe was that the person making the statement had defended the silence and obstruction of one of the probable killers and cast herself as a victim.

What is missing in Melani’s statement and the earlier statement of several of the Cox family is any admission of personal responsibility. There is no suggestion they misjudged Lori or that this misjudgment almost certainly delayed the discovery of the bodies and prolonged the tortuous ordeal of the people who truly loved Tylee and JJ. There is no hint of an apology to the people they criticized for forcing Lori into what they continued to insist was simply an acrimonious custody battle. And, worst of all, there is no recognition that, when it mattered, they sided with the children’s likely killers over the children themselves.

One of the big questions in this case relates to the role that religion, specifically Mormonism, has played. Here I will offer up a caveat that I’ve offered up before. Mormonism didn’t make Chad and Lori do these terrible things, and you could go to traditional Mormon services for a hundred years without hearing anything as bizarre and demented as what Chad and Lori reportedly believed. But, even so, it is my view that you cannot understand this case without understanding Mormonism. Simply put, I believe Mormon ideas led Chad and Lori to believe they were special while Mormon practice left them feeling like they’d been overlooked.

Melani was raised in the same religious environment. But her sin is much more ordinary. She simply does something we all do from time to time: she blames others for her own failings. But here again Mormonism is relevant. It provides both a model for and justification of denying responsibility.

Earlier this month, when the Black Lives Matter protests were spreading, Mormon Church president Russell M. Nelson said “We abhor the reality that some would deny others respect and the most basic of freedoms because of the color of his or her skin.” He also pleaded with everyone to foster “mutual respect” and “an outpouring of love for all of God’s children.” But here’s what President Nelson didn’t do. He didn’t acknowledge, let alone apologize for, the Church’s role in reinforcing racial prejudices by withholding full membership privileges from black people for decades.

President Nelson’s sentiments are nice in the same way that Melani’s plea for withholding “negative feelings” and just exhibiting “love” is nice. But that’s all they are. Melani’s sentimental outpouring of love for Tylee and JJ won’t bring them back. And worse, it risks co-opting their tragic and beautifully specific stories into our inane and ever-expanding culture war. For shame.

MOO
 
WHY is LE coming out with a different photo for us. Are there more? Why now? What does LE want us to see. The photo is just not that different...except to analysts to hypothesize.

I know they are adamant about this being the last sighting....but what else, are they trying to show us.

Could it be that her clothing in that photo was found buried ? A portion not burned or remnants of those and not pajamas or other clothes?

o_O

Or a clearer picture for Lori to put on her jail wall of who she has killed, a la Chris Watts?
 
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Paras 32 and 33 need to be read together and to me this indicates that the remains were intact. See para 34 which states " the remaining dirt around this object was methodically removed". BBM

Para 42 is separate in that it refers to when Chad made a run for it. Para 42 states that when the FBI made the second cut in the plastic and identified the crown of the head covered in hair, Chad made a run for it.
I think JJ's body was intact, NO dismemberment.
If anything, Tylee's body was more than likely viewed as "Dismembered" due to being burned. JMO
 
After the discovery of the remains of her cousins, Melani Pawlowski makes the following points in a Facebook post that she shared with the East Idaho News ('My cousins are beautiful souls.' Melani Pawlowski releases message expressing love for JJ and Tylee | East Idaho News):
  1. Tylee--who we now know was killed, dismembered, and burned--would “be giving the biggest eye roll” at the dramatic way the media is reporting her story.
  2. Tylee was “the sassiest thing ever” and so would likely chastise anyone who is using what happened to her as a reason to “blame” or “express hate” toward anyone.
  3. If Tylee could just “go on live television and tell her story,” she could “clear up all the confusion.”
  4. By continuing to “criticize and twist” things and to capitalize on “this tragic event,” people are distracting from the lives of “these two precious babes.”
  5. When people express kindness and not criticism, JJ and Tylee will probably “smile down from heaven.”
Melani’s statement is remarkable not only for what she says but also for what she doesn’t say: that she was wrong. If you knew nothing of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, you could read a statement like Melani’s and assume this was a sad but ordinary missing person’s case. You would likely believe that some very bad people had abducted two children and that, after months of uncertainty, the discovery of bodies had revealed the crushing truth and devastated the victims’ family. What you probably would not believe was that the person making the statement had defended the silence and obstruction of one of the probable killers and cast herself as a victim.

What is missing in Melani’s statement and the earlier statement of several of the Cox family is any admission of personal responsibility. There is no suggestion they misjudged Lori or that this misjudgment almost certainly delayed the discovery of the bodies and prolonged the tortuous ordeal of the people who truly loved Tylee and JJ. There is no hint of an apology to the people they criticized for forcing Lori into what they continued to insist was simply an acrimonious custody battle. And, worst of all, there is no recognition that, when it mattered, they sided with the children’s likely killers over the children themselves.

One of the big questions in this case relates to the role that religion, specifically Mormonism, has played. Here I will offer up a caveat that I’ve offered up before. Mormonism didn’t make Chad and Lori do these terrible things, and you could go to traditional Mormon services for a hundred years without hearing anything as bizarre and demented as what Chad and Lori reportedly believed. But, even so, it is my view that you cannot understand this case without understanding Mormonism. Simply put, I believe Mormon ideas led Chad and Lori to believe they were special while Mormon practice left them feeling like they’d been overlooked.

Melani was raised in the same religious environment. But her sin is much more ordinary. She simply does something we all do from time to time: she blames others for her own failings. But here again Mormonism is relevant. It provides both a model for and justification of denying responsibility.

Earlier this month, when the Black Lives Matter protests were spreading, Mormon Church president Russell M. Nelson said “We abhor the reality that some would deny others respect and the most basic of freedoms because of the color of his or her skin.” He also pleaded with everyone to foster “mutual respect” and “an outpouring of love for all of God’s children.” But here’s what President Nelson didn’t do. He didn’t acknowledge, let alone apologize for, the Church’s role in reinforcing racial prejudices by withholding full membership privileges from black people for decades.

President Nelson’s sentiments are nice in the same way that Melani’s plea for withholding “negative feelings” and just exhibiting “love” is nice. But that’s all they are. Melani’s sentimental outpouring of love for Tylee and JJ won’t bring them back. And worse, it risks co-opting their tragic and beautifully specific stories into our inane and ever-expanding culture war. For shame.

MOO
JMO but all MBP does is spew out BS to make herself look good, sweet and innocent.
I think she is just the opposite of all the above.
 
Because they gave her something to cause it. Just like AC.
Here is the thing....JJ was not burned. If the same toxin/poison was used on him then LE will know what to look for in any of the other deaths.

MOO

Something is not making sense to me. Alex took JJ TO HIS APARTMENT AND THEN BROUGHT HIM BACK ASLEEP. THEN, he comes and takes him again in the middle of the night? I'm struggling with whether this death was accidental overdose. i.e., Alex gives him too much risperidone to settle him down brings him back asleep, Lori goes to check on him at some point and finds him dead and calls Alex back to come get him. Melanie already knew that Alex had taken him and brought him back. Then they have to explain in the morning that he's gone again? If intentional, why did Alex bring him back just to kill him later? Or did Lori do it after Alex brought JJ back and Alex came back to clean up? Or, maybe Alex couldn't do it? Maybe Alex really is just the clean-up man and Lori did it to each of the children. I have to go back and look at the affidavit timeline for Tylee and Alex's whereabouts. Was it similar? He came back and cleaned up? I'd like to know where Chad was the night JJ went missing in the middle of the night. LE has not said what Melanie knows about that. I'm sure LE has an electronic trail for that too that we don't know about yet. I'm thinking Chad and Lori took care of the kids, not Alex. He just cleaned up.
It's not my thing to reply to my own posts, but can you imagine either selecting a jury or being a jury member for this case? Every person is gonna have layers of biases and assumptions that have nothing to do with the individuals. Can you imagine the jury room?
I'm thinking trying to get the death penalty would be a very bad idea. All the jury members' positions are going to be intractable. No consensus at all. Even a non-hung jury might be difficult?

Keep in mind that we don't even know a fraction of the evidence LE has.
 
“She just seemed off. There were a lot of strange goings-on at their home to the point that a judge ordered cameras to be put in their home to protect the children,” Cheryl recalls.

Nothing suspicious or criminal was ever found on the video footage, Cheryl said, but she said something wasn’t right with Lori. During child custody hearings, Cheryl says Lori seemed to enjoy being in court and “all the drama” surrounding it.


From your link- wonder what the strange goings on were that necessitated cameras in the house? :eek:

I don't think she'll enjoy being in court this time around ...
 
I think this is what I was trying to get to in an earlier post. From what I can see, the desertion charges against Lori cannot be proven now that the children have been found deceased, so will these be dismissed or not? I recognise though, that the contempt charge will remain.
You must keep in mind that the contempt and desertion charges against Lori were always just a means to hold her and were a masterful maneuver by the prosecution. For now, there is no need to prove the elements of desertion -- they merely need to provide sufficient basis to proceed to trial. The court may only act based on the evidence before it and, right now, the discovery of the kids bodies and the arrest of Chad Daybell are not in evidence. It would be necessary for the defense to attempt to use that information as a defense to the charges and that's not going to happen at a preliminary hearing. It is possible more charges will be brought but I would expect the prosecution to make a rather perfunctory presentation to the effect that Lori has been completely uncooperative, has lied about numerous facts, and has made no effort to provide information regarding the kids. The contempt charge is open and shut, of course. For the desertion charge, right now there is plenty of evidence to support it and no proof of when the kids were killed, by whom or how. She isn't going to be able to use the presumption of their deaths as a defense at this stage, so the prosecution is essentially able to lay out a prima facie case based on the evidence that is before the court. Hope this makes sense. The preliminary hearing will permit the court to bind her over for trial and will buy all the time the prosecution needs, should they wish to wait to file more charges.
 
After the discovery of the remains of her cousins, Melani Pawlowski makes the following points in a Facebook post that she shared with the East Idaho News ('My cousins are beautiful souls.' Melani Pawlowski releases message expressing love for JJ and Tylee | East Idaho News):
  1. Tylee--who we now know was killed, dismembered, and burned--would “be giving the biggest eye roll” at the dramatic way the media is reporting her story.
  2. Tylee was “the sassiest thing ever” and so would likely chastise anyone who is using what happened to her as a reason to “blame” or “express hate” toward anyone.
  3. If Tylee could just “go on live television and tell her story,” she could “clear up all the confusion.”
  4. By continuing to “criticize and twist” things and to capitalize on “this tragic event,” people are distracting from the lives of “these two precious babes.”
  5. When people express kindness and not criticism, JJ and Tylee will probably “smile down from heaven.”
Melani’s statement is remarkable not only for what she says but also for what she doesn’t say: that she was wrong. If you knew nothing of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, you could read a statement like Melani’s and assume this was a sad but ordinary missing person’s case. You would likely believe that some very bad people had abducted two children and that, after months of uncertainty, the discovery of bodies had revealed the crushing truth and devastated the victims’ family. What you probably would not believe was that the person making the statement had defended the silence and obstruction of one of the probable killers and cast herself as a victim.

What is missing in Melani’s statement and the earlier statement of several of the Cox family is any admission of personal responsibility. There is no suggestion they misjudged Lori or that this misjudgment almost certainly delayed the discovery of the bodies and prolonged the tortuous ordeal of the people who truly loved Tylee and JJ. There is no hint of an apology to the people they criticized for forcing Lori into what they continued to insist was simply an acrimonious custody battle. And, worst of all, there is no recognition that, when it mattered, they sided with the children’s likely killers over the children themselves.

One of the big questions in this case relates to the role that religion, specifically Mormonism, has played. Here I will offer up a caveat that I’ve offered up before. Mormonism didn’t make Chad and Lori do these terrible things, and you could go to traditional Mormon services for a hundred years without hearing anything as bizarre and demented as what Chad and Lori reportedly believed. But, even so, it is my view that you cannot understand this case without understanding Mormonism. Simply put, I believe Mormon ideas led Chad and Lori to believe they were special while Mormon practice left them feeling like they’d been overlooked.

Melani was raised in the same religious environment. But her sin is much more ordinary. She simply does something we all do from time to time: she blames others for her own failings. But here again Mormonism is relevant. It provides both a model for and justification of denying responsibility.

Earlier this month, when the Black Lives Matter protests were spreading, Mormon Church president Russell M. Nelson said “We abhor the reality that some would deny others respect and the most basic of freedoms because of the color of his or her skin.” He also pleaded with everyone to foster “mutual respect” and “an outpouring of love for all of God’s children.” But here’s what President Nelson didn’t do. He didn’t acknowledge, let alone apologize for, the Church’s role in reinforcing racial prejudices by withholding full membership privileges from black people for decades.

President Nelson’s sentiments are nice in the same way that Melani’s plea for withholding “negative feelings” and just exhibiting “love” is nice. But that’s all they are. Melani’s sentimental outpouring of love for Tylee and JJ won’t bring them back. And worse, it risks co-opting their tragic and beautifully specific stories into our inane and ever-expanding culture war. For shame.

MOO
Thank You! Post of the year!
 
Hello everyone and thank you for the kind welcomes! You are the best!

Just need a lawyer (or WS wizard) to help explain something. The two desertion charges that LV is currently facing ... are they sustainable? We don't have those in Canada in our Criminal Code; ours is "failing to provide the necessaries of life" (or criminal negligence). In Canada, if someone was criminally negligent, or failed to provide the necessaries of life (i.e. allowed AC to take JJ from the purported safety of the home) and JJ died as a result, our courts might view this as a heinous abandonment of the child and convict them. The fact he died as a result would be a HUGE aggravating factor. We could also lay a separate indictment for murder or accessory to murder if there was enough evidence - but we may not lay that murder or accessory charge until we had completed the investigation. So ... in Canada, the "desertion" (necessaries of life/criminal negligence) would still carry a significant penalty and would probably be continued, even if the child died one day after the commencement of the charge. Is this true there? Can LV still be convicted of desertion of JJ even though the child was dead on the day of or the day after the charge commenced?

READ: The documents charging Lori Vallow Daybell | East Idaho News
I commented on another question regarding this. The desertion charges were always a tool to hold her and to apply pressure on her. The charges are certainly sustainable at this point because there is no evidence establishing support for the kids. The evidence of discovery of the bodies and all the cell phone pings certainly appear to prove the kids were murdered shortly after the Yellowstone trip, but that is not the same thing as evidence. If the prosecution wished, they could proceed against her on desertion and it would be up to the defense to raise the deaths of the children as a defense. While that could occur, in theory, it won't ever happen. The charges are sufficiently proved based on the evidence before the court so that a preliminary hearing will be held and she will be bound over for trial. Well before trial she will be charged with conspiracy and/or murder and other charges so the desertion charges will become unimportant. The law is a stickler for procedure and evidence. Right now the prosecution has more than enough evidence to show the kids were unaccounted for and certainly not in Lori's charge or subject to her support, comfort and maintenance. As such, there is enough evidence to support the desertion (and the contempt) charges. However, those charges are only pending as a means to support the incarceration and, if the state wishes, they can stand on the evidence now of record and wait to file more charges.
 
thanks for posting this.....I still want to say.....but? Something is off here
Thanks to whoever posted it.
I just saw it on Nate's EIN page and was coming her to post it.
Pretty much like MBP==she spews a whole bunch of nothing.
Quotes from her interview with CBS 48 hours
"“I don’t know all of her reasons for doing what she’s doing,” Shiflet said. “But I know she has … has the reasons.”
" I've heard things said about Lori … that none of them are true. … This mob mentality of … Lori … just … hung in a public square, basically is what it feels like.
Summer Shiflet "I don't know all of her reasons for doing what she's doing. … But I know she has … has the reasons.
"But … we are very confident that Lori would never harm her children"
Summer Shiflet: She's (LORI) is the best person I know … She's just the kindest, loving person that there is."

OK-- I will go with the fact she is her sister and trying to portray LVD as sweet, kind, etc as she probably was to SUMMER and that is how she sees her sister. I get that.
But she did NOT know LVD--she only met CD Once, didn't know they got married, has never been to any of LVD weddings, etc, etc. --that sounds to me like they really were NOT close siblings.
However, to accuse the public of lying (saying none of what the public said is true) and "MOB Menality and being Hung ina public square, well, YEAH.. and she should be.
AND then to say-- LVD has her reasons (oh, yes she did) for doing what she's doing----she had her reasons, but we are confident she would not hurt her children.
Then please explain how they were found buried in your brother in law's backyard ???
JMO
Sorry for the rant but I am just getting so PO'd at these people who are now backtracking and I really am trying to be empathetic but having a hard time right now.
 
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Thanks to whoever posted it.
I just saw it on Nate's EIN page and was coming her to post it.
Pretty much like MBP==she spews a whole bunch of nothing.
Quotes from her interview with CBS 48 hours
"“I don’t know all of her reasons for doing what she’s doing,” Shiflet said. “But I know she has … has the reasons.”
" I've heard things said about Lori … that none of them are true. … This mob mentality of … Lori … just … hung in a public square, basically is what it feels like.
Summer Shiflet "I don't know all of her reasons for doing what she's doing. … But I know she has … has the reasons.
"But … we are very confident that Lori would never harm her children"
Summer Shiflet: She's (LORI) is the best person I know … She's just the kindest, loving person that there is."

OK-- I will go with the fact she is her sister and trying to portray LVD as sweet, kind, etc as she probably was to SUMMER and that is how she sees her sister. I get that.
But she did NOT know LVD--she only met CD Once, didn't know they got married, has never been to any of LVD weddings, etc, etc. --that sounds to me like they really were NOT close siblings.
However, to accuse the public of lying (saying none of what the public said is true) and "MOB Menality and being Hung ina public square, well, YEAH.. and she should be.
AND then to say-- LVD has her reasons (oh, yes she did) for doing what she's doing----she had her reasons, but we are confident she would not hurt her children.
The please explain how they were found buried in your brother in law's backyard ???
JMO
Sorry for the rant but I am just getting so PO'd at these people who are now backtracking and I really am trying to be empathetic but having a hard time right now.
Nothing less than a complete apology is in order from these people.
No love, just damage control.
 
Thanks to whoever posted it.
I just saw it on Nate's EIN page and was coming her to post it.
Pretty much like MBP==she spews a whole bunch of nothing.
Quotes from her interview with CBS 48 hours
"“I don’t know all of her reasons for doing what she’s doing,” Shiflet said. “But I know she has … has the reasons.”
" I've heard things said about Lori … that none of them are true. … This mob mentality of … Lori … just … hung in a public square, basically is what it feels like.
Summer Shiflet "I don't know all of her reasons for doing what she's doing. … But I know she has … has the reasons.
"But … we are very confident that Lori would never harm her children"
Summer Shiflet: She's (LORI) is the best person I know … She's just the kindest, loving person that there is."

OK-- I will go with the fact she is her sister and trying to portray LVD as sweet, kind, etc as she probably was to SUMMER and that is how she sees her sister. I get that.
But she did NOT know LVD--she only met CD Once, didn't know they got married, has never been to any of LVD weddings, etc, etc. --that sounds to me like they really were NOT close siblings.
However, to accuse the public of lying (saying none of what the public said is true) and "MOB Menality and being Hung ina public square, well, YEAH.. and she should be.
AND then to say-- LVD has her reasons (oh, yes she did) for doing what she's doing----she had her reasons, but we are confident she would not hurt her children.
The please explain how they were found buried in your brother in law's backyard ???
JMO
Sorry for the rant but I am just getting so PO'd at these people who are now backtracking and I really am trying to be empathetic but having a hard time right now.

I share your disgust and unhappiness with this family. However, I'm also mindful how powerful the psychological forces are that drive people to defend those they love even to the point of denial. The typical "I know him/her and she could never hurt her kids" is so common as a statement of support/denial in murder cases to the point that we must acknowledge it for what it is -- an attempt to shield the speaker and his/her family from opprobrium, shame and guilt. This is a national/worldwide story and these families are going to be tarred with this shame and loathing for decades. I tell myself not to get worked up because the consequences for these families will be horrible beyond measure and their pain and discomfort is only beginning.
 
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