Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #9

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So talking of encryption, if Chad and Lori had encrypted phones could they be communicating without the knowledge of LE ?
Yes, but that does not require an encrypted phone. There are lots of ways to have secure communications these days that even the best intelligence agencies cannot crack.

Would their phones still ping?
Yes, but they could easily have gotten burner phones.

Would both recipient and sender need encrypted phones? Eg. Lawyer communications.
Yes/no. Hard to answer this question simply. If both ends are not secure then the communication is not secure. An encrypted phone does not guarantee the connection is secure and an secure connection does not protect the information on teh phone. They are kind of both required for complete communication security.

Encrypting the phone prevents anyone (hackers, scammers, law enforcement, the CIA, NSA, etc.) from accessing the information stored on your phone like passwords, account numbers, credit card records, contacts, etc. A secure connection makes it so that if someone intercepts the transmission they cannot understand what is being said.

US courts have ruled that law enforcement cannot force someone to unlock their phone by password, PIN, iris, fingerprint, swipe pattern, etc. And for all practical purposes, an encrypted phone cannot be accessed by law enforcement. If the NSA can't do it for terrorists, I'm pretty sure the RPD can't do it.

Records of who you called, length of call, and so forth are, in the US, partly protected and wholly unprotected depending on the circumstance. There are a lot of things law enforcement does that are increasingly being ruled illegal. Things like faking a cell tower to intercept a call between criminals, for example using a device called a "stingray" is legal BUT, when such devices are used the cases are often dropped because the defense cannot be provided with adequate discovery to challenge the evidence. I say this because those records are business records of the cell phone company. Law enforcement is not automatically entitled to them but in most cases they can get access to this metadata.


If they have been in Hawaii for two months, how have they been communicating with the lawyer or whoever has the kids, if they are still alive? Regular landline phones? CB radio? Email?
I have no idea but there are many apps that offer secure communication. There is no reason they needed to hide communication with their lawyer. That could not be used against them. But if they wanted to, I'm guessing a burner phone would be easiest.
 
The bench warrant would only be for a misdemeanor. Hawaii does not extradite for misdemeanors.

If she is charged with criminal contempt could she be subject to incarceration in Hawaii (assuming judge decides that jail time is warranted)? And, if so, could she be jailed until compliance with underlying court order?

ETA... I apologize for lack of legalese.
 
"He added that two Rexburg officers, the Madison County Prosecutor and a Fremont County Deputy are in Hawaii helping with the case."

Let's all take notice who is in Hawaii. This to me speaks very loudly that little old Idaho and Madison and Fremont County want answers MOO

Yep. Also they are probably there in the event that Lori doesn't produce the kids on Thursday. Between the ID officers and the ID prosecutor they can immediately act on getting an arrest warrant, taking her into custody and transporting her to an Idaho jail. And Kauai police will help oversee any arrest(s) and probably offer the use of their jail until the ID deputy arranges transport of the prisoner(s). Someone was saying before that Hawaii normally won't "extradite" but what that might mean is HI officers are not going to use all their man-power to track down every person with an out-of-state warrant. I imagine, like any other state on the mainland, if an arrest is made of someone with an out of state warrants and the LEA where the person is "wanted" is willing to come get the fugitive, that person will be held for pick-up. Perhaps sometimes LEAs on the mainland can't afford to send officers to Hawaii to transport petty criminals. This case is different, however, as we have 2 missing endangered kids and possibly multiple murders that have happened. Anyone who gets arrested in HI in relation to this case is getting sent back to either ID or AZ (depending on where the crime took place). I'm guessing an arrest will happen on Friday.

MOO.
 
Things we don't know:

What airport Chad and Lori departed from to go to Hawaii.

What date they left for Hawaii.

Where were Chad and Lori when Alex Cox died on December 12?


*If* they have been in hawaii the whole time (since Nov 27), is it possible/has anyone else considered that Lori and/or Chad arranged to have AC "taken care of" by new wife ZP? Perhaps in exchange for insurance money/property/cash?
 
Would they need to have federal marshals make the arrest? Because of jurisdiction and interstate issues?

This is not necessarily a federal case yet?

Oh boy, federal marshals....I hope that Lori has to wear a prison jumpsuit and shackles. Can't wait for the perp walk and pics!
 
Yep. Also they are probably there in the event that Lori doesn't produce the kids on Thursday. Between the ID officers and the ID prosecutor they can immediately act on getting an arrest warrant, taking her into custody and transporting her to an Idaho jail. And Kauai police will help oversee any arrest(s) and probably offer the use of their jail until the ID deputy arranges transport of the prisoner(s). Someone was saying before that Hawaii normally won't "extradite" but what that might mean is HI officers are not going to use all their man-power to track down every person with an out-of-state warrant. I imagine, like any other state on the mainland, if an arrest is made of someone with an out of state warrants and the LEA where the person is "wanted" is willing to come get the fugitive, that person will be held for pick-up. Perhaps sometimes LEAs on the mainland can't afford to send officers to Hawaii to transport petty criminals. This case is different, however, as we have 2 missing endangered kids and possibly multiple murders that have happened. Anyone who gets arrested in HI in relation to this case is getting sent back to either ID or AZ (depending on where the crime took place). I'm guessing an arrest will happen on Friday.

MOO.

I like your suggested outcome here!
 
I would hope that whatever followers he still has can finally rebuke his nonsense. This adventure isn't a good look. :/

It's not like he is a bunker and cannot read the news that is all out there. He is making a choice after reading all of the information on the net, and hearing from friends/family.

And that is to be with her in HI, and to hold hands with her, etc. MOO

Just some observations, all MOO.

The "doomsday group" that he was highly affiliated with, where he and Lori appeared doing podcasts, etc. has since "decided to pull content featuring either Daybell or Vallow in light of Tammy Daybell's death and the disappearance of the children." (direct quote from newslink below)
Mother of missing Idaho children living in Hawaii with new husband

I can't say if he expected this to happen or not, but according to the timelines that have been published here on WS, Chad apparently wanted out of the publishing business and Tammy wanted to keep it running. I don't know if by saying he wanted out of the publishing business he may have been hinting that he wanted out of the doomsday business/group/ideology... because just as the quotes above are saying, what he "believes" and what he does don't coincide right now. He has now been removed from the principal group that most of his fans/followers belong to, one of the only place where he actually had any fame....but maybe he doesn't even care; maybe this is what he wanted anyway?

Also, I am a member of the church which Chad belongs/belonged to, and we have one very specific belief about the end of times: that nobody except God knows when it will be, not even the angels, and not even a prophet. It is possible that Chad has faced or will face repercussions for his claims and teachings and may lose or may have lost his membership in the Church, and if this is the case I am willing to bet that is a loss he did NOT want and did NOT foresee.

So now we have a man who has mysteriously lost his wife, damaged nearly all family relationships, and potentially lost his affiliation with both of the two groups he was wildly passionate about: one possibly by choice and one by force.

What is he left with? His new wife who might believe more in what he has taught than he does.

Moo, moo, moo.
 
So why choose now, after all this time, to serve search warrants and the order to produce the kids?
I am wondering if they know Lori can't produce the kids, and this is to get her back for Justice. She sure didn't look upset about her children, her brother dying, her still husband killed in her house.
 
Police confirm Vallow search warrant served - Local News 8
Quote from my previous post:
"Sean Bartholick who's here in Rexbug, who told me he's still in communication with Vallow even though she is in Hawaii. He was unable to tell me whether or not she planned on presenting the kids. And that he didn't know where the kids were or if they were even alive."
---------
He's still in contact with them. My take is that when they first contacted him, he probably told them not to reveal the location of the kids to avoid any legal obligation to report on his part. At that point I believe he thought he was dealing with a potential custody issue.

His current comments reflect a change in attitude. He would've been able to claim attorney/client on the question of whether or not Lori is planning to present the kids and not comment further but he didn't. He confirmed that he didn't know if Lori was going to show or if the kids were alive.

He's a big fish in a small community. I would imagine it wouldn't go over well for him locally if it turns out he's been representing child murderers all along. He's trying to limit his personal and professional damage in this mess by distancing himself from the original statement he gave on Lori and Chad's behalf. MOO

Agreed, that’s ‘lawyer mentality’, which you clearly understand. Parrot your clients’ words, not the truth, for as long as you can get away with it. Don’t assent something is the unvarnished truth in your own words, unless you yourself know it to be true.
 
If you truly believed the Rapture was coming in a few more months, you would be taking what's left of your 'worldly' life and living it up. I thought about this a lot. If you ' knew ' it was not 'any day now', then you could get away with lots of wild adventures ( sins ) in the next 5 mos and clean up your act at the end of June. My guess is they don't feel any type of weight for any type of 'sins' that may have transpired recently. This is 100% MOO!
 
Yep. Also they are probably there in the event that Lori doesn't produce the kids on Thursday. Between the ID officers and the ID prosecutor they can immediately act on getting an arrest warrant, taking her into custody and transporting her to an Idaho jail. And Kauai police will help oversee any arrest(s) and probably offer the use of their jail until the ID deputy arranges transport of the prisoner(s). Someone was saying before that Hawaii normally won't "extradite" but what that might mean is HI officers are not going to use all their man-power to track down every person with an out-of-state warrant. I imagine, like any other state on the mainland, if an arrest is made of someone with an out of state warrants and the LEA where the person is "wanted" is willing to come get the fugitive, that person will be held for pick-up. Perhaps sometimes LEAs on the mainland can't afford to send officers to Hawaii to transport petty criminals. This case is different, however, as we have 2 missing endangered kids and possibly multiple murders that have happened. Anyone who gets arrested in HI in relation to this case is getting sent back to either ID or AZ (depending on where the crime took place). I'm guessing an arrest will happen on Friday.

MOO.
So you think LE will remain in Hawaii and if they don't appear with the children on Thursday in Rexburg, those officers will have power to arrest and transport them to Idaho ? That does make sense why they would be there in such force.
 
From your link,

"He added that two Rexburg officers, the Madison County Prosecutor and a Fremont County Deputy are in Hawaii helping with the case."

That's a lot of important officials there in Hawaii .

Maybe they had a hard time getting volunteers to come to Hawaii in the winter so they forced everyone to go to spread the pain.
 
Neighbor recalls ‘guarded’ encounter with Daybells; Kauai prosecutor says missing kids have not been in Hawaii

January 28, 2020

KAUAI, Hawaii — When Steve Latham meets most of his new neighbors, he finds they’re thrilled to be moving into the beautiful Villas on the Prince. The gated community of townhouse condos is on the Prince Golf Course in Princeville, Kauai, and is surrounded by palm trees, walking trails, beautiful fountains and a large swimming pool.

Latham has lived here for 10 years and is a real estate agent with Oceanfront Sotheby’s International Realty. He meets a lot of people, and when Chad and Lori Daybell moved two houses down from him early last month, he had an interesting encounter.

STEVE-LATHAM.jpg


“About the first week of December, there were some boxes left on their porch, and I believe they were from Idaho,” Latham recalls. “I called the Realtor that had the listing, and he told me to put them inside. A few days after that, I saw them pull up and I went over and introduced myself. Their names were Chad and Lori.”

The couple was polite but seemed “guarded,” according to Latham. They didn’t open up or share anything about their personal lives but thanked their new neighbor for bringing in their three or four heavy packages.

The unit was for sale and had been vacant for some time. The Daybells did not buy the home, Latham said, but signed a contract as long-term tenants. Many homes in the community are used for vacation rentals, but Chad and Lori had more permanent plans. Latham says they bought furniture and had it moved in.

More at link: Neighbor recalls 'guarded' encounter with Daybells; Kauai prosecutor says missing kids have not been in Hawaii | East Idaho News

BBM.
 
Thanks. I know. I had it in the timeline before (along with all the podcasts) but I took it out because of the cease and desist. Thanks for the Nextdoor source. I might add that event only back and leave out what exactly it was for (the group that shall not be named). Chad's location in Feb is key. I'm not sure if Lori was in ID or only told people she was going to be there but went to HI instead. I believe Charles' lawyers sent service processors to Boise and tried to serve Lori at the hotel, airport and the event where Chad spoke. But they could not find her. They were trying to serve both divorce papers and an order of protection Charles filed. Similarly, Charles saw Lori's car parked at Alex's San Tan Valley home in Feb but no one was there. Perhaps she parked the car and Alex took her to the airport to go to HI? I wonder if Alex went to HI too?

MOO.
I understand the organization that shan’t be named (TOTSBN) proclaimed people not mention them, However, without a court order to the contrary in the US we don’t get to stop people from talking/speculating about us—just ask the Rzuceks.

I fully support WS’s policy that prohibits talking about people who aren’t POI— it’s what sets WS apart from the fray. Often public companies/venues come up in an investigation and are discussed here as part of the case without violating TOS. This event sponsored by TOTSBN actually happened, was advertised to the general public and POI were involved. I contend it’s fair game for unredacted inclusion in your timeline.

Moderators, please weigh in. Can this event be named on Gardener’s timeline? I’d also ask if it’s ok to mention the organization that shan’t be named by name as long as we don’t discuss any of the individuals that are part of that organization.

Thanks!

I’ll report this post myself to make sure mods see it.
 
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I think those locals in the know were trying to not interfere with LE strategy.

And anything to find those missing kids and get justice for those who are gone is priority one.

The key here is that it was common knowledge for those who had a real life connection of some sort with Chad, not common knowledge for a random person on the street (or a random person who has followed the case on Websleuths).
 
So you think LE will remain in Hawaii and if they don't appear with the children on Thursday in Rexburg, those officers will have power to arrest and transport them to Idaho ? That does make sense why they would be there in such force.
The Idaho police have no power to arrest them in Hawaii. The Kauai PD can't arrest them unless they break a Hawaii law.

Edit: Just read what the Kauai prosecutor said. Maybe they can be extradited for a misdemeanor.
 
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