IL IL - Judith Anderson, 15, Chicago, 16 Aug 1957

[wfgodot]

Not suggesting anything of the sort; I am barely familiar with the real facts of the matter. I'm just discussing common phenomena in cases where a person or persons may have come under suspicion for a length of time, and, say, then retained the services of a high-powered attorney who might insist that a suspect either be charged, or cleared.

In Chicago, especially in days gone by, one's alderman or ward boss could assist in a number of matters.

 

[scriptgirl]

But what did the Abbatacola's have to give in return-that is what you have to ask yourself. That is why I wonder if they were "connected"

 

[wfgodot]

They may have been. A pizza business in the city might have had its affiliations. But I think a more likely route would have been the alderman or ward boss. Favors granted, favors returned, etc. And the police had had plenty of time to bring charges. Now, about lie detectors, I suspect their worthiness altogether, so A. failing or passing is to me indicative of very little. It's just that police would grant a third one that troubles.

 

[shadowangel]

As to the question of the body being cut up---This was fairly common in cases where the killer was inexperienced, panicked, and attempted to dispose of the remains. Cutting up the body, in the mind of the killer, might make it more difficult to identify, but in the hurry to be seperated from the act the killer doesnt complete the 'job' (as possibly evidenced by the state of the body). There being two containers used in this case might point to the killer being assisted in the disposal of the body.
Certainly this may not be the case here, but it does fit with the 'crime of passion' scenario.

 

[Mia]

Just a couple of things I noticed. It was reported that Judith called her parents from Elena's at around 11:15pm on the night of her disappearance to ask if she could stay longer to finish the movie they were watching. So we know she was alive and not under duress at that time.

As far as the screams and the heartbreaking cry being heard, I'm a little confused. I believe it says the cries were heard on August 27th - wouldn't this be days after Judith's body was found? So how could the cries heard be connected with her? Or is the August 27th date the day the report of the witnesses' testimony was taken?

I'm also leaning toward Abbatacola involvement. All of those brothers - if one harmed Judith it's likely others were involved in the cover-up/disposing of the body. Also, if one did harm Judith I find it unlikely the whole family didn't know about it, with 8 people living in a one-floor apartment I feel it would be difficult to keep any kind of secret.

Finally, I wonder where exactly Judith was dismembered. I project like that would cause quite a mess, and one would need a fair amount of privacy. Did any of the Abbatacoloa brothers work at or have connections to a place that could be used for such activities? But if so, you'd think there would have been quite a bit of blood evidence left behind, even with a clean-up.

 

[wfgodot]

This fellow was suspected by the Chicago populace at the time:

"A short time after Anderson's [sic] murder, police detained teenager Barry Cook, suspected of strangling a middle-aged victim....(the) evidence was flimsy and Cook was acquitted of murder at trial, but he subsequently drew an 11-year sentence for aggravated assault and attempted rape in another case. Speculation was rampant concerning Cook's possible guilt [in the unsolved Andersen and Grimes sisters' murders], but no evidence was ever found to link him to these crimes."

Michael Newton, "The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes." Checkmark Books, 2004. Page 62.

 

[scriptgirl]

Hmm-why was he suspected exactly? Is he still living?

 

[Chrishope]

A bit of info on ENARCO motor oil. It was a trademark of the National Refining Co., Cleveland OH. A subsidiary was The Canadian Oil Co., which distributed the same products in Canada. The Canadian Co. became independent in 1938.

National Refining was bought out by Ashland Oil in 1950. I do not know if the ENARCO brand continued beyond 1950 or not. If not, this may be why police couldn't find a can to show witnesses. The police probably were looking for a can to buy or borrow from local oil suppliers. They probably didn't go around asking machine shops or garages if they had such cans.

I doubt the cans were all that rare or unusual, in used condition.

http://www.enarco.com/home.htm


My question is why were the drum and can sealed in such a way that they'd float? I'd have punched holes in the can to make them sink.

 

[Chrishope]

I don't think it's fair to suggest the Abbatacola family was involved - there simply isn't any evidence of that.

Re-capping what we know;

Judith made a call to her mom at 11pm (8/16/57) to ask permission to stay late at Elena's house to finish watching a TV show. It's a cinch the police interviewed both the mother and Elena, and must have compared their stories for consistency. So we're getting the same story, and that tells us Elena is being a truthful at least as far as the call to home at 11pm goes.

As Mia points out above, it would seem that Judith was alive, well, and probably not under duress at 11pm.

We also know that the time of death is fixed at about midnight 8/16-8/17/1957. The autopsy suggests here last meal was eaten about 6 hours before her death, and we know she had a meal at home around 6pm.

So, she was killed about an hour after calling home.

___________________________________________________________

The LA times tells us that Judith had 15cents with her when she left home to go to Elena's house.

"Before her remains were found, there was speculation that she might have gone to Oklahoma to visit Kenneth, but she did not take the $25 she had in the bank and left $5 on the dresser in her room. According to Elena, Judith had 15 cents on the night she disappeared."

We don't know how Elena came by the knowledge that Judith had 15cents. It could be that Elena had to treat Judith when they went to the Dairy King at about 7:00pm. Or it could be that Judith spent the 15cents remarking that it was all she had.

Reports conflict about the girls being back at the Dairy King again around 9:30pm. The owners of the Diary King say Judith and Elana came back at 9:30 with Nick Abbatacola, in his '53 Dodge, and stayed until closing at 10:15pm.

However, the girls were supposedly watching one of two television shows which began at 10pm - this was the basis for Judith calling home asking permission to finish watching the program. If they had actually been at the Dairy King at 10:15 then it must have been at least 10:30 before they could be back at Elena's home. Did they really get that engrossed in a show after missing the first half hour of the program?

Of course, there is no reason the girls actually had to be watching the show - it may simply have served as an excuse to buy Judith some more time for ---- who knows what? Taking a car ride with a boy?

It's equally possible the owners of the Diary King are simply mistaken. Teenagers and young adults would be coming in and out of the place, probably a regular hangout for many of them. It would be hard to say with precision that so and so was there at such and such time.

Elena tells Judith's parents, and later the police, that Judith intended to catch a bus home. Elena, as noted above, is said to have known that Judith had only 15 cents with her. Bus fare, in Chicago, in 1957, was 25 cents.

http://www.chicagobus.org/history

 

[scriptgirl]

I think it makes perfect sense to suggest the Abbatacolas were involved. Judith's dad visits their place after the abduction, knocks, no one answers, even though thewere on. Elena’s story keeps changing and let’s not forget, one of the kids in that family was convicted of molesting a child. It’s a no brainer to me.

 

[Chrishope]

I think it makes perfect sense to suggest the Abbatacolas were involved. Judith's dad visits their place after the abduction, knocks, no one answers, even though thewere on. Elena’s story keeps changing and let’s not forget, one of the kids in that family was convicted of molesting a child. It’s a no brainer to me.

Suggesting the possibility is one thing. Saying they definitely were involved is another. IMO, not enough evidence.

Elena and her oldest brother should both have been home at the time Judith's dad knocked on the door. But it's possible they were both heavy sleepers.

My son can't hear a knock on our door when he's asleep.

 

[shadowangel]

<snipped>
Finally, I wonder where exactly Judith was dismembered. I project like that would cause quite a mess, and one would need a fair amount of privacy. Did any of the Abbatacoloa brothers work at or have connections to a place that could be used for such activities? But if so, you'd think there would have been quite a bit of blood evidence left behind, even with a clean-up.

Maybe not as much as you might think. After death, the heart stops pumping blood...Blood pools in the lowest sections of the body, depending on orientation...
And of course it all depends on how thorough a search was conducted, based on what probable cause law enforcement had at the time.

 

[Sherlock Jr]

Judy Andersen attended Chicago's Austin High School. My brother in law graduated from Austin High School, probably in June 1957 at age 18. His younger brother was also a student there at the time of the Andersen murder. His parents continued to live in the area into the late 1960s. I did not attend Austin High School, but having lived in Chicago I had heard of the Andersen case.

Around 1980, I was at a family function at his mother's home. Some of the men were reminiscing about their high school days, and one of us asked my brother in law if he knew Judy Andersen. Before he could answer, his mother interrupted with an angry tirade against the girl. Her extreme reaction was puzzling. I don't remember everything she said, but her last words are still clear in my mind: "That girl was a real tramp!" Then the conversation moved to another subject.

My brother in law's mother died a few years later, and I have not seen him in years, so I never found out how well he knew Judy Andersen or why his mother had such an extreme reaction to the mention of her name. Of course, I have no reason to believe that he was involved in her murder in any way. But it still puzzles me.

I'm posting this comment not to insult the dead girl's memory, but to authenticate claims that she was on the wild side and took chances with boys. For example, when she telephoned her home at 11 PM that night, it's quite possible that she was not at Elena's apartment. She and Elena could have been miles away with strange men. That would explain why Elena didn't answer the telephone or the doorbell -- she wasn't home. Yet I have seen no discussion of this possibility.

 

[Sherlock Jr]

The LA times tells us that Judith had 15 cents with her when she left home to go to Elena's house.

"According to Elena, Judith had 15 cents on the night she disappeared."

Elena tells Judith's parents, and later the police, that Judith intended to catch a bus home. Elena, as noted above, is said to have known that Judith had only 15 cents with her. Bus fare, in Chicago, in 1957, was 25 cents.

http://www.chicagobus.org/history

The ADULT FULL FARE was 25 cents in 1957. I was living in Chicago at that time, and I believe that children and students could ride for 15 cents.

 

[spoung45]

Hello this is my first post here. Anyway I have been reading the posts here. and have been doing some searching. What I have found out about the Abbatacola's is that they had a big family it looks as if they had 11 kids. Now for some things that stuck out. About the construction of how barrels.


"Junk dealers said that scrapyards packing metal for shipment overseas often used old drums and sealed them in the manner used by Judith's killer. "Not one person in a thousand would think of packing something like that," said a manager for one of Chicago's biggest refiners and smelters. Drums of scrap metal being shipped domestically were typically sealed with a piece of burlap secured with a wire. Only drums of scrap metal being sent overseas were sealed by pounding the sides over the top to secure the lid.

Police learned that railroad workers sometimes used such cut-down drums as tool containers. The method was also used by servicemen in the Pacific during World War II, one crime lab investigator said.

Joseph worked as a Sheet Metal worker(the oil in one of the drums was known in cutting metals among other uses). He also served in the Koren war, while not WWII still many veterans from WWII served in Korea.

Also when Ralph Anderson phoned and rang the bell at the house there should have been 3 people there Elina, and Robert at first with Leo arriving there at 10:45 then going to bed. So how could none of the three hear the phone or the doorbell? Or could there be another explanation? Also with Nick at the pizza parlor all night till 4am that seams a little week, since the pizza parlor is only a 4 to 6 minute drive away he could be there and back quickly.

As far as the time line works out from(see map)
11pm the gunshot is herd buy multiple people, near the Abbatacola's home. (one of them lived one to two buildings north)
11:26 Screams heard at Austin High School
(could Judith have ran south to the high school thinking it was a safe area, that she was familiar with? Rather then run home what would have been much closer.)
11:30-11:45 Cries from the area around 1541 N. Lotus and "nothing of importance was found in the garage" of Marie Cardarelli
(who could be Marie Abbatacola an older sister who was married at the time, and she used a fake last name White would have been her married name. Could the cries been coming from Elina who just saw her best friend killed could this be why no one was answering the phone nor the door?)

As far as Elina it look as if she was married in 1960 she would be 18 at that point. He husband looks as to have died in 1978 but I also can not find a record of Elina dieing.
Joseph Abbatacola Sr. died in 1955 he was born in 1895
I can find no info on 2 of the older sisters Rose born in 1922 and Minie Borin in 1924.

Here is the map I made up.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?clie...898117116161899806.00048b997cef53ffd5c8a&z=12

This is just some thing i have been going over by reading the descriptions of what happened.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Hello this is my first post here. Anyway I have been reading the posts here. and have been doing some searching. What I have found out about the Abbatacola's is that they had a big family it looks as if they had 11 kids. Now for some things that stuck out. About the construction of how barrels.


"Junk dealers said that scrapyards packing metal for shipment overseas often used old drums and sealed them in the manner used by Judith's killer. "Not one person in a thousand would think of packing something like that," said a manager for one of Chicago's biggest refiners and smelters. Drums of scrap metal being shipped domestically were typically sealed with a piece of burlap secured with a wire. Only drums of scrap metal being sent overseas were sealed by pounding the sides over the top to secure the lid.

Police learned that railroad workers sometimes used such cut-down drums as tool containers. The method was also used by servicemen in the Pacific during World War II, one crime lab investigator said.

Joseph worked as a Sheet Metal worker(the oil in one of the drums was known in cutting metals among other uses). He also served in the Koren war, while not WWII still many veterans from WWII served in Korea.

Also when Ralph Anderson phoned and rang the bell at the house there should have been 3 people there Elina, and Robert at first with Leo arriving there at 10:45 then going to bed. So how could none of the three hear the phone or the doorbell? Or could there be another explanation? Also with Nick at the pizza parlor all night till 4am that seams a little week, since the pizza parlor is only a 4 to 6 minute drive away he could be there and back quickly.

As far as the time line works out from(see map)
11pm the gunshot is herd buy multiple people, near the Abbatacola's home. (one of them lived one to two buildings north)
11:26 Screams heard at Austin High School
(could Judith have ran south to the high school thinking it was a safe area, that she was familiar with? Rather then run home what would have been much closer.)
11:30-11:45 Cries from the area around 1541 N. Lotus and "nothing of importance was found in the garage" of Marie Cardarelli
(who could be Marie Abbatacola an older sister who was married at the time, and she used a fake last name White would have been her married name. Could the cries been coming from Elina who just saw her best friend killed could this be why no one was answering the phone nor the door?)

As far as Elina it look as if she was married in 1960 she would be 18 at that point. He husband looks as to have died in 1978 but I also can not find a record of Elina dieing.
Joseph Abbatacola Sr. died in 1955 he was born in 1895
I can find no info on 2 of the older sisters Rose born in 1922 and Minie Borin in 1924.

Here is the map I made up.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?clie...898117116161899806.00048b997cef53ffd5c8a&z=12

This is just some thing i have been going over by reading the descriptions of what happened.

Welcome to Websleuths, Spoung45. This is a terrific post and gives me much to think about. Thanks for doing this!!

Rosie

 

[spoung45]

Here is a post i found the topix message bord how vaild it is, and if there is any truth to it i dont know.

"The murderer of Judith Mae Anderson was never caught. In the 90's, while working in a Chicago suburban hospital, as an RN, one of my patients was Ralph Anderson. When he saw my name tag, JUDY, it must have opened a flood of emotions. It was his daughter who was so brutally murdered and dismembered, in 1957. Her body parts were put in drums and dumped in the river.
He told me he identified her by her head,(he insisted, he did not want his wife to endure this) He also told me he knew who the killer was but could not prove it. He would not divulge the name.
I was shaking with grief, and anger for him when I left that room."
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/fairbury-il/T6MM4OR2FOAV97NB4

I do find it intersting that he knew who the killer was bud could not prove it. It keeps looking like he knew personaly who did this before Judith was killed.

 

[The Professor]

I don't think this was the torso murderer. I think it was either someone in that family or a random killer.

Thank you Scriptgirl. I've been studying Judy's homicide for the last 6 1/2 years. There's no evidence that supports the theory, that Judy left the Abbatacola residence alive.

 

[The Professor]

According to the Autopsy report, and the medical examiner's statement to the media at that time, Judy was not sexually assaulted. There were no physical signs present to indicate any sexual activity. As for the motive; It would be best to let the people responsible tell us, as they're the only ones who actually know why they committed this crime.

 

[spoung45]

As for the motive; It would be best to let the people responsible tell us, as they're the only ones who actually know why they committed this crime.

Well the trouble with that is that most of the Abbatacola's who were there are now dead.

Also I remember some one say this could be mob related. I was walkiung with a coworker the other day. and he said that he heard of the name and dose remember that the family did have some low level connections. Also during that time running a restaurant most of the time you would have to have some sort of mob connection or be sure to have one of their jukeboxes or cigarette machines. Since John ran a pizza place at the time, it has a 99% chance that it had connections to the mob.

Just a side note, If the Johnny's Pizza is still in operation I do not know. since the original address on Madison is now a police station (could have been burned down during the MLK jr riots) I just recently found a Johnny's Pizza at 3047 N. Cicero not that far from the Abbatacola home. (Cicero is about mile east of Central and 3047 N. on Cicero would be just north of Diversy that's 2 miles north of their home)