If you agree or disagree with the verdict, let us know why

[gxm]

Didn't JB pull out GA's depo and bring this out in trial on many occasions? (I want to say that it was probably every time GA was on the stand). There were statements pointed out in the depo that were changed during the trial, etc.

I don't recall admonishing anyone on this board for disliking KC or presuming guilt (although I know I've gotten snarky with responses to snarky comments, so it's possible).

BBM. And which statements were those that you found so compelling and lead you to believe he was an accomplice? I watched the trial and it seemed to me that JB's entire strategy was to harp on insignificant details and foster confusion. Really, that whole gas can thing was ridiculous. I don't know how HHBP kept his cool.

IMO, GA came across as perhaps the most sympathetic witness to take the stand. I didn't buy the despicable sex molester boogieman story that JB slandered him with. (And I am very sensitive to child abuse and almost always side with the victim.)

I wasn't singling you out. Sorry if it came out that way.

 

[eleni777]

I actually see the bolded statement quite differently (imagine that :crazy

I believe she was so far from reality that she met LE at Universal Studios, took them down some hallway, until she realized that the jig was up, no one was going to believe it.

What kind of person takes a lie that far with LE (of all people)??

She brought them there, they didn't ask to go to her job, if IIRC. She stated she'd meet them there to pick up her Nokia cell from her desk and they could stop at the security podium to see if anyone's seen Caylee.

Either that excited her to be in that much trouble, or she just didn't realize what was going on around her because she was out of touch with reality. :twocents:

RE:to the bbm. Someone that lies all the time.

I've read on here that sociopath's and patholigical liars tell their lies so much that they actually believe them. Their lies become their reality.

 

[dvdman]

But<modsnip> he was not the only witness or the only evidence against her. Her own actions were more incriminating then ANY of the witnesses or evidence. She was the only one who has access to all of the items at the crime scene. I ask you, why did she borrow the shovel? Why did she refuse to speak to the FBI when her father begged her to? Why did search for "How To Make Chloroform"? Why did she lie to the police? Why did not cooperate with the authorities? I could go on and on. My point is all of her actions were to either to plan,commit or cover her crime.

Just because GA wasn't on trial doesn't mean that it would be ok for him to go on the stand as a witness in a trial and lie. His credibility would be questioned. No one is suppose to lie on the stand, or in their depositions.

 

[Leah0107]

I was responding to a prior post that argued they believed that Casey WAS culpably negligent, and was asking for what charge would those who believe she is guilty (in my case of 1st degree murder) would agree to.

I understand your arguments are different.

Yes not all drownings are manslaughter. But a drowning followed by a failure to call 911 IS evidence of reckless disregard for human life and gross careless disregard of public safety and wellness.

If she was truly innocent and not responsible for Caylee's death, why would she not call 911? This is not normal behavior as the medical examiner clearly testified based on her experience (100% never happens in cases of innocent drownings was her testimony).

No evidence in the case was presented to explain why she behave in ways never experienced. Baez in his opening statement promised us such evidence but he never delivered it.

Behavioral evidence is circumstantial evidence but must be interpreted in terms of reasonable possibilities based on evidence and not speculation without evidence.

Bolding mine....sums it up perfectly. People keep making excuses for her behavior and trying to spin in a positive light without ANY evidence to support it. DON'T GET IT AT ALL! Specifically regarding behavior... In the beginning of the trial while operating under the presumption of innocence, I kept trying to maintain that presumption, but the more evidence I heard, the more that presumption kept slipping away and nothing was entered in that built that back up for me.

 

[logicalgirl]

I am comforted by one thought and one thought only.

Someday, somewhere, if Jose Baez is going to expect to continue a legal career or work as a talking head on any media show, he is going to have to face the tough questions by someone who has the cajones to ask them.

Jose, the lawyer who understood none of the scientific evidence, who couldn't even understand the difference between quantitative and qualitative and why only one of them applied to this case, who argued about the definition of trash vs. garbage, whose experts all in the end agreed with the states experts, who constantly referred his cell phone texts to even understand what questions he needed to ask in his cross examinations - one day he will need to provide answers to those questions.

And that day will happen in the next six months. He's hiding out right now,still negotiating big deals because his financial future depends on it, but life goes on Jose! I'm a patient person - I can wait......:croc:

I am waiting to see him walk off of that set and refuse to answer questions he doesn't know the answer to.:floorlaugh:

 

[Sustained]

There was no reference to him watching Caylee prior to him having an evening job, at least none that I read from his depo IIRC.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen ... Caylee was born Aug 2005. FCA and CA were "working" throughout the period of shortly after Caylee's birth to June 2008. Zanny was not mentioned to the family until early 2008. Who was watching Caylee from say Sep 2005 to the end of 2007 if FCA was working a different schedule all the time and CA was working days. It's really hard to believe that GA did not watch Caylee alone during that 2+ year stretch.

 

[WillChgo]

IMO, there was a possibility that Caylee had been gone long enough for them to recognize there's no coming back. I'm not excusing that behavior in any way, I'm simply stating it's possible.

And that goes for all of my posts defending the verdict. I'm not excusing Casey's behavior, I'm just stating that in my belief it is possible for what JB stated happened to happen.

As per jury instructions:

"A reasonable doubt is not a mere possible doubt, a speculative, imaginary or forced doubt."

Just because there is a possibility of something occurring does not mean that it constitutes a reasonable possibility.

IMO, there is plenty of evidence in the case to suggest that your scenario is not a reasonable possibility:

1. The medical examiner's testimony.
2. Casey's failure to admit an accidental drowning when confronted by the investigators at Universal Studios-- that would have been an easy way out for her. Why if your scenario was true did she not take it?
3. Her brushing off her mother's comments when told of the scenario of the drowning accident.
4. George Anthony's testimony of what transpired June 16th.

 

[eleni777]

<modsnip> he was not the only witness or the only evidence against her. Her own actions were more incriminting then ANY of the witnesses. She was the only one who has access to all of the items at the crime scene. I ask you, why did she borrow the shovel? Why did she refuse to speak to the FBI when her father begged her to? Why did search for "How To Make Chloroform"? Why did she lie to the police? Why did not cooperate with the authorities? I could go on and on. My point is all of her actions were to either to plan,commit or cover her crime.

All the items found at the crimes scene, the garbage bags, the laundry bag, and the now INFAMOUS duct tape were all be traced back to the Anthony's house..
Casey wasn't the only one to have access to all them.
Four people had access to all those items.
TWO had better access because they knew where the key to the locked shed was kept, which was where George kept the duct tape.

George and Cindy had access and also knew where the shed key was kept hidden FROM CASEY.
Lee had access all the items except the duct tape.
Casey had access to all the items except the duct tape.

Casey was able to break into the shed...that's how she stole the gas cans and that's how she had access to the duct tape.

 

[WillChgo]

I actually see the bolded statement quite differently (imagine that :crazy

I believe she was so far from reality that she met LE at Universal Studios, took them down some hallway, until she realized that the jig was up, no one was going to believe it.

What kind of person takes a lie that far with LE (of all people)??

She brought them there, they didn't ask to go to her job, if IIRC. She stated she'd meet them there to pick up her Nokia cell from her desk and they could stop at the security podium to see if anyone's seen Caylee.

Either that excited her to be in that much trouble, or she just didn't realize what was going on around her because she was out of touch with reality. :twocents:

If by being out of touch with reality you mean that she could get away with her lies, then we are talking about two different things by the use of that term.

Casey was the sort of person who had a history of getting away with lying. She was good at it and she knew it. That is the kind of person who takes a lie that far.

But do you think she actually believed she worked at Universal Studios?
That would be being out of touch with reality.

:twocents:

 

[dvdman]

The duct tape was stored in the garage and by living in the house she had access to it too. Other then Casey NONE of them had any motive to hide Caylee's death. They actually loved her.

All the items found at the crimes scene, the garbage bags, the laundry bag, and the now INFAMOUS duct tape were all be traced back to the Anthony's house..
Casey wasn't the only one to have access to all them.
Four people had access to all those items.
TWO had better access because they knew where the key to the locked shed was kept, which was where George kept the duct tape.

George and Cindy had access and also knew where the shed key was kept hidden FROM CASEY.
Lee had access all the items except the duct tape.
Casey had access to all the items except the duct tape.

Casey was able to break into the shed...that's how she stole the gas cans. How she broke into it I have no clue.

 

[Leah0107]

If what JB said possibly happened then why did he and she wait 3 years to bring it out? I'll tell you why because it never happened. It was more of her lies.

Right! Why would she risk a murder 1 charge with possible dp conviction? At any point she could have spoken with LE with her lawyer present and say there was a drowning, and my father was involved.

 

[Sustained]

All the items found at the crimes scene, the garbage bags, the laundry bag, and the now INFAMOUS duct tape were all be traced back to the Anthony's house..
Casey wasn't the only one to have access to all them.
Four people had access to all those items.
TWO had better access because they knew where the key to the locked shed was kept, which was where George kept the duct tape.

George and Cindy had access and also knew where the shed key was kept hidden FROM CASEY.
Lee had access all the items except the duct tape.
Casey had access to all the items except the duct tape.

Casey was able to break into the shed...that's how she stole the gas cans. How she broke into it I have no clue.

Read GA's depo pg 169 - the duct tape was in the garage. FCA would've had access to the duct tape.

 

[eleni777]

The duct tape was stored in the garage and by living in the house she had access to it too. Other then Casey NONE of them had any motive to hide Caylee's death. They actually loved her.

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded.

If they loved Caylee they would not have left her alone with Casey. They KNEW Casey was not right, call it what you want, but Casey's personality was off the charts COO COO. She'd been lying, stealing, partying and sleeping around for YEARS.. how do you think Caylee came about. After the first time she had s#x?

Cindy was an enabler that allowed Casey to get away with her bad behavior.
George was "not strong enough" to foce Cindy to face the truth and stopping the charade.

The grandparents , Cindy and Geroge, put that precious baby in harms way EVERY TIME THE LEFT HER WITH CASEY. They knew better. That's not love.

sorry for the rant.

 

[logicalgirl]

Doesn't mean it didn't happen ... Caylee was born Aug 2005. FCA and CA were "working" throughout the period of shortly after Caylee's birth to June 2008. Zanny was not mentioned to the family until early 2008. Who was watching Caylee from say Sep 2005 to the end of 2007 if FCA was working a different schedule all the time and CA was working days. It's really hard to believe that GA did not watch Caylee alone during that 2+ year stretch.

Huh? FCA did not return to work after Caylee's birth. She never returned from her mat leave...

 

[cityslick]

The duct tape was stored in the garage and by living in the house she had access to it too. Other then Casey NONE of them had any motive to hide Caylee's death. They actually loved her.

You still have not proven that although all these people had access to that stuff, it was only Casey that did it.

We've already learned that lying does not equal guilt.

 

[Sustained]

Didn't JB pull out GA's depo and bring this out in trial on many occasions? (I want to say that it was probably every time GA was on the stand). There were statements pointed out in the depo that were changed during the trial, etc.

JB was nitpicking at trivial things to make it seem GA was lying on purpose. As I said before, I challenge anyone to go back 2 years and remember everything that was happening in a very traumatic setting. I bet 99% of you can't and if you could remember some detail, it might not be consistent to what actually happened 2 years ago.

If GA would have said I had black underwear on during his depo and at trial he changed his answer to red, does that make him a liar ? Or someone who thinks he remembers, but really doesn't.

 

[Sustained]

Huh? FCA did not return to work after Caylee's birth. She never returned from her mat leave...

I meant "working" in a sarcastic way when mentioning FCA. She told her parents she was still "working" at Universal.

 

[dvdman]

Well I don't think they ever thought in their worst nightmare she was capable of harming her own daughter. I'm sure they waited as long as possible before calling the authorities knowing that was they did she was going to be in trouble for lying. Her parents are only guilty of covering for her more then they probably should have and I'm sure that eats at them everyday.

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded.

If they loved Caylee they would not have left her alone with Casey. They KNEW Casey was not right, call it what you want, but Casey's personality was off the charts COO COO. Cindy was an enabler that allowed Casey to get away with it and George was a spineless wuss for not force Cindy to face the truth. The grandparents put that precious baby in harms way EVERY TIME THE LEFT HER WITH CASEY. They knew.

sorry for the rant.

 

[logicalgirl]

You still have not proven that although all these people had access to that stuff, it was only Casey that did it.

We've already learned that lying does not equal guilt.

Well here's the problem - we don't have to prove it, and neither did the state. You've just proven one of our major objections as to how this jury came to their verdict.

We have to use common sense to discover who had the need for it. Who out of GA, CA and FCA was most likely to tell a lie, not face the responsibility of Caylee's death, regardless of murder or accident. Who was Caylee's only legal guardian, and had sole responsibility for her welfare? Who had a history of habitual lying and habitual history of not providing care for Caylee out of the three? And who was most likely to not make the 911 call? And whose behavior drastically changed immediately after Caylee died? Hmmmm....I wonder....:waitasec:...

 

[gxm]

The duct tape was stored in the garage and by living in the house she had access to it too. Other then Casey NONE of them had any motive to hide Caylee's death. They actually loved her.

Ah, yes, motive. There's the stickiest of the sticky wickets in the GA-killed-Caylee scenario. Not only is there no evidence, there's no motive.