Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #9

[BigAl16]

Related to the deaths or not, I suspect Lori’s “custody battle” concern is real. True, no custody challenge has been filed in court but I’m convinced JJ’s “grandparents” expressed interest in JJ coming to live with them after Charles died. Grandparents typically don’t have rights but in this case the child was adopted in-family and the natural mother is still alive/available to be around JJ.

Plus in this case the boy’s adopted father was suspiciously gunned down by his adoptive mother’s brother. An adoptive mother that has talked about driving a car over a cliff with her kids in addition to lots of other scary nonsense.

I don’t know how this particular custody battle would play out but neither does Lori. There’s enough doubt (and dirt) I could see her wanting to avoid finding out.

Clearly she doesn’t care about having JJ around her physically, but I do think she cares a lot about having access to JJ’s assets.

I can see Lori begging Chad to marry her ASAP to show a court she would provide a two-parent home headed by an upstanding member of the community. That would be an almost sane reason for Chad to agree to such a quick marriage (though telling his kids Lori has no minor children would make even less sense then).

In the unlikely event Lori was at all inclined to show up in Idaho w/the kids on Thursday, hearing JJ’s grandparents will be there almost ensures IMO if alive the kids will be kept hidden.

Friday I bet we’ll see a bench warrant for Lori and perhaps Feds slap her with SS fraud charges. But we won’t see the kids.

MOO

An interesting theory. I don't remember who Chad supposedly told that Lori had no minor children. Are you sure it was one of his kids? I could see whatever was reported there being an error or misunderstanding on the part of whoever he was talking to very easily.

 

[utahobserver]

That is an excellent observation. It often takes a long time to get search warrants (too long to those of us waiting and observing). The earliest we know of LE asking around about the children is a week before the welfare check when LE spoke to Lori's Rexburg neighbor asking questions about her and the children. But that doesn't mean LE wasn't investigating before that and working on warrants. There's usually a lot of behind the scenes moves LE is making that we don't find out happened until a case comes to court. I don't think Kay and Larry waited to report JJ missing and request a welfare check. But they may have waited until police issued a statement Dec 20th to go public with their own press statements. That's actually very wise and classy of them to wait for LE to investigate first. MOO.

I remember reading that the Woodcocks have trust and respect for the investigators.

 

[tresir2012]

I am wondering if the autopsy results are in so that is the felony they have up their sleeve if they do not come back in response to the court order to produce the children. They have both been named on that I believe, not just Lori. Sort of a double whammy to ensure they can extradite them.

 

[BigAl16]

Duplicate post

 

[janewall]

In watching the video the neighbor says they arrived sometime mid December in that time frame. So maybe they hopped on a plane right after December 12th? MOO

It certainly wouldn't be impossible for them, or at least Lori, to have made a couple of different trips to (and from) Hawaii in early December if there was a bit of business that needed tying up on the mainland. MOO.

 

[Colorado303]

dbm

 

[OGDiva]

I wonder if they are there to arrest L

So you think LE will remain in Hawaii and if they don't appear with the children on Thursday in Rexburg, those officers will have power to arrest and transport them to Idaho ? That does make sense why they would be there in such force.[/QUOT

You probably don't get a person from the prosecuting attorney's office and 3 members of LE for less than a felony very often, even if they're looking for a trip to Hawaii in winter.

Possibly they are poised to charge with a felony *if* they don't voluntarily show up or the results from the autopsy come in (or they admit that they've come in).

MOO

Maybe they know Chad and Lori will not come back on their own and they are there to take Lori in for her kids and Chad may get hit with charges regarding Tammy's death? Everyone is right, to have the Prosecutor and LE there, there has to be more going on than we are aware of. Maybe the reports of the autopsy are correct and leaked early. There may be a big surprise in store for those two come Thursday.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

That is an excellent observation. It often takes a long time to get search warrants (too long to those of us waiting and observing). The earliest we know of LE asking around about the children is a week before the welfare check when LE spoke to Lori's Rexburg neighbor asking questions about her and the children. But that doesn't mean LE wasn't investigating before that and working on warrants. There's usually a lot of behind the scenes moves LE is making that we don't find out happened until a case comes to court. I don't think Kay and Larry waited to report JJ missing and request a welfare check. But they may have waited until police issued a statement Dec 20th to go public with their own press statements. That's actually very wise and classy of them to wait for LE to investigate first. MOO.

I think the Woodcocks' welfare inquiry into JJ may have started with Child Protective Services (or whatever it's called in Idaho--at the same agency where Lori is being ordered to produce the children), and then moved to police once Tammy's death investigation opened and the overlapping pieces came together for LE. I think LE questioned neighbors, learned Chad & Lori's movements, and maybe that Chad had the Thanksgiving vacation planned and might be there on that day packing. Similar to how they knew Lori and Chad were on the move this Sunday.

The pack-up of the units wasn't spurred by the police check, I don't think. It just coincided with it, because they were traveling for Thanksgiving and planning to move to Hawaii permanently. Police may have even *known* they would arrive to three empty units. Again, getting warrants for three separate locations takes time. The ping may have played a role--given them cause in that moment, but the more I've thought about this, the more I've realized that it's been a much longer process.

The flaw in my explanation is the length of time to get Tammy's autopsy, so maybe I'm wrong on all this.

Whatever the case, I'm hoping the kids are safe and alive. I think they've been with Lori's family this whole time. You don't see MB or any of Lori's siblings, or her parents freaking out about missing their missing grandkids/niece & nephew/cousins.

Meanwhile, Lori is missing all of her own baby grandchild's life. She's been moving around like crazy through all of 2019 until now.

MOO MOO MOO

 

[utahobserver]

It interests me that there have been multiple members here who have known Chad in the recent and distant past and have spoken to what his character has been. Early on there were some folks who claimed to have known Lori as well as the Woodcocks and CR and have spoken to her character and changes in her demeanor that have occurred over the last few years. But no one that I can find, except for that woman who posted the weird Looney Tunes video, has spoken at all about Alex. Had he no friends other than Lori? His new bride has said nothing, nor his family. There is nothing positive nor negative (other than his violent tendencies toward his sister’s husbands) to learn about him. Was he a member of AVOW? Does anyone here really know anything about him other than what has been learned from police reports and our sleuthing?

 

[CSIDreamer]

How often would those folks have good reason to travel to Kauai for work? I would certainly insist on needing to be there in person if I could!

Me, too. I wonder if they're hiring? I could run errands.

 

[loganlocal]

Meanwhile, Lori is missing all of her own baby grandchild's life. She's been moving around like crazy through all of 2019 until now.

IMOO, I don't imagine Lori as the type willing to admit to/take to being a grandmother...

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

Nancy Grace is on the case.....

Oh snap!! Lori is a goner, Nancy doesn’t mess around with anyone’s BS!!

 

[Colorado303]

An interesting theory. I don't remember who Chad supposedly told that Lori had no minor children. Are you sure it was one of his kids? I could see whatever was reported there being an error or misunderstanding on the part of whoever he was talking to very easily.

No. Now that you mention it, I’m not at all sure it was his kids that he told. I edited the post and removed that line.

 

[janewall]

Even if Lori had nothing to do with AC's death, how could she be off enjoying Hawaii when her favorite bro just passed away?!?!?

Ice water in her veins?

Pathological detachment?

If as so many have speculated she truly is a narcissist, his value to her is only what he can do for her. If he has become less useful through his own screw-ups, or possibly showing a flicker of conscience and deviating from her script, or his inconvenient death, she'd be aggravated but probably not grief-stricken in a way we'd define it.

edited for compulsory MOOing

 

[SCHMAE]

So they had a long term lease and got new furniture. Something about that factoid made me a little queasy. Dang if they didn't think they got away with it.

They will only have to stay in jail until July if they get arrested so that's not too bad a term

 

[tresir2012]

No. Now that you mention it, I’m not at all sure it was his kids that he told. I edited the post and removed that line.

Doomsday cult mom of missing children refuses to cooperate with police; told people her daughter was dead: Report

Here's the quote that indicates it was in the weeks after Oct 19th.

“We are aware that in the weeks after Tammy Daybell’s death, Lori Vallow/Daybell and Chad Daybell told witnesses that Lori’s daughter had died a year before the death of her father, which is untrue. Around that same time Chad told another witness that Lori had no minor children,” police reportedly said."

Lori said Tylee had died in 2017 but Chad had said both that Tylee had died and Lori had no minor children. He had to know that both those statements were lies unless he definitely knew they were dead when he said it. This was only weeks after his wife's death he was saying this.

If they do not produce these children, they can be arrested just based on those statements alone IMO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Obviously the prosecutor would know better than me. But I just read the Hawaii statute. It actually talks about extradition for crimes punishable by more than a year...which means a felony. So there may be more too it. He may be assuming they are accused of a felony.

I'm wondering something here. There's a difference between extraditing a criminal and a courtesy hold for another jurisdiction.

If Hawaii extradited a criminal from Idaho, it's going to cost a lot to get them back from Idaho. I don't blame them for not wanting to mess with misdemeanors.

However, if they do a courtesy arrest on Lori for a warrant out of Idaho, all they need to do is hold her until Idaho comes to get her. Idaho is obviously on their doorstep, waiting. Process her, hand her over, and say Aloha.

Jmo

 

[BigAl16]

They will only have to stay in jail until July if they get arrested so that's not too bad a term

Possibly Lori can arrange for someone else to take over her body and she can get translated into someone else and it won't even be that long. LOO (that's Lori's opinion only )

 

[CSIDreamer]

I totally cringed when I read that. I mean, are they so arrogant that they thought life was just going move forward without ever producing the kids??? Apparently, they thought this was all just going to go away. I guess the other side of the coin is that if they only "ran away" to Hawaii, maybe the kids are being kept by someone they know. I know that's unlikely in most cases, but because they're part of this crazy group, I think there's a chance the kids are somewhere in Idaho or Utah. Tylee is old enough to be somewhat responsible for JJ, so it wouldn't be as big of a burden as it may seem for a family to take on the two kids. I know that sounds naive, but I really, really want to keep some hope alive that kids are okay.

I just wanna say had I secreted my 17 year old away with a younger sibling to be responsible for while I lived the high life in Hawaii? My own life would have been in danger ha ha. Jmo.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

If they can prove they broke some sort of federal law/order they can send the Marshals after them, but that's about it.

If Tammy's death was a murder, and if whoever killed her was, say from Arizona, and came to Idaho to do that, and/or if such was agreed upon by telephone or over the Internet. Gee, I wonder if anyone in this case could be have benefited monetarily and could be proven as being 'hired' to such benefit. My guess is that Marshals wouldn't be announced as moving into the scene.

10 Ways Murder Becomes a Federal Crime | Wallin & Klarich
"Murder for Hire (18 U.S.C. Section 1958)
Why is murder-for-hire potentially a federal crime? Congress has legal jurisdiction over interstate commerce. Interstate commerce includes not only the paths that people can travel between states, but also the use of communication pathways such as the postal service, telephone lines, cellular towers, and other electronic communication.

If the killing can only be accomplished by causing a person to travel over state lines (including the victim), or by communicating the request by phone, mail, or the Internet, the murder-for-hire could be a federal crime."

MOO: Sunday's seizure was a reaction to what appeared as a flight risk. LE saw they were moving from the "Hawaiian Hideout" in the direction of the airport and had to stop them quick. Take the care, make their presence known, deliver the ultimatum. Now that Idaho LE is moving in that direction tells me that they don't expect them to be able to produce the children and are anticipating preventing anything else going wrong on the flight back here. We've already seen what happens when these POIs are left to their own devices. It's what started this whole thing in November.

ETA: ...November and before, for a long time...