IL - Adam Toledo, 13, shot and killed by Chicago police officer, 29 Mar 2021

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APR 17, 2021
Cook County prosecutor blamed for errant in-court description of Adam Toledo shooting is placed on leave - Chicago Tribune
A day after Cook County prosecutors partially disavowed statements they made in court about the police killing of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, the office declined to elaborate on what exactly went wrong and why.

But the Assistant State’s Attorney who made the statements was placed on leave Friday, a spokeswoman for the office confirmed Saturday morning.

[...]

Watched in aggregate, the videos show Toledo apparently tossing a gun away a moment before the officer fires, and his hands appear empty and raised at the moment he is shot.

[...]

Still unclear: How many people in the prosecutor’s office had access to footage of the shooting; how much footage they could access; who signed off on the language Murphy used in court; and why they waited nearly a week before clarifying their statement.

[...]
You see this is where you do substantially better than other countries.
He was placed on leave.
That could take years in other countries.
You guys just get in there and DO IT! Immediately.
It's huge.
Kudos.
 
Gunfire Locators: Expense & Benefit?
I hadn't even known such a system existed until you mentioned it. It sounds wonderful, when it works as it should. There might be a less expensive way to do it.
@kittythehare That's the catch - when it works as it should, to alert LE when residents are too scared to call 911, etc.

Expense?
In San Antonio TX, 2017, "In the 15 months it’s been in operation, officers have made only four arrests and confiscated seven weapons that can be attributed to ShotSpotter technology, Police Chief William McManus said.
"...The technology itself cost about $378,000. But the city spent another $168,000 on officer overtime for the program, the chief said.
"That’s $136,500 per arrest
."

Public Safety Benefit?
"The four suspects were arrested on charges of discharging a firearm, a Class A misdemeanor, the SAPD’s Sgt. Jesse Salame said. One of the suspects also was charged with possession of narcotics.
There was no known shooting victim in any of those four cases, Salame said.
" bbm Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

I wonder if these numbers are typical of results in other cities. Is the system worthwhile at that price?

Apparently the system worked to alert LE to gunfire occurring where Adam Toledo and/or pal were shooting at random cars, iirc.
 
Gunfire Locators: Expense & Benefit?
@kittythehare That's the catch - when it works as it should, to alert LE when residents are too scared to call 911, etc.

Expense?
In San Antonio TX, 2017, "In the 15 months it’s been in operation, officers have made only four arrests and confiscated seven weapons that can be attributed to ShotSpotter technology, Police Chief William McManus said.
"...The technology itself cost about $378,000. But the city spent another $168,000 on officer overtime for the program, the chief said.
"That’s $136,500 per arrest
."

Public Safety Benefit?
"The four suspects were arrested on charges of discharging a firearm, a Class A misdemeanor, the SAPD’s Sgt. Jesse Salame said. One of the suspects also was charged with possession of narcotics.
There was no known shooting victim in any of those four cases, Salame said.
" bbm Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

I wonder if these numbers are typical of results in other cities. Is the system worthwhile at that price?

Apparently the system worked to alert LE to gunfire occurring where Adam Toledo and/or pal were shooting at random cars, iirc.
It's way too expensive.
But with agencies like FBI, CIA etc with laboratory facilities and big research budgets working on it, if they did, they should be able to find a methodology to graph and categorise loud noises in shady areas or any area.. my mind's eye sees earthquake type monitors.
It doesn't look like rocket science from here... Build a prototype and put one in every police or community watch building with triggers.
That would not even require manpower from LE, a techy person cold maintain it..
I'm sure it is indeed often the case that local residents are too fearful to call it in.
Thanks for your research.
 
APR 18, 2021
Lori Lightfoot under pressure to reform police after video of Adam Toledo shooting is released - CNNPolitics
The city is in the midst of another weekend of protests over the actions of police, and Lightfoot is under pressure to back major reforms to a police department facing scrutiny over a series of controversial uses of violence.

Vigil, ‘peace walk’ held in Little Village after police shooting of Adam Toledo | WGN-TV
A “peace walk” will be held Sunday in Little Village, the predominantly Latino southwest Chicago neighborhood where Adam lived and was killed, around 5 p.m. A gathering on the city’s north side will address racism, and other vigils are being held around the city to remember Adam and others killed by police.

Adam Toledo shooting: Thousands march, protest Chicago police killing in Little Village - ABC7 Chicago
Thousands walked through the city's Little Village neighborhood Sunday, demanding justice for 13-year-old Adam Toledo, who was shot and killed by Chicago police.

Chicago's Little Village divided over police shooting of 13-year-old - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
Adam Toledo’s mother stood in front of a makeshift memorial in an alley where her 13-year-old son was fatally shot by a Chicago police officer.

ET, 44, wore dark glasses and didn’t speak to the half-dozen onlookers. But Toledo, who lives a few blocks away in the neighborhood of La Villita, Little Village, has said through her attorney that she feels judged by the community since her son’s death last month.

So she surveyed the candles, bouquets and signs calling for justice on Saturday, cried quietly, and left.

Adam Toledo's video release leads to vigil, peace walk in Chicago | wtsp.com
f38e77c4-3e09-4d6b-9271-77f3b2505f9c_1140x641.jpg


Protesters march near Mayor Lori Lightfoot's home in Logan Square to protest the fatal shooting by Chicago police of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, Friday, April 16, 2021.

“The main motivation to be here is to show solidarity with the pain and grief of the family,” said KT, of North Lawndale, who attended the peace walk on Sunday. “... We failed our children through the system we have in place. Adam was lost on so many levels.”

Crowd gathers in Chicago to remember Adam Toledo | Sandhills Express
Organizers said the purpose is to remember Adam, and also to talk about the bigger need of demanding more resources for the Little Village community.

They do not want any more young people to end up in Adam’s situation or a victim of gun violence.
 
He stopped, dropped the gun and raised his empty hands before he was shot and murdered by the cop.

There's been a lot of questionable shootings by LE but in this case I think the circumstances will vindicate the officer.

Normally, video records 25-30 frames per second. So when we see that still of Adam with his hands up it freezes him in that pose as if he had been standing like that as the officer ran up to him. In actual fact, not even half a second prior he had a weapon in his right hand and was a quarter turn away from the officer. He moved counter clockwise to face the officer after ditching the gun but by doing so his right hand was not visible until he raised it in an act of submission. But in that split second, I see how the officer saw it as an act of intent. Hesitating to parse that information could have been the last thought the officer ever had.

I feel for Adam's family and the loss of their child and I feel for the officer who shot him. There are many instances where LE should be held accountable for the deaths of civilians because of negligent or even criminal behavior but I don't think this is one of them. Not a popular opinion, I know, and not usually my response to officer-involved killings.
 
I want to know what a 13 year-old was keeping company with the 21 year-old. More importantly, was Adam's parents at all aware of the fact he was keeping company with a 21 year-old?

This senseless tragedy was totally preventable.
And that he was in a gang?

I'm getting pilloried on multiple sites for saying this was probably not unjustified.
 
There's been a lot of questionable shootings by LE but in this case I think the circumstances will vindicate the officer.

Normally, video records 25-30 frames per second. So when we see that still of Adam with his hands up it freezes him in that pose as if he had been standing like that as the officer ran up to him. In actual fact, not even half a second prior he had a weapon in his right hand and was a quarter turn away from the officer. He moved counter clockwise to face the officer after ditching the gun but by doing so his right hand was not visible until he raised it in an act of submission. But in that split second, I see how the officer saw it as an act of intent. Hesitating to parse that information could have been the last thought the officer ever had.

I feel for Adam's family and the loss of their child and I feel for the officer who shot him. There are many instances where LE should be held accountable for the deaths of civilians because of negligent or even criminal behavior but I don't think this is one of them. Not a popular opinion, I know, and not usually my response to officer-involved killings.

I share your opinion. I don't know how unpopular it may be (I gave up trying to be with the "in" crowd long ago). The officer had only a split second to determine if the gun in AT's hand was going to be fired at him or tossed (and AT wasn't very quick to stop running when he'd been instructed to do so at least twice).
 
In which world is shooting a 13 year old justified?
When the 13 year old has a gun in his hand and appears to be turning to point it at you. It's a split second decision whether you want to live or die. It's not a world where you know their age or their intention prior to the fact. It's the *REAL* world where kids that are WAY too young to make these decisions decide to try to be important and carry guns. A world where kids think its "cool" to identify with some kind of gang to make themselves feel "worthy". ...where they think if they listen to some kind of gang "associate/advisor" that they might think is important to their future , that they'll maybe gain some kind of "street cred" if they try to take a gun and run with it and try to hide it - and hope to get off of any charges because they're a minor. That's the world we live in. Now ask yourself if we fix that kind of world by changing the way we police that world, or if we more effectively change that world by changing the way society raises their kids and how they perceive what is truly right and wrong in the world in which we actually live.
 
When the 13 year old has a gun in his hand and appears to be turning to point it at you. It's a split second decision whether you want to live or die. It's not a world where you know their age or their intention prior to the fact. It's the *REAL* world where kids that are WAY too young to make these decisions decide to try to be important and carry guns. A world where kids think its "cool" to identify with some kind of gang to make themselves feel "worthy". ...where they think if they listen to some kind of gang "associate/advisor" that they might think is important to their future , that they'll maybe gain some kind of "street cred" if they try to take a gun and run with it and try to hide it - and hope to get off of any charges because they're a minor. That's the world we live in. Now ask yourself if we fix that kind of world by changing the way we police that world, or if we more effectively change that world by changing the way society raises their kids and how they perceive what is truly right and wrong in the world in which we actually live.
No, the rest of the world do not live in that world. We are not allowed to talk about the elephant in the room, that other western countries do not have. Nowhere else in the first world have kids running around with guns, because it is culturally imbued that guns are necessary or indicate freedom.
 
No, the rest of the world do not live in that world. We are not allowed to talk about the elephant in the room, that other western countries do not have. Nowhere else in the first world have kids running around with guns, because it is culturally imbued that guns are necessary or indicate freedom.
I'm not sure that I understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you saying that other places in the world don't need to teach their children to respect the right of human life?
 
"Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. Therefore, in this Court, at least, it is not a condition of immunity that one in that situation should pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant rather than to kill him." - Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in Brown v. United States (1921)

Would that apply here?
 
There's been a lot of questionable shootings by LE but in this case I think the circumstances will vindicate the officer.

Normally, video records 25-30 frames per second. So when we see that still of Adam with his hands up it freezes him in that pose as if he had been standing like that as the officer ran up to him. In actual fact, not even half a second prior he had a weapon in his right hand and was a quarter turn away from the officer. He moved counter clockwise to face the officer after ditching the gun but by doing so his right hand was not visible until he raised it in an act of submission. But in that split second, I see how the officer saw it as an act of intent. Hesitating to parse that information could have been the last thought the officer ever had.

I feel for Adam's family and the loss of their child and I feel for the officer who shot him. There are many instances where LE should be held accountable for the deaths of civilians because of negligent or even criminal behavior but I don't think this is one of them. Not a popular opinion, I know, and not usually my response to officer-involved killings.
Very well articulated and I am if the same opinion.
 
An officer must fulfil certain criteria prior to shooting.
He must have a clear sight, for one thing.
I really think we simply must await the investigation in this case to find out whether he observed all required protocols.
I suspect he did from what I can glean from the footage.

Adam was just 13.
I reject any and all opinions suggesting he 'wasn't reared right'.
I feel it to be victim blaming.

There are 13year old and younger tearaways in every walk of life in every country in the world. It's just awful to see headlines criticising his grieving and devastated mother who in all Likelihood did everything in her power to keep him in the straight and narrow.
And failed.
I blame the that was with him and his gang for even attempting to recruit a child.
They withheld that child's identity even after they knew he was dead. They all need to rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

As @finley said.. the allure of the gang to a very young and probably highly immature child is almost all consuming.
We call it coercive control.
If charges are put forth, let it be on their heads, not the officer, a devastated man who did all he could to save Adam.
The communities must take back their streets or more child soldiers will be recruited abused terrorised and sacrificed.
If blame is to be apportioned, let it be apportioned where it belongs.
And let everybody learn and guard their children while working with their community leaders and local LE.

He was used and abused before his death and following his death, that makes them the worst kind of evil.
 
The U.S. Supreme Court has said an officer's fear for their life in the heat of the moment matters, even if in hindsight it turns out they weren't in danger. Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote in a 1989 ruling that shaped the legal landscape that the “calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation."

It takes the brain about three-fourths of a second to react to a perceived threat, said Chris Burbank, a former police chief in Salt Lake City who is now with the Center for Policing Equity. Most police can then draw a gun and fire two accurate rounds in 1.5 seconds, so the pivotal portion of a confrontation can be over in less than three seconds.
...
The often-used “show me your hands!” command can unintentionally accelerate a confrontation. The motions of a person trying to obey can appear at first like the moves someone makes to start an attack, said Von Kliem, a former police officer and director of consulting division for the Force Science Institute. Some in law enforcement-training circles have had concerns about how the phrase affects a situation since the mid-1990s, though it's still often used without causing serious problems.
Teen's death puts focus on split-second police decisions

Journalists are responsible for creating the first draft of history, quickly. To do this, the profession has routines and norms that help it produce news in a systematic way. Breaking news reporters often rely on the accounts and statements made by official sources. This often includes the narratives and statements put forward by official sources – politicians, police and official spokespeople. These are people journalists may work with regularly; they are often more accessible under the pressure of a deadline – especially if a victim’s friends and family are hard to reach or less willing to speak to the press. And even if officials are wrong or say something defamatory, a journalist can often report what they say with legal impunity. All of this gives police an opportunity to shape the initial version of the event – and it gets their version of the story into the public consciousness before victims, families and their supporters are able to. But often they do so in a way that is incomplete, misleading or presented for strategic reasons. Official statements may, intentionally or not, withhold or omit information. In Toledo’s case, the original statement given to media on the day of the shooting mentioned that “one armed offender,” a “male,” fled from police and a “confrontation” took place. “The officer fired his weapon striking the offender in the chest.” There is no mention that, as later emerged, it appears that the gun was tossed and Toledo was raising his hands. The incident report listed Toledo as a “John Doe” and between the ages of 18 and 25 – and thus failed to reveal that Toledo was a child.
English is 'riddled' with gun metaphors. Let's stop using them | Sports Grind Entertainment

Another tragedy in Chicago: so sad...
upload_2021-4-20_8-38-58.jpeg
It’s about time we take a stand. We have to put down these guns,” said Lawanda McMullen, Adams’ grandmother. “It just don’t make no sense. A 7-year-old baby lost her life.”

“I know that Jaslyn will not die in vain. This right here is the beginning of the change we need,” said Johnny Adams, Jaslyn Adams’ grandfather. “It’s time for a change. Change in our neighborhoods, our communities, our systems, everything needs to change. And it starts today.”
Killing Of 7-Year-Old Jaslyn Adams Must Be A Wake-Up Call To End Gun Violence, Family Says: 'It's About Time We Take A Stand'
 
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APR 19, 2021
Ruben Roman, with Adam Toledo night of fatal shooting, released from jail | WGN-TV
The man, who police say was with Adam Toledo the night he was shot and killed by a Chicago police officer, has been released from Cook County Jail.

Ruben Roman, 21, posted bond and is now on electronic monitoring.

[...]

Man with Adam Toledo when police killed 13-year-old posts bond, released from custody - Chicago Sun-Times
Ruben Roman, 21, was placed on electronic monitoring after he posted $15,000 bond Saturday for charges tied to Toledo’s shooting along with a $25,000 bond for a separate weapons case, the Cook County Sheriff’s Department said Monday.

APR 20, 2021
Latino groups want DOJ probe of police shooting of Adam Toledo in Chicago (nbcnews.com)
[...]

The groups, who are holding a press conference on Tuesday, are also urging that Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot speed up court-supervised changes to policing in Chicago, end foot pursuits by officers, and invest federal COVID relief dollars to help young people in the neighborhood where Toledo lived and died.

Leaders calling for changes include the Hispanic Lawyers Association of Illinois, the Puerto Rican Bar Association of Illinois, the American Bar Association's Commission on Hispanic Legal Rights & Responsibilities, and the Pilsen Law Center, where the press conference is taking place.

[...]
 

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