If someone gave Casey a dead Caylee

[RR0004]

Interesting exercise trying to imagine someone gives Casey a dead Caylee.

There is really nothing to fit into a made-up plot after considering phone and computer activity records, as well as the exact testing, evidence, and plant studies done on the remains that really narrow down the timeline to when the crime most likely happened.

I think it is great that LE managed to narrow the timeline down so closely even though Caylee was not even reported missing for 31 days, then not found all those months when Casey played psychic "she's close, I can feel her". The timeline narrows it down to Caylee was in Casey's care when she went missing. The script, protecting her family? Are you kidding? Nothing will fly especially when you start adding in a whole lot of other facts like smelly car, tattoo, the parties, the thieving, and much much more. The Defense team must realize how boxed in they are.

I kinda hope they do read here so they know they'll have to try a little harder. LOL

 

[JBean]

(bolding mine)

I don't know anyone who wouldn't react in the same way as we both described...

Unless they were trying to hide something deliberately. That was my point. Thanks for picking it up.

JMHO

That's playing it very cool... I couldn't do it. Any "body" - I'd be screaming in horror at first, then calm down somewhat to call emergency and LE.

If it were my child's body, I'd be hugging him or her, wishing them back to life with all my being, while I would cry and scream like a banshee. Not for help, for there is none. But for pain. Then I would take them in my arms, cuddle them and call emergency, LE, and swear in my heart that whoever did it had better say their last prayers.

I am a pacifist, but when it comes to children being hurt, let alone killed, that's the limit. I wouldn't hurt the perp myself, but I would see that they get the maximum penalty allowed. I'm against the DP, but in such a scenario, I would feel almost comfortable that it would be justified.

JMHO

That is basically what the Ramseys did with JBR and they were thought to be doing that in order to compromise the body so that their DNA would be all over the body and cast suspicion off of them.
Nothing to do with nothing and I am not challenging your scenario at all. I agree with what you are saying, but just wanted to point out that sometimes the alleged perp will throw themselves on the body and that behavior can be interpreted differently.

 

[RR0004]

Hi RR004

Yes according to George a live Caylee was there on the morning of the 16th, but he may have been persuaded by Cindy that that is what he remembers. He is having to remember a particular morning more than a month past. Very easy to be mistaken and then there is the confusion between the 9th & 16th.

So my hypothetical scenario is: Casey comes back from Tony's evening of Sunday 15th, drives car into garage, unlocks trunk to chuck some stuff in the washing. More than likely Cindy puts Caylee to bed because Casey is texting Tony most of the night. So Cindy "knows" Caylee is there.

I am theorising that on the morning of 16th June, George is doing whatever he normally does, watching TV, reading paper, cleaning his car, whatever, & really doesn't notice if Caylee is there or not because he has other things on his mind such as going to work. Casey gets up & no Caylee. She assumes Cindy has taken matters into her own hands and gone off with Caylee. Tries to contact her mother later in the day - no answer. That would confirm her suspicions that Mum is mad at her and has taken Caylee. Continues to Tony's driving around as normal. At some later time goes to car trunk and finds body, possibly disposes of body with or without help.

Gotcha...so the "heard them breathing" never happened. Well, in this scenario everyone should be hauled in...cause they've all lied.

 

[RR0004]

I don't remember saying that, it isn't part of my theory. I think Casey has lied to her parents, certainly. I don't think, if George was aware of a situation where Caylee was dead and duct taped in the trunk of the car, that he would tell Cindy.



Well my theory is that a hypothetical sex offender in the garage has placed Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car overnight, because this time he has gone too far and killed the child. It gives him a longer getaway than if he leaves her in full view. It avoids having to place her in his own car and leaving evidence there. On the morning of the 16th June, nobody is aware of that yet. It's "just like any other day".

Just because something seems unlikely, it doesn't mean it can't happen!

My theory, not even an opinion really, I will leave that until trial...

Sorry...I was referring to the theory that said someone evil kidnapped Caylee in exchange for payment from Casey. I'm getting confused on who (poster) said what!! LOL

ETA: Sorry again IG...it was littlemisslegal's theory. I'll try to follow better.

 

[BAHD]

I don't remember saying that, it isn't part of my theory. I think Casey has lied to her parents, certainly. I don't think, if George was aware of a situation where Caylee was dead and duct taped in the trunk of the car, that he would tell Cindy.



Well my theory is that a hypothetical sex offender in the garage has placed Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car overnight, because this time he has gone too far and killed the child. It gives him a longer getaway than if he leaves her in full view. It avoids having to place her in his own car and leaving evidence there. On the morning of the 16th June, nobody is aware of that yet. It's "just like any other day".

Just because something seems unlikely, it doesn't mean it can't happen!

My theory, not even an opinion really, I will leave that until trial...

I believe your theory could be possible.

 

[BAHD]

Oops! More evidence to convict her of muder 1.

Sorry.

I'm just wondering if the SA has more evidence that they are not providing to the defense because they don't want it used in the trial.

 

[RR0004]

I believe your theory could be possible.

I do hope the defense goes with this...it will bring the whole family down IMO. (Well we are kinda dreaming, right?)

 

[RR0004]

I'm just wondering if the SA has more evidence that they are not providing to the defense because they don't want it used in the trial.

We'll never know. Same is true the other way as well. The defense could have known where the body was for months...but never told.

 

[Curious Me]

I tried to go with Casey waking up and no Caylee, and she couldn't get ahold of Cindy but assumed she had Caylee...okay, then it starts to fall apart because there does seem to be a dead little girl in the car at some point that Casey became aware of. Didn't she wonder who had Caylee the next day, or the next? Now, please, explain why she decided to bag her daughter she loved so much and dump her like trash to cover up her own innocense?

Or are they going to now say somehow RK did it all, yeppers it was RK. He held on to the body and moved it around for months, despite how busy he was calling to report what he'd already found in the woods...bizarre stuff. Or the dingo took my baby. Casey's reactions are going to be studied by the jury, and the jury will not be able to grasp how a mother could react that way, no matter who or what. You can bet if someone else did that to my child they'll be thinking.... and decide an innocent mother would just not react that way. Normally, there aren't 31 days of reaction to study, but here we have the long, long 31 days. I know reactions aren't proof of anything, but I do believe the jury needs to rely on some form of normal reasoning when looking at people's behavior.

Looking forward to the trial though.

 

[cloud]

That is basically what the Ramseys did with JBR and they were thought to be doing that in order to compromise the body so that their DNA would be all over the body and cast suspicion off of them.
Nothing to do with nothing and I am not challenging your scenario at all. I agree with what you are saying, but just wanted to point out that sometimes the alleged perp will throw themselves on the body and that behavior can be interpreted differently.

Well, they were wrong, weren't they?

If it comes to it, I would hug my child's body to mine as long as I could, and darn the consequences.

We already live in society where we are supposed to overlook someone who is lying in the gutter, or in a park, and dismiss them for drunks or addicts. God forbid that some might be people who have a sesiure or a heart attack. We avoid them just the same.

We also live in a society which makes it almost criminal to help or comfort children. I remember quite a few years ago when my husband and I were driving to a concert to the Opera House in Sydney and we both saw this little toddler on the street, who seemed lost. It was late evening. I asked my husband to drive back, to make sure she was OK. He was as concerned as I was. She was gone by then, God knows where - hopefully back to her family.

Point being, that we both felt we couldn't even approach a child without being accused of something so vile that makes my stomach turn inside out.

JMHO

 

[JBean]

Well, they were wrong, weren't they?

haha I am not touching that with a 10 foot pole!
These guys can answer your question or just go straight to Tricia:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23"]JonBenet Ramsey - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

If it comes to it, I would hug my child's body to mine as long as I could, and darn the consequences.

If it were possible to keep our wits about us in a situation like this, it could preserve valuable evidence and may make the difference between catching our childs killer and not. I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to love on our children. Of course we all know we should not disturb a crime scene, but like you , I doubt I would be able to do it.

We already live in society where we are supposed to overlook someone who is lying in the gutter, or in a park, and dismiss them for drunks or addicts. God forbid that some might be people who have a sesiure or a heart attack. We avoid them just the same.

We also live in a society which makes it almost criminal to help or comfort children. I remember quite a few years ago when my husband and I were driving to a concert to the Opera House in Sydney and we both saw this little toddler on the street, who seemed lost. It was late evening. I asked my husband to drive back, to make sure she was OK. He was as concerned as I was. She was gone by then, God knows where - hopefully back to her family.

Point being, that we both felt we couldn't even approach a child without being accused of something so vile that makes my stomach turn inside out.

JMHO

I think we are talking about a child that is no longer alive. I would not pass someone up that needed help but that is an entirely different topic.

 

[cloud]

I don't remember saying that, it isn't part of my theory. I think Casey has lied to her parents, certainly. I don't think, if George was aware of a situation where Caylee was dead and duct taped in the trunk of the car, that he would tell Cindy.

Well my theory is that a hypothetical sex offender in the garage has placed Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car overnight, because this time he has gone too far and killed the child. It gives him a longer getaway than if he leaves her in full view. It avoids having to place her in his own car and leaving evidence there. On the morning of the 16th June, nobody is aware of that yet. It's "just like any other day".

Just because something seems unlikely, it doesn't mean it can't happen!

My theory, not even an opinion really, I will leave that until trial...

A "hypothetical sex offender" hiding in the garage for an opportunity, just in case? I don't think so.

And I don't believe in the obvious other implication, either.

JMHO

 

[cloud]

I think we are talking about a child that is no longer alive. I would not pass someone up that needed help but that is an entirely different topic.

[respectfully snipped for brevity]

That's the whole point of this discussion. Caylee needed help, but no-one saw it or gave it much thought. That's why she's no longer alive.

JMHO

 

[JBean]

[respectfully snipped for brevity]

That's the whole point of this discussion. Caylee needed help, but no-one saw it or gave it much thought. That's why she's no longer alive.

JMHO

I am sorry Cloud, i was speaking to what if someone handed Casey a dead Caylee.
I see what you are trying to say and i was responding from a completely different place. So sorry.

 

[cloud]

I am sorry Cloud, i was speaking to what if someone handed Casey a dead Caylee.
I see what you are trying to say and i was responding from a completely different place. So sorry.

Please, no need to be sorry. Everyone speaks from their perspective, and none of them are wrong - just different, sometimes. I appreciate your posts and your considerate moderating style.

 

[panthera]

A "hypothetical sex offender" hiding in the garage for an opportunity, just in case? I don't think so.

And I don't believe in the obvious other implication, either.

JMHO

I can't see this happening for several reasons, most obviously both the A's were home and Casey was up all night texting with her boyfriend, so I highly doubt any stranger SO was inside the house. Also, Casey's car was most likely outside the garage and where would the perp get the keys to the trunk? :waitasec:

 

[Ada]

No normal person would fail to report a missing child I agree. But a dead shild is somethin else again. I think any person would be shocked and horrified to find their own child in this condition, even if they had been stoned, drunk, stupid or otherwise emotionally challenged. It would take quite some time to recover before up and driving the corpse to the police station.

Any intelligent person would stop and think "that will incriminate me for something I didn't do". Who would you trust to help you if you found yourself in this (hypothetical) situation? If it were me, I might go to the police, but I would certainly expect them to arrest me.

A 'person' might think this, but not a mother. Not ever a mother. A mother would be shrieking to the heavens for someone to help her child. She would call every available source and demand that her child be revived. The last thing on her mind would be whether or not she would be incriminated.

And since Casey is Mother of the Year....

:angel:

 

[believe09]

If she drove to the nearest police station with her dead daughter they wouldn't have considered her blameless & foolish, they would have charged her with murder. Same if anyone else took the dead child to the police.

Let me be a little more clear-if the scenario was the mysterious "they" presenting a dead Caylee to Casey...I think Casey would have run to LE in a minute with the child and explained to LE that "they" murdered her child.

 

[chefmom]

I totally agree.

I believe the defense is clutching at straws... that's all they've got. If they need to resort to this, that's their problem.

GA testified that he saw Casey carrying Caylee to the car while he was watching TV. Then he recently modified his testimony to say that he held the car door open for Casey to get Caylee into her seat. Take your pick.

None of this involves someone hiding in the garage just waiting to snatch Caylee.

JMHO

Ding, ding, ding! And the winner is. . . . . . .cloud!

 

[cloud]

If she drove to the nearest police station with her dead daughter they wouldn't have considered her blameless & foolish, they would have charged her with murder. Same if anyone else took the dead child to the police.

That wouldn't be my first consideration. I would have held her in my arms, call emergency and waited until they came before I moved another centimeter. Whatever charges they would attempt is beyond my love and caring for my daughter. I certainly wouldn't pack her in a laundry bag inside a garbage bag and throw her in the woods. But to each their own. :furious:

JMHO