IF They Did It

[SleuthMom]

I have thought the same thing.

Wanted to add my own "loss" experience, not that it at all compares to what teacherbees (I'm sorry, teacherbee) and others have gone through but I do think my reaction was pretty common and reflects a fairly normal materal reaction.

We did not know our son had Down Syndrome until shortly after he was born. I'm usually the rock, the stoic one in times of crisis and I usually deal with crisis by sleeping too much and eating too much (I'd guess you'd say I'm the stoic rock when I'm awake ) But when the doctors and my husband told me our son had Down's, I totally lost it. I was so near the edge of my sanity that for weeks I literally couldn't sit still, I felt as though if I did sit for one second this huge black cloud of grief and insanity would so overwhelm me I would never recover. Why the intense reaction? I later learned I was literally grieving for the loss ("death" in a very real way to me) of the little boy I thought I was going to have. My SIL explained it best to me when she said "You have to let yourself grieve for the baby you thought you were going to have"--and I did grieve for months. What I didn't do and didn't care to do AT ALL was to offer support to other moms. I was still too angry and grieved and mad a God to give a darn about anyone else in the same boat (am I'm usually a very understand person, if I may say so myself). I had absolutely nothing to offer anyone else at that point in my life.

So my experience isn't nearly on the same grief or tragic level as those who have truly lost a child but from my personal experience I can't fathom the McCann's immediately jumping into the "save other kids" bandwagon (along with many other things they've done/didn't do). The jogging I can understand, maybe even some of the blogging but not the extensive traveling, the leaving their twins at the creche, and again, not their quick efforts to push for help for other children. Those last 3 behaviours I cannot make fit into an "innocent parent" situation. I'm quite sure if my child was abducted or had wandered off, I'd have been physically searching every inch of that resort, countryside, every vehicle, every employee---I'd have probably gotten arrested for over stepping my boundaries.

I'd like to add that I did "care" for my new baby when he was born, but it took me several months to love him. Now I literally thank God every day for him, he's wonderful and I wouldn't change him for anything.

Just my experience

Wow, your experience is so moving. Thank you so much for sharing it! :blowkiss:

 

[SleuthMom]

We can understand venting about a tough day or difficult childish behavior, but complaining in the journal that was supposedly started at Auntie Phil's suggestion (and I can see where you'd do what Auntie Phil suggests) for the child to read?

Sorry but Auntie Phil likes the drink too much or she thinks we are all a bunch of stupid people. Please! Who is going to believe such BS? I understand the idea of the diary as means to "cope" or to express your feelings but to get your missing daughter to read when she returns? I am sure she will like the part that says she is hysterical. Oh come on! :loser:

 

[IrishMist]

The thought that we can't judge guilt or innocence goes two ways.

If we can't judge guilt based on unusual actions, odd responses, or lack of affect, we also can't judge innocence based on expressions of grief, pleas for global efforts, or outraged comments about being questioned for involvement.

Exactly, and I agree.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

s_finch, wow. Your post moved me to tears...snip.

Me too, both of your posts did as a matter of fact. My own story is similar to s_finch. We lost our son to the world of autism when he was around two. It was very painful to lose the dream of a typical little boy. Then as he grew and became a Houdini, we learned even more how painful it was.

One day when our son was 4 he did disappear. He was inside with me while I was fixing dinner, my husband was right outside the door push mowing the front lawn. My son wanted to go out and swing on the play set, so I motioned to my husband that he was outside...my husband nodded and acknowledged him being there. One minute I looked out the window and he was swinging, and less than five minutes later he was gone. I hollered at my husband and asked where he was...my husband thought he had come back inside. We frantically searched for about 10 minutes. My son, because of his autism, was almost totally non-verbal at that age, so calling his name didn't help, he would not answer back.

I called the neighbors for help. I'll never forget my exact words. "Andrew had wandered off, please come and help us find him". Within minutes the fire department, and tons of neighbors where at the house searching. We finally found him about an hour later, over a mile away, near a small river that runs near here. He was safe, and happy. What a relief.

Never in a million years did we think he had been abducted, I knew he liked water, so my biggest fear is that he would drown, or fall into a ravine, or get hit by a car. That is what ran through my mind. Also, it took me several years after his diagnosis before I could start any type of autism awareness. It took a long time to deal through our own depression and grief. It wasnt until much later that we found Holland was a wonderfully unique place to be!

The McCanns behavior is quite odd. If Maddie was known to wander off, the first words from Kate's mouth should have been something to reflect that. "She's gone", "She took off again", or even "The little $h*t ran off", anything but her rehearsed kidnap rant.

 

[Morag]

Sorry but Auntie Phil likes the drink too much or she thinks we are all a bunch of stupid people. Please! Who is going to believe such BS? I understand the idea of the diary as means to "cope" or to express your feelings but to get your missing daughter to read when she returns? I am sure she will like the part that says she is hysterical. Oh come on! :loser:

I think Auntie Phil is an educator of some sort, I've heard her described as a 'head teacher.' This suggestion of hers fits right in with the boosting self-esteem philosophy common in education today. She thought/thinks her sister-in-law is innocent, and she wanted/wants little Madeleine to have proof positive that her mom is totally involved and absorbed in the search. And keeping a journal is another educational tool. Phil had good intentions; she couldn't have known how they would have been misinterpreted. Having defended Auntie Phil, I gotta say, she is one skeery teacher- looks like my first grade teacher Miss Adams- known as Atom Bomb.

 

[colomom]

teacherbees, s_finch, iNTERESTEDWOMAN....

Thank you for sharing a part of your struggles to help us understand.

Your perspective adds more weight to what has always been a questionable aspect of this case.

....because you are strong moms!!

 

[Squishified]

teacherbees, s-finch, iNTERESTEDWOMAN....

Thank you for sharing a part of your struggles to help us understand.

Your perspective adds more weight to what has always been a questionable aspect of this case.

....because you are strong moms!!

Ditto! :blowkiss:

 

[Bob&Bob]

Does anyone know if Mrs. Fenn is married?​

 

[SleuthMom]

As far as I know, she is a widow.

 

[Texana]

She's a widow with an adult daughter who visits her. She's a permanent resident.

 

[Love_Mama]

I have thought the same thing.

Wanted to add my own "loss" experience, not that it at all compares to what teacherbees (I'm sorry, teacherbee) and others have gone through but I do think my reaction was pretty common and reflects a fairly normal materal reaction.

We did not know our son had Down Syndrome until shortly after he was born. I'm usually the rock, the stoic one in times of crisis and I usually deal with crisis by sleeping too much and eating too much (I'd guess you'd say I'm the stoic rock when I'm awake ) But when the doctors and my husband told me our son had Down's, I totally lost it. I was so near the edge of my sanity that for weeks I literally couldn't sit still, I felt as though if I did sit for one second this huge black cloud of grief and insanity would so overwhelm me I would never recover. Why the intense reaction? I later learned I was literally grieving for the loss ("death" in a very real way to me) of the little boy I thought I was going to have. My SIL explained it best to me when she said "You have to let yourself grieve for the baby you thought you were going to have"--and I did grieve for months. What I didn't do and didn't care to do AT ALL was to offer support to other moms. I was still too angry and grieved and mad a God to give a darn about anyone else in the same boat (am I'm usually a very understand person, if I may say so myself). I had absolutely nothing to offer anyone else at that point in my life.

So my experience isn't nearly on the same grief or tragic level as those who have truly lost a child but from my personal experience I can't fathom the McCann's immediately jumping into the "save other kids" bandwagon (along with many other things they've done/didn't do). The jogging I can understand, maybe even some of the blogging but not the extensive traveling, the leaving their twins at the creche, and again, not their quick efforts to push for help for other children. Those last 3 behaviours I cannot make fit into an "innocent parent" situation. I'm quite sure if my child was abducted or had wandered off, I'd have been physically searching every inch of that resort, countryside, every vehicle, every employee---I'd have probably gotten arrested for over stepping my boundaries.

I'd like to add that I did "care" for my new baby when he was born, but it took me several months to love him. Now I literally thank God every day for him, he's wonderful and I wouldn't change him for anything.

Just my experience

My daugher is due to have her first baby on Nov. 11.. She is 44 yrs.. old

HIGH RISk

She did NOT take the invasive test to see if her first child was could be 'special" Both of us agreed that ..........that would be okay. I pray that that she will be okay......but if not........what the heck. It's a mind set that have to agree with. Bless you,

xxxxxxxxxxxxoooooo
mama
:blowkiss:

 

[ThoughtFox]

Thanks to all of you for sharing your stories - it is never easy to talk about loss of a child or a dream, so you are all brave survivors.

teacherbees: Hugs to you about the child you lost. My oldest son was born in 1990 - I was just writing his birthdate on some papers for college. I will give him an extra hug today before he goes to school and thank God he's been here for the past 17 years.

Thank you all for putting things in perspective about the McCanns also.

Instinctively, as a mother myself, I believe some of their behavior is not typical. If I found an empty bed where my daughter was supposed to be sleeping, I would assume she had gotten up and gone outside. If I thought she was lost, I would have first checked with the hotel office to see if she had been taken there. I know that fear can make someone hysterical, but the illogic of the statement "They've taken her" is hard to understand. Who is "they"?

Why didn't they check with the Creche (childcare), too? As I understand it, the Nanny in charge of the Creche first heard someone shouting outside before she knew Maddie was missing! Why wouldn't someone have gone to the Creche to see if Maddie had wandered there first? It was a place she knew well.

And why did Kate say a few times that Madeleine would "never" have gotten up and gone outside? That goes against my experiences with small children.

 

[gord]

If the body had been stored in the vicinity however well - it would have been discovered by now

I think all this talk of duffle bags , coolers , fridges are just stretching it too far

Are we really saying that the the Police were so bumbiling that they wouldnt have at least searched things like coolers , fridges - they might have actualy talked to retailers in the area - Gerry buys a cooler big enought to store a body - hmm do you think that it might have set of a few alarm bells somewhere

Again the whole conspiracy theory that the rest of the Tapas group are all in it and helping the Mccaans doesnt make sense . Who in their right mind who has a job family a life would risk going to prison for a long time to protect a colleague from murder - and murdering a child.

I have said it before and said it again

1. no body

2. no real apparent motive

3. No direct and firm foresnic evidence ( ok that we know of )

 

[daffodil]

If the body had been stored in the vicinity however well - it would have been discovered by now

I think all this talk of duffle bags , coolers , fridges are just stretching it too far

Are we really saying that the the Police were so bumbiling that they wouldnt have at least searched things like coolers , fridges - they might have actualy talked to retailers in the area - Gerry buys a cooler big enought to store a body - hmm do you think that it might have set of a few alarm bells somewhere

Again the whole conspiracy theory that the rest of the Tapas group are all in it and helping the Mccaans doesnt make sense . Who in their right mind who has a job family a life would risk going to prison for a long time to protect a colleague from murder - and murdering a child.

I have said it before and said it again

1. no body

2. no real apparent motive

3. No direct and firm foresnic evidence ( ok that we know of )

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Edwards20]

All of your stories have touched me. God Bless each of you. I just walked in again and hugged my 5 year old.

Maddie, where are you ?

 

[PharmSleuth]

Are we really saying that the the Police were so bumbiling that they wouldnt have at least searched things like coolers , fridges - they might have actualy talked to retailers in the area

Thought I would add a crazy theory-don't laugh now: a different place where she could have been hidden—a high voltage room that is behind a steel door-it is a place where searchers might fear for their own safety.

Why would I come up with this? Well, there was a case in Indiana at Purdue University in Jan 2007 in which an adult man was last heard of talking on his cell phone in the back of a dorm at 1230AM. Then, he just vanished. They traced his cell phone ping to that back door. 300 students and faculty and the FBI searched for him. Two months later he was found 20 feet from his last position in a high voltage room whose steel door (supposedly always locked) was right next to the door where his cell phone pinged. They didn’t find him because of the death smell, but because some of his clothes had eventually touched the electrical equipment and a custodian heard a sizzling sound. Searchers had peeked in but hadn’t entered the high voltage room. I wonder if these sort of places had been searched or if Maddie could have temporarily been hidden there in a duffle bag or suitcase. Then, maybe transported at night to wherever she is now.

How could the police (and FBI in the case above) be bumbling?...well... strange things have happened

 

[Rino]

1. no body

2. no real apparent motive

3. No direct and firm foresnic evidence ( ok that we know of )

1. Sad but true

2. Of course not, need the body

3. I beleive there is or the PJ would not have gone to the prosecutor.

The blood found after the initial seach by the the cadavor dogs indications, found after clean up, therefore suspicious. As well as the "scent" on cuddle cat, Kates and anothers clothes. Plus the dna in the car. Never mind the contradiction stories from the McCanns themselves, behavior is as much concrete to an investigation as physical evidence.

To deny this is to accept they are just bumbling cops or setting up the McCanns, which I don't buy into.

 

[gord]

1. Sad but true

2. Of course not, need the body

3. I beleive there is or the PJ would not have gone to the prosecutor.

The blood found after the initial seach by the the cadavor dogs indications, found after clean up, therefore suspicious. As well as the "scent" on cuddle cat, Kates and anothers clothes. Plus the dna in the car. Never mind the contradiction stories from the McCanns themselves, behavior is as much concrete to an investigation as physical evidence.

To deny this is to accept they are just bumbling cops or setting up the McCanns, which I don't buy into.

I think bumbling might be a bit closer to the truth - To me it seems they are trying to fit what they have into a theory they have made instead of the other way around - A lot of reports coming out now are saying that the PJ made a complete hash of the whole investigation - schoolboy errors .

anyway dealing with your points

what blood ? in the car or flat . I have never seen any cast iron reports that they found blood - trace elements of DNA that could have come from anything from sweat to skin fragments - but not blood

DNA in the car - see above PLUS the DNA lab in Bristol where the tests were done are now been quoted as saying that the DNA evidence is no where near good or clean enough to prove anything with the cross contamination posibilities

the cadaver dogs - not even adminisable as evidence . If the dogs could speak English or portugese then maybe we could gleam more - but all the dogs do is give the police an area to work on -

contradictory evidence ? All in all I think the Mccaans have been pretty consistent in everything - I havent seen any big change in story what so ever

 

[browneyedgirl]

I have to jump in and offer my experience in this situation. My brother passed away in 1993. He was 29 and still living at home with our mom. (Our dad had passed in 1987 and she wasn't comfortable living on her own so my brother stayed with her.) He was her 3rd child.
He died due to the fact that he hit his head on his nightstand and it killed him instantly. He had a hole in his forehead about the size of a sharpened pencil. He was not married and had no children. My mom, to this day, can't even mention his name. A couple of years ago for Christmas, she made all of us kids scrap books of all baby pictures. When we asked her about Toro's, and she instantly teared up.
I tell this story, because, IMHO, no-way the McCann's could be focusing on other children instead of their own. This is the one thing that I've never been able to get past, if they didn't know what happened to Maddie, how in the world could they even think of another child?
In my experience with my mother, no way she would have been worried about someone else's child. Toro's friend passed away last week from cancer and when I called to ask if she wanted to attend the visitation with us, her response was "after seeing Toro in his casket, I just can't take seeing another young person in their casket. It's just too hard." Honestly, IMO, that's one of the main reasons why I have suspected them and it seems everyday, there is just another reason for me to think they are guilty...

 

[Morag]

Thought I would add a crazy theory-don't laugh now: a different place where she could have been hidden—a high voltage room that is behind a steel door-it is a place where searchers might fear for their own safety.

Do you remember that there was said to be some sort of dog evidence in a cupboard at the resort? There was discussion as to what a cupboard might be- cabinet on the wall, closet like thing, or some kind of storage room...Maybe there was a nearby utility room which was used...I like your idea, PharmSleuth! And I do remember that sad case you referenced...