IL - Adam Toledo, 13, shot and killed by Chicago police officer, 29 Mar 2021

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APR 19, 2021
Adam Toledo shooting: Chicago cop speaks with Cook County prosecutors, sources say - Chicago Tribune
The Chicago police officer who fatally shot 13-year-old Adam Toledo has given a statement to Cook County prosecutors as part of their review of the night the teen was killed, sources told the Tribune.

[...]

Stillman’s attorney, Tim Grace, declined to comment, except to say he does not believe prosecutors have a basis to charge Stillman in connection with the shooting.

[...]

Roman was ordered held on $150,000 bond for the new charges, and $250,000 for a probation violation, records show. On Saturday, the Chicago Community Bond Fund paid the necessary $40,000 for him to be released on an electronic ankle bracelet, records show.

[...]

“We are unable to accept every request that we receive, so we often prioritize cases that are connected to social justice movements, including the movement to end police violence,” Reynolds said.

And they viewed Roman’s case as fitting in with that mission, she said.

“We are aware that the city will continue to use him as a scapegoat for the (killing) of Adam Toledo, which was committed by the Chicago Police Department,” she said.

[...]

At a routine hearing Monday in Roman’s child-endangerment case, Judge Edward Maloney raised his eyebrows at the amount the charitable fund had paid.

“A lot of people sitting in jail could use some of that money, I bet,” he said during a videoconferenced court date.



[...]
 
PommyMommy said:
APR 19, 2021
Adam Toledo shooting: Chicago cop speaks with Cook County prosecutors, sources say - Chicago Tribune
The Chicago police officer who fatally shot 13-year-old Adam Toledo has given a statement to Cook County prosecutors as part of their review of the night the teen was killed, sources told the Tribune.

[...]

Stillman’s attorney, Tim Grace, declined to comment, except to say he does not believe prosecutors have a basis to charge Stillman in connection with the shooting.

[...]

Roman was ordered held on $150,000 bond for the new charges, and $250,000 for a probation violation, records show. On Saturday, the Chicago Community Bond Fund paid the necessary $40,000 for him to be released on an electronic ankle bracelet, records show.

[...]

“We are unable to accept every request that we receive, so we often prioritize cases that are connected to social justice movements, including the movement to end police violence,” Reynolds said.

And they viewed Roman’s case as fitting in with that mission, she said.

“We are aware that the city will continue to use him as a scapegoat for the (killing) of Adam Toledo, which was committed by the Chicago Police Department,” she said.

[...]

At a routine hearing Monday in Roman’s child-endangerment case, Judge Edward Maloney raised his eyebrows at the amount the charitable fund had paid.

“A lot of people sitting in jail could use some of that money, I bet,” he said during a videoconferenced court date.



[...]
Click to expand...

So now assisting the adult who put Adam on that street with a gun in his hand is a suitable mission for the Chicago Community Bond Fund? This angers me a great deal. Adam was used by an adult, who dumped a freshly used weapon on him in the midst of eluding police, gets him killed and now that man is the scapegoat? I have a very different view.

:mad:
 
Latino community leaders and attorneys are asking the Department of Justice to investigate the fatal shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo by a Chicago police officer.

The groups, who are holding a press conference on Tuesday, are also urging that Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot speed up court-supervised changes to policing in Chicago, end foot pursuits by officers, and invest federal COVID relief dollars to help young people in the neighborhood where Toledo lived and died. Latino groups want DOJ probe of Adam Toledo shooting by Chicago police
 
tlcya said:
Latino community leaders and attorneys are asking the Department of Justice to investigate the fatal shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo by a Chicago police officer.

The groups, who are holding a press conference on Tuesday, are also urging that Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot speed up court-supervised changes to policing in Chicago, end foot pursuits by officers, and invest federal COVID relief dollars to help young people in the neighborhood where Toledo lived and died. Latino groups want DOJ probe of Adam Toledo shooting by Chicago police
Click to expand...

So now they want to end foot pursuits ? Are these people insane?!!
They could have killed someone when they were shooting at that car. What if a child got killed? What if their family member had been in that car?
People are just being ridiculous at this point!
 
Finlay said:
When the 13 year old has a gun in his hand and appears to be turning to point it at you. It's a split second decision whether you want to live or die. It's not a world where you know their age or their intention prior to the fact. It's the *REAL* world where kids that are WAY too young to make these decisions decide to try to be important and carry guns. A world where kids think its "cool" to identify with some kind of gang to make themselves feel "worthy". ...where they think if they listen to some kind of gang "associate/advisor" that they might think is important to their future , that they'll maybe gain some kind of "street cred" if they try to take a gun and run with it and try to hide it - and hope to get off of any charges because they're a minor. That's the world we live in. Now ask yourself if we fix that kind of world by changing the way we police that world, or if we more effectively change that world by changing the way society raises their kids and how they perceive what is truly right and wrong in the world in which we actually live.
Click to expand...
I’m feeling the emotions of the GF verdict. I’ve stayed out of the threads with only a few posts here and there. Until today. Of course, I’ve followed the case from day one. Something about the outrage really stressed me out so I opted for other discussions. I feel relieved but sad. We as a society must do better for our children. We are their leaders. Our children will someday be their children’s leaders.
What you gonna do
You go and give the boy a gun
Now there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run to

When he hold it in his hand
He feel mighty he feel strong
Now there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run

One day he may come back
Repay us for what we've done
Then where you gonna run to
Where you gonna run

But one fine day
All our problems will be solved
Bang Bang Bang
We'll shoot him down

Give him drugs and give him candy
Anything to make him think he's happy
And he won't ever come for us
He won't ever come

But if he does
And if there's no one else around
Bang Bang Bang

We'll shoot him down
If he preys only on his neighbours

Brothers, sisters and friends
We'll consider it a favour
We'll consider justice done

But if he comes for you or me
And we can place a gun in his hand
Bang Bang bang

We'll shoot him dead
What you go and do
You go and give the boy a gun

Now there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run
Now we'll all be at his mercy

If he decides to hunt us down
'Cause there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run

If he wants the chances that you took from him
And nothing that you own
Then there'll be no place to run to
There'll be no place to run

And if he finds himself to be
A reflection of us all
Bang Bang Bang
He'll shoot us down
Before you can raise your eyes to read
The writing on the wall
Bang Bang Bang
He'll shoot you down
Before you can bridge the gulf between
And embrace him in your arms
Bang Bang Bang
He'll shoot you down
 
Last edited:
imstilla.grandma said:
I’m feeling the emotions of the GF verdict. I’ve stayed out of the threads with only a few posts here and there. Until today. Of course, I’ve followed the case from day one. Something about the outrage really stressed me out so I opted for other discussions. I feel relieved but sad. We as a society must do better for our children. We are their leaders. Our children will someday be their children’s leaders.
What you gonna do
You go and give the boy a gun
Now there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run to

When he hold it in his hand
He feel mighty he feel strong
Now there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run

One day he may come back
Repay us for what we've done
Then where you gonna run to
Where you gonna run

But one fine day
All our problems will be solved
Bang Bang Bang
We'll shoot him down

Give him drugs and give him candy
Anything to make him think he's happy
And he won't ever come for us
He won't ever come

But if he does
And if there's no one else around
Bang Bang Bang

We'll shoot him down
If he preys only on his neighbours

Brothers, sisters and friends
We'll consider it a favour
We'll consider justice done

But if he comes for you or me
And we can place a gun in his hand
Bang Bang bang

We'll shoot him dead
What you go and do
You go and give the boy a gun

Now there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run
Now we'll all be at his mercy

If he decides to hunt us down
'Cause there ain't no place to run to
Ain't no place to run

If he wants the chances that you took from him
And nothing that you own
Then there'll be no place to run to
There'll be no place to run

And if he finds himself to be
A reflection of us all
Bang Bang Bang
He'll shoot us down
Before you can raise your eyes to read
The writing on the wall
Bang Bang Bang
He'll shoot you down
Before you can bridge the gulf between
And embrace him in your arms
Bang Bang Bang
He'll shoot you down
Click to expand...
Thank you for this.
 
MajorHoople said:
"Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. Therefore, in this Court, at least, it is not a condition of immunity that one in that situation should pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant rather than to kill him." - Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in Brown v. United States (1921)
Would that apply here?
Click to expand...
@MajorHoople (Warning, short post coming up;)) Yes imo.

Brown v. United States (1921) - Wikipedia
 
@PommyMommy linked this article a few days ago.
I hadn't read it.

Stillman, who served in Afghanistan with the Marines and is a staff sergeant in the Selected Marine Corps Reserve, joined the police department in 2015, according to an incident report from the shooting.


During his six years with the department, Stillman has been named in at least four use-of-force reports, according to data collected by the Invisible Institute, a Chicago-based group that tracks police misconduct. In each report, the subjects were listed as Black men in their late 20s or older. The reports include a takedown/emergency handcuffing in 2017, and wristlocks, takedowns/emergency handcuffings and strikes with an open hand in 2018 and 2019.

Alison Flowers, who heads the institute’s investigations, called the number of reports “concerning,” adding, “Usually, we see that level of activity more over the course of a long career, not in a matter of just six years.”

Critics of Chicago police call for charges in shooting of Adam Toledo
 
kittythehare said:
@PommyMommy linked this article a few days ago.
I hadn't read it.

Stillman, who served in Afghanistan with the Marines and is a staff sergeant in the Selected Marine Corps Reserve, joined the police department in 2015, according to an incident report from the shooting.


During his six years with the department, Stillman has been named in at least four use-of-force reports, according to data collected by the Invisible Institute, a Chicago-based group that tracks police misconduct. In each report, the subjects were listed as Black men in their late 20s or older. The reports include a takedown/emergency handcuffing in 2017, and wristlocks, takedowns/emergency handcuffings and strikes with an open hand in 2018 and 2019.

Alison Flowers, who heads the institute’s investigations, called the number of reports “concerning,” adding, “Usually, we see that level of activity more over the course of a long career, not in a matter of just six years.”

Critics of Chicago police call for charges in shooting of Adam Toledo
Click to expand...
I am quite sure that any person that heads an *invisible* institute that tracks police "misconduct" is completely expected to make this kind of statement. I would like to dig a little deeper into a *FULL* set of statistics that truly represent ALL of the people involved in this specific incident before I decide to draw a conclusion.
 
Finlay said:
I am quite sure that any person that heads an *invisible* institute that tracks police "misconduct" is completely expected to make this kind of statement. I would like to dig a
little deeper into a *FULL* set of statistics that truly represent ALL of the people involved in this specific incide
nt befo
re I decide to draw a conclusion.
Click to expand...
Help Yourself
Board of Directors — Invisible Institute


Partners — Invisible Institute

Invisible Institute

All Investigations — Invisible Institute

Citizens Police Data Project — Invisible Institute

About y/pp — Invisible Institute
 
imstilla.grandma said:
Column: A conversation with civil rights lawyer Sheila Bedi about policing and the death of Adam Toledo
Click to expand...

Actually, in theory... allowing the the suspect to flee could prevent the escalation of an "armed situation". So... let's say the next officer in same situation allows the suspect to flee (confrontation avoided and no lives lost, this is what we all want... no loss of life!). But what happens to the gun after that? What if this young suspect arrives at home and decides to play with the gun or show it to siblings and friends but, in the midst of this, the gun fires and lives are lost? Or the suspect takes it to school and the gun accidentally fires and lives are lost? Or the suspect gives it to his out-on-bail-buddy who proceeds to carryout other crimes and lives are lost?? Are there any statistics on "the gun that gets away"??
 
APR 20, 2021
Adam Toledo: Latino groups call for DOJ probe of police shooting (usatoday.com)
"Faith and trust in the police department are in short supply in the Latino community," said Pilsen Law Center founder Arturo Jáuregui at a Tuesday news conference. "An objective investigation conducted by the Justice Department would send a message to our community that this time is different."

Latino leaders want feds to investigate shooting of Adam Toledo - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com)
The group called on U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland to conduct an investigation into the “circumstances that led to and resulted in” Adam’s death and provided three points the probe should focus on:

• The DOJ should help “establish clear procedures and policies” outlining when a police officer should engage in a foot pursuit and set rules for disciplining officers who don’t follow those newly outline procedures.

APR 21, 2021
Fatal Police Shooting Of Adam Toledo Renews Debate Over Foot Chases | Here & Now (wbur.org)
Foot pursuits that end with a police shooting have proven difficult for oversight agencies. Some experts say foot chases should be used less often.
 
kittythehare said:
Help Yourself
Board of Directors — Invisible Institute


Partners — Invisible Institute

Invisible Institute

All Investigations — Invisible Institute

Citizens Police Data Project — Invisible Institute

About y/pp — Invisible Institute
Click to expand...
Thank you for the links. I'll try to read the the info tomorrow. Is this "Invisible" source the only one you can cite though?
kittythehare said:
Help Yourself
Board of Directors — Invisible Institute


Partners — Invisible Institute

Invisible Institute

All Investigations — Invisible Institute

Citizens Police Data Project — Invisible Institute

About y/pp — Invisible Institute
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info! I'm sure I've never heard of this group and my initial take on them - based solely on their name - was that they sounded like some relatively "sketchy" group that likely had some hidden agenda. I was wrong. This group does seem to be doing some great data collection. I'm a little surprised though that someone says four use of force complaints is a high number. That may well be an accurate statement but (in MY opinion) it doesn't seem overly surprising for an officer having worked Six years as a beat cop in the heart/lower west side of Chicago. I wonder how many overall "officer/citizen interactions" (traffic stops, questionings, investigations, arrests, emergency/urgent responses, etc) he's had in six years there & what the demographics of those interactions would look like.
 
Finlay said:
Thank you for the links. I'll try to read the the info tomorrow. Is this "Invisible" source the only one you can cite though?

Thanks for the info! I'm sure I've never heard of this group and my initial take on them - based solely on their name - was that they sounded like some relatively "sketchy" group that likely had some hidden agenda. I was wrong. This group does seem to be doing some great data collection. I'm a little surprised though that someone says four use of force complaints is a high number. That may well be an accurate statement but (in MY opinion) it doesn't seem overly surprising for an officer having worked Six years as a beat cop in the heart/lower west side of Chicago. I wonder how many overall "officer/citizen interactions" (traffic stops, questionings, investigations, arrests, emergency/urgent responses, etc) he's had in six years there & what the demographics of those interactions would look like.
Click to expand...
Thanks Finn.
I checked them out prior to quoting them.
LA times mentioned them in the article I quoted.
I had not heard of them before either.
Interesting work.
 
What happens when the criminals know that the cops aren’t chasing and there’s no penalty for fleeing? Get ready for even more shoplifting, thefts, muggings and robberies. Not only that, but in Chicago almost all of them will be armed and ready. Bodies are going to stack up, because they know cops can't engage in a foot pursuit. jmo
 
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