If you agree or disagree with the verdict, let us know why

[BuzzieCat]

The 'one instance' is in regards to everything that related to the one event in her life. Her child died, she went on a shopping spree with someone else's money, it has become publicly known her child is gone, then we find out her child is dead, etc etc. We can't go back through the years and say "This year she was arrested for DUI, this year she was arrested for stealing, this year she was arrested for murder, this year she was arrested for domestic violence, this year she was arrested for check fraud, etc etc. Everything stemmed from a very short period of time.

That's making it sound like she stole only in response to Caylee's death. I could search for a link if I must, but it's my understanding that Casey had been stealing from her mother's bank account and even once from her grandfather's account, before anything happened to Caylee.

Now I realize that she hasn't been convicted for that stealing, only for the stealing that happened after Caylee died, but the stealing itself can be shown not to have been a grief response since there was pre-death stealing.

That is true that none of that happened in this case... but if LE had looked into other scenarios they could've come up with what the DT stated in OS. I mean, we truly don't know if the accident is true, if the murder is true, etc. We just don't, although many of us have our beliefs. But, if LE did investigate other aspects of this case, we may have come up with other information proving more so one of the theories. But, they focused on Casey after day 1. So, we don't know if there is other information out there supporting the drowning or supporting the murder.

I'm just not sure why, when faced with Casey making up the nanny story, LE would be expected to ignore that, not follow up with her about her lies, and instead investigate others. Why would Casey's lies about the imagi-nanny make LE think that Casey and/or Caylee had been abused? I'm also not sure how investigating GA or LA would have brought anything to light. Even if one or the other of them did abuse Casey, the physical evidence of that must be long gone. The DT's OS is not evidence and has not been proven. Casey herself denied that there had been an accident - LE asked her, meaning they were willing to entertain the idea of an accident. Also, how would they investigate a possible accident? Caylee's body wasn't found until way too late to see if she drowned.

 

[beccalecca1]

I agree with a lot of what you said here. And there are others who would agree there is insufficient evidence to label her a psychopath.

I'll show you one trigger - her mother! The points when she gets most upset in this video are with her mother either on the phone or about to be put on the phone. When her mother refuses Casey's reality, this sends her into a FIT. And that is what happened on June 16, IMO. She told Amy on that morning she was finding another place to live.

‪New Jailhouse Video of Casey Anthony the Alleged Baby Killer: She's "Beyond Frustrated"‬‏ - YouTube

I do agree her mother is a trigger (not that her denial of Casey's reality throws her into a FIT). I think her mother does a lot that triggers Casey's anger, especially during Caylee's 2nd birthday party and CA doing everything as if she was Caylee's mom (that frustrate me also).

I don't know if her mother's triggering is something that normally is experienced with new mothers (especially single ones that are living with their parents), I do know, like I posted before, my mother irritated me a lot when I had my first daughter. I understand it better now (4 years later), but in the beginning I felt like my mom was giving me "pointers" (I'm being nice.. lol), that she felt I needed the pointers because I didn't know what to do otherwise. Like, she was questioning my ability to be a mother. I know a lot of my friends experienced the same. But, I don't want to say that it's normal (although I think it probably is).

 

[beccalecca1]

That's making it sound like she stole only in response to Caylee's death. I could search for a link if I must, but it's my understanding that Casey had been stealing from her mother's bank account and even once from her grandfather's account, before anything happened to Caylee.

Now I realize that she hasn't been convicted for that stealing, only for the stealing that happened after Caylee died, but the stealing itself can be shown not to have been a grief response since there was pre-death stealing.


I'm just not sure why, when faced with Casey making up the nanny story, LE would be expected to ignore that, not follow up with her about her lies, and instead investigate others. Why would Casey's lies about the imagi-nanny make LE think that Casey and/or Caylee had been abused? I'm also not sure how investigating GA or LA would have brought anything to light. Even if one or the other of them did abuse Casey, the physical evidence of that must be long gone. The DT's OS is not evidence and has not been proven. Casey herself denied that there had been an accident - LE asked her, meaning they were willing to entertain the idea of an accident. Also, how would they investigate a possible accident? Caylee's body wasn't found until way too late to see if she drowned.

I didn't say LE had to ignore investigating the lies, but they do go more then one direction at one time in many investigations.

I understand that we don't know how investigating LA or GA would shed light to anything, but that is my point... we don't know what would've come from investigating the family members further.

 

[Sustained]

[/B]

That is true that none of that happened in this case... but if LE had looked into other scenarios they could've come up with what the DT stated in OS. I mean, we truly don't know if the accident is true, if the murder is true, etc. We just don't, although many of us have our beliefs. But, if LE did investigate other aspects of this case, we may have come up with other information proving more so one of the theories. But, they focused on Casey after day 1. So, we don't know if there is other information out there supporting the drowning or supporting the murder.

I don't think LE would have thought to look at the drowning scenario with no 911 call from anyone in the family. How could they assume an accident when the caretaker of the child told them that the nanny kidnapped Caylee ? FCA was a person of interest from Day 1 b/c LE thought she was hiding something. Not reporting your child missing for 31 days, lying about everything, and the smell of a dead body in your car certainly would make LE narrow their focus quickly. Even with all of the signs implicating FCA, LE continued to investigate a live Caylee for months after she was reported missing.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I do agree her mother is a trigger (not that her denial of Casey's reality throws her into a FIT). I think her mother does a lot that triggers Casey's anger, especially during Caylee's 2nd birthday party and CA doing everything as if she was Caylee's mom (that frustrate me also).

I don't know if her mother's triggering is something that normally is experienced with new mothers (especially single ones that are living with their parents), I do know, like I posted before, my mother irritated me a lot when I had my first daughter. I understand it better now (4 years later), but in the beginning I felt like my mom was giving me "pointers" (I'm being nice.. lol), that she felt I needed the pointers because I didn't know what to do otherwise. Like, she was questioning my ability to be a mother. I know a lot of my friends experienced the same. But, I don't want to say that it's normal (although I think it probably is).

The reality being refused by CA is that they had an opportunity to get FCA out of jail, about 30 seconds into the video. That's when FCA says to put her dad on the phone, visibly very upset. This then amplifies over the course of the remainder of the video, culminating in the point where CA is being handed the phone.

There is a lot of evidence that CA did indeed give "pointers" to FCA, going so far as to label FCA an unfit mother and threaten to take Caylee away from her. Caylee also called CA "mama" on occasion, and was the apple of CA's eye. I also know of other mothers being resentful of such pointers. I think FCA telling LA "Maybe I am just a spiteful b$%^&" is the one truthful statement in all of this from FCA. She took Caylee away out of spite towards her mother, and to solve her problems in having the lifestyle with TL she wanted. :twocents:

 

[beccalecca1]

Thanks Becca for the thorough response. I will make my responses in blue.



I count 17 of 20 traits present. Taking it a step further, scoring each point on a scale of 0-2, that would give her a total score between 32 and 38. A diagnosis of psychopathy is met when the subject scores 30 points or more.

It has been my theory from the moment I heard the verdict read that the jury did not consider or did not understand that Casey Anthony was a sociopath/psychopath, so I appreciate this dialog with you to better understand how this concept of Casey has been formed by those who think the verdict was correct.

:seeya:

I just wanted to add what I think is going on with Casey (MOO).

Casey appears to be highly immature to me, childlike. She lies without realizing the consequences attached to the lies. She craves attention like neglected children do. She appears to be giddy @ inappropriate times, like a child excited for Christmas morning. She steals money without realizing that taking money from someone puts that person in a bind, and usually puts her parents in a bind because they're the ones paying it back (like money is just paper to her and there's an endless supply of paper). I could go on, but I'm sure the idea is understood.

From what I've learned in mental health, when someone has a traumatic event in their childhood happen to them (doesn't have to be sexual abuse, just something their child brain considers traumatic), their mind has a hard time developing further. The brain kinda "sticks" to that moment and new things aren't learned until this person can rationalize the trauma to understand it. Usually you need a lot of counseling to get passed it.

This is just MOO :innocent:

 

[beccalecca1]

I don't think LE would have thought to look at the drowning scenario with no 911 call from anyone in the family. How could they assume an accident when the caretaker of the child told them that the nanny kidnapped Caylee ? FCA was a person of interest from Day 1 b/c LE thought she was hiding something. Not reporting your child missing for 31 days, lying about everything, and the smell of a dead body in your car certainly would make LE narrow their focus quickly. Even with all of the signs implicating FCA, LE continued to investigate a live Caylee for months after she was reported missing.

LE did actually look at a accident scenario even though there was no 911 call (Universal interview). I do think, though, they should've just looked into GA a little more then they did.

 

[BuzzieCat]

I didn't say LE had to ignore investigating the lies, but they do go more then one direction at one time in many investigations.

I understand that we don't know how investigating LA or GA would shed light to anything, but that is my point... we don't know what would've come from investigating the family members further.

LE did talk with all the family members. It's not like they just ignored them and focused 100% on Casey. They were willing to investigate an accident, but Casey gave them nothing to go on and there was no body until much later. I don't see how Casey's lying should have triggered them to deeply investigate other family members for things like sexual abuse. Casey's own statements to them simply didn't give them much to go on except that she was totally lying about everything to do with Caylee. Maybe they should have put "tails" on all the family members, IDK, but I just don't think they had much to work with since Casey wasn't talking and there was no body yet. The family didn't seem to be wealthy, either, so I would think that would take out much of a motive for someone to kidnap the child.

 

[beccalecca1]

LE did talk with all the family members. It's not like they just ignored them and focused 100% on Casey. They were willing to investigate an accident, but Casey gave them nothing to go on and there was no body until much later. I don't see how Casey's lying should have triggered them to deeply investigate other family members for things like sexual abuse. Casey's own statements to them simply didn't give them much to go on except that she was totally lying about everything to do with Caylee. Maybe they should have put "tails" on all the family members, IDK, but I just don't think they had much to work with since Casey wasn't talking and there was no body yet. The family didn't seem to be wealthy, either, so I would think that would take out much of a motive for someone to kidnap the child.

BBM

Casey's lies triggered them to "deeply" investigate her friends, why not deeply investigate the people who they both have lived with all of her life, especially given the fact that she moved out the day Caylee went missing.

I'm taking the sexual abuse out of the equation because although I feel it probably happened, there isn't really anything to back up my beliefs on that.

 

[RANCH]

I don't think LE would have thought to look at the drowning scenario with no 911 call from anyone in the family. How could they assume an accident when the caretaker of the child told them that the nanny kidnapped Caylee ? FCA was a person of interest from Day 1 b/c LE thought she was hiding something. Not reporting your child missing for 31 days, lying about everything, and the smell of a dead body in your car certainly would make LE narrow their focus quickly. Even with all of the signs implicating FCA, LE continued to investigate a live Caylee for months after she was reported missing.

I suppose LE should not "focus" on suspects that the evidence points to.Instead, they should keep an open mind and spent their limited resources looking at any possible reason for a child being missing.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I just wanted to add what I think is going on with Casey (MOO).

Casey appears to be highly immature to me, childlike. She lies without realizing the consequences attached to the lies. She craves attention like neglected children do. She appears to be giddy @ inappropriate times, like a child excited for Christmas morning. She steals money without realizing that taking money from someone puts that person in a bind, and usually puts her parents in a bind because they're the ones paying it back (like money is just paper to her and there's an endless supply of paper). I could go on, but I'm sure the idea is understood.

From what I've learned in mental health, when someone has a traumatic event in their childhood happen to them (doesn't have to be sexual abuse, just something their child brain considers traumatic), their mind has a hard time developing further. The brain kinda "sticks" to that moment and new things aren't learned until this person can rationalize the trauma to understand it. Usually you need a lot of counseling to get passed it.

This is just MOO :innocent:

I'll buy that. There is a sociopath in my recent past (I am sure this has been guessed by many with my ID on this site) who exhibited the SAME child-like characteristics. Whether or not it was because of some traumatic childhood experience, I don't know. Everything that came out of her mouth was b.s. so even though she spoke of sexual abuse as a child, I don't know if it was the truth. My inclination in that case is to conclude it was part of the seduction, to disarm and appear to be innocent.

 

[Sustained]

I suppose LE should not "focus" on suspects that the evidence points to.Instead, they should keep an open mind and spent their limited resources looking at any possible reason for a child being missing.

I think in this case, LE did a lot of both. I'm sure they felt FCA was guilty of something, but they didn't have a body. And the CSI tests on the car taken on 7/16 would take time ...

There were some Caylee sightings after she was reported missing on 7/15. I remember one from the Florida Mall and the girl looked a lot like Caylee. LE had to go down both roads until they were convinced they had a murder. And that happened in Oct '08 when they arrested FCA.

 

[M.James]

I'm sorry to say that I haven't read the thread. Responses are nearing 1300, and I don't have the time it'd take to read them all. I'm sorry if everything I say too closely resembles other answers here, but I wanted to share my opinion in case there might be something interesting to someone.

I disagree with the verdict. This is why:

Evidence: A baby stuffed in trash bags, hidden in a swamp. Hidden. This is enough. Somebody is guilty.
That child was never supposed to be found.
The world was supposed to believe the nanny story.

How can you tell the world that your child has been missing/kidnapped/ gone for 31 days, yet are too dysfunctional to tell the world an accident happened? That can never make sense. You can try to reason it up/down over/under inside-out and upside-down, and it will never make sense. It will never make sense because it's not true (my opinion). If you have to lie about what happened to your baby, then something's not kosher.

To add to that is the idea that Casey sat in jail, and she nor anyone else came forward to tell of this accident (that would have possibly gotten her out of jail) until the baby was found. Until the world knew there was no nanny, until there was no one to blame but Casey (who had the baby in her care).
That 'accident' was created after there appeared to be a murder; only then was it ok to admit there was an accident. Why would there need to be a murder trial if Baez and team knew there was an accident all along?

If all the Anthonys had been involved in this from the beginning this story would not have been told.
If there had been an accidental drowning that they wanted covered up, 911 would not have been called, no nanny, no 31 days. Besides them, who would know the baby was missing?
This is why I say Cindy never knew before the 911 call; they could've gotten away with it if she had never reported it (ok, ok, someone did get away with it, but no one ever had to know about missing Caylee).

 

[RANCH]

I think in this case, LE did a lot of both. I'm sure they felt FCA was guilty of something, but they didn't have a body. And the CSI tests on the car taken on 7/16 would take time ...

There were some Caylee sightings after she was reported missing on 7/15. I remember one from the Florida Mall and the girl looked a lot like Caylee. LE had to go down both roads until they were convinced they had a murder. And that happened in Oct '08 when they arrested FCA.

I believe your right. They did follow up on Caylee sightings.But why didn't LE check for gunshot residue on all Anthony family members? Some one could have shot her right? Why didn't LE check EVERY possible scenario.

 

[gngr~snap]

Interesting to review that interrogation again.

One part of it:



I am still in amazement someone could conclude that she was covering up an accident that her father forced her to lie about.

:waitasec:

Everything about Caylee in the post you quoted is present tense...
I have not.. but, has anyone listened to her for past tense in her initial interviews?
I know at the jail there was past tense... but everything they said IMO was to develop "the con"
Wonder why that wasn't pointed out? I guess it's obvious!
Forest/trees

 

[Baxter]

[/B]

That is true that none of that happened in this case... but if LE had looked into other scenarios they could've come up with what the DT stated in OS. I mean, we truly don't know if the accident is true, if the murder is true, etc. We just don't, although many of us have our beliefs. But, if LE did investigate other aspects of this case, we may have come up with other information proving more so one of the theories. But, they focused on Casey after day 1. So, we don't know if there is other information out there supporting the drowning or supporting the murder.

No offense beccalecca1, but I think by now, everyone knows your feelings on the case.
I don't think think this rehashing and rehashing is going to get us anywhere.

We who believe the verdict was wrong, are still going to believe it was wrong, no matter what anyone was has to say.

LE followed Casey's lead of a kidnapper named ZFG and now her defense and their followers, say they should have focused on a drowning?

 

[roseofsharon]

I just wanted to add what I think is going on with Casey (MOO).

Casey appears to be highly immature to me, childlike. She lies without realizing the consequences attached to the lies. She craves attention like neglected children do. She appears to be giddy @ inappropriate times, like a child excited for Christmas morning. She steals money without realizing that taking money from someone puts that person in a bind, and usually puts her parents in a bind because they're the ones paying it back (like money is just paper to her and there's an endless supply of paper). I could go on, but I'm sure the idea is understood.

From what I've learned in mental health, when someone has a traumatic event in their childhood happen to them (doesn't have to be sexual abuse, just something their child brain considers traumatic), their mind has a hard time developing further. The brain kinda "sticks" to that moment and new things aren't learned until this person can rationalize the trauma to understand it. Usually you need a lot of counseling to get passed it.

This is just MOO :innocent:

In my 20 years experience working in mental health, there are also those who are just evil individuals -- nothing has happened to them in their past to make them this way -- they are just evil and derive great satisfaction from hurting others, emotionally, as well as physically. MOO

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks. One point that I see as a common thread in your responses is an idea that psychopathy is a sort of 24/7 manifestation, not in the control of a psychopath. I'd like to give my :twocents: on this.

There are famous examples of how this is not the case. Serial killers like John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy were able to carry on respected lives while running up their murder total. Gacy was a model citizen in prison, loved by all for his impressive ability to cook and use spices. He got released from prison for good conduct, and then promptly began murdering women who he felt were promiscuous, 29 in all.

The psychopath is VERY good at fooling people.

There are triggers for their rage, different with each one. Bundy saw his ex-girlfriend in the women he killed, they all looked like her. Gacy was harboring suppressed homosexual/transexual urges that his father smothered down during his youth, and took out his aggression on promiscuous women. They all have their triggers. And then, as you point out, they are controlled by their mental illness and can't restrain doing the deed.

With Casey, the runway up to this incident is brief and difficult to analyze. The major clues to what kind of person she is are of course her pathological lying, lack of empathy, irresponsibility and coldheartedness displayed during the jailhouse conversations.

MOO of course but something triggered Casey's psychopathy on that fateful day of June 16. There was the fight with CA the night before, and ultimately this led to a desire to get even. I also think it was relevant that TL had stated to her that he only wanted boys, not a girl. Susan Smith killed her two boys for a similar reason.

Why or why does everyone keep leaving off the thousands and thousands of dollars she stole over quite a few months from her family while living with them and pretending she had a job?:great: That kind of manipulative behaviour is part of their everyday life.

And I don't believe any one thing "triggered" CFCA on June 16th. Caylee had been cramping her style for quite some time, she was now learning to speak and express herself and since sociopaths can do things just as easily dead cold as they can do in a temper, why wouldn't she just say to Caylee that day - well you are just too much trouble - and kill her? She didn't give anything else much thought so why do we assume she "had feelings" for Caylee? I mean - I know we "want" to believe that - but is it necessarily true, when she was alone with her and not being an extension of her "See what a good mother I am" personality?

 

[logicalgirl]

No offense beccalecca1, but I think by now, everyone knows your feelings on the case.
I don't think think this rehashing and rehashing is going to get us anywhere.

We who believe the verdict was wrong, are still going to believe it was wrong, no matter what anyone was has to say.

LE followed Casey's lead of a kidnapper named ZFG and now her defense and their followers, say they should have focused on a drowning?

Because................???????? Waiting........for something beyond CFCA's one and only statement to the LE about the disappearance of Caylee?????

 

[onewick]

LE did actually look at a accident scenario even though there was no 911 call (Universal interview). I do think, though, they should've just looked into GA a little more then they did.

Why? Because Casey said to 3 years later?