IL IL - Judith Anderson, 15, Chicago, 16 Aug 1957

[The Professor]

You have a nice theory there. However, there's no evidence to support that theory. If La Cosa Nostra had been involved, Judy's remains would never have been found. And everyone studying this crime have overlooked one important fact. This crime is still under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice; Federal Bureau of Investigation. Kidnapping is a federal offense.

 

[spoung45]

I am not saying The Outfit was directly involved or had anything to do with this just that the family possibly had some small involvement in the mob. But regardless something happened at the Abbatacola's that night. as you said (the professor)no evidence says that she left alive. With a gun shot heard basically right in front of the building or in close proximity to it, kind of raises a flag.

 

[The Professor]

It's a foregone conclusion, that the Abbatacolas are responsible. Proving it is what concerns me. I wish I could get into the basement of that apartment house, and spray the entire basement with Luminol. If Judy was murdered, and dismembered there, the Luminol would highlight JUdy's blood.

 

[spoung45]

Another thing that I pointed out before is the garage where "nothing of importance was found" and the woman's name happens to be Marie and that is the name of one of the older Abbatacola sisters. It could just be a coincidence but its odd that it was stated that nothing was found in the garage. Also back then from what my coworker told me that most Italian families tended to say close to home once they moved out. So it is possible that this is the eldest daughter. (providing a false last name since i have found no genealogical info on the first and last names combined)

 

[The Professor]

Another thing that I pointed out before is the garage where "nothing of importance was found" and the woman's name happens to be Marie and that is the name of one of the older Abbatacola sisters. It could just be a coincidence but its odd that it was stated that nothing was found in the garage. Also back then from what my coworker told me that most Italian families tended to say close to home once they moved out. So it is possible that this is the eldest daughter. (providing a false last name since i have found no genealogical info on the first and last names combined)

That is odd. By the way, I found an A. Abbatacola living in Bronxville New York. The person's age isn't available. The woman the person is living with is named Annie. Middle initial is M. Same last name. I'm going to check into this. I'm now focusing on the entire family. There's a Joseph, and Nicholas Abbatacola living in Oak Park. There's a John Abbatacola who lives in Woodridge.

 

[spoung45]

I have done a lot of the looking into the family. the father Joseph died in 1955, and the mom Mary died in 1973, but they did have a lot of kids 10 of them. I have not found any with the first name of A. and Nicholas died in 2003 and Joseph (jr) died in 2005. I have more info I can share it with you it is just a lot to post on here.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Forgive me if this has been asked/answered, but can anyone speculate how many people it would take to carry a 55 gallon drum Judith's dismembered body? Could two men do this, or would it take more?

Also, how far from the lake was the Abbatacola apartment? Who had access to a vehicle that evening?

Judith was shot four times in the back of the head. Obviously this was no accidental shooting. Usually when you read about someone being shot in this manner, the person is on their knees facing away from the shooter. It's possible, though, that Judith was seated and the killer came up from behind her.

Four shots to the back of the head signifies a lot of anger in my opinion. One shot would likely have sufficed. Four shots means the person REALLY wanted to obliterate Judith, took no chances that she would survive.

It seems strange that such a cold-blooded killing led to such an amateurish dismemberment.

Were any members of the Abbatacola family known to carry guns, perhaps there was a gun kept at the pizza shop for protection?

 

[spoung45]

She was about 150 pounds at the time she diapered. the oil drum was cut down that would be about 100 pounds. Since her body was cut down how it was with the drum and what of her body was in there that would be about 240 pounds so it should not take more than 2 people lift that, one person could lift that on their own.

Montrose harbor is about 11 miles away so late night with no traffic it should be about a 30 min trip there and back. I believe Nick had a car since in the first post the car is described as a 1953 Dodge. I dont know if any if the other family members had a car.

As far as some one having a gun that is possible since Joseph served in the Koren War. He could possibly have had a gun at the time, but the caliber is wrong the only thing that he would have been issued that was a.32 cal would be an M1 rifle. I doubt that she was shot with an M1.

 

[Marilynilpa]

As far as some one having a gun that is possible since Joseph served in the Koren War. He could possibly have had a gun at the time, but the caliber is wrong the only thing that he would have been issued that was a.32 cal would be an M1 rifle. I doubt that she was shot with an M1.

I wondered about that, too, but figured he wouldn't have a .32.

The part about the ammo possibly being old is why I thought maybe this was a gun the family kept for protection, perhaps. It may have been loaded then sat around for a long time without being used.:waitasec:

 

[spoung45]

Found some new info they had an uncle that possibly served in WWII the name oh Phillip, but I do not know if he did get drafted since he was 52 at the time of the draft registration. If he was drafted he could easily have had a .32 cal with old ammo, and somehow given it to his brother after the war.

 

[The Professor]

I have done a lot of the looking into the family. the father Joseph died in 1955, and the mom Mary died in 1973, but they did have a lot of kids 10 of them. I have not found any with the first name of A. and Nicholas died in 2003 and Joseph (jr) died in 2005. I have more info I can share it with you it is just a lot to post on here.

Thank you for sharing this information with me. I could use all the help I can get on the Abbatacola Family. You can catch me on Yahoo Messenger. My messenger ID is; dr_demento777@yahoo.com I'm online in the morning, and again at night after 10:30 Have a great weekend.

 

[The Professor]

She was about 150 pounds at the time she diapered. the oil drum was cut down that would be about 100 pounds. Since her body was cut down how it was with the drum and what of her body was in there that would be about 240 pounds so it should not take more than 2 people lift that, one person could lift that on their own.

Montrose harbor is about 11 miles away so late night with no traffic it should be about a 30 min trip there and back. I believe Nick had a car since in the first post the car is described as a 1953 Dodge. I dont know if any if the other family members had a car.

As far as some one having a gun that is possible since Joseph served in the Koren War. He could possibly have had a gun at the time, but the caliber is wrong the only thing that he would have been issued that was a.32 cal would be an M1 rifle. I doubt that she was shot with an M1.

An M1 is a 30 cal. rifle.

 

[The Professor]

Found some new info they had an uncle that possibly served in WWII the name oh Phillip, but I do not know if he did get drafted since he was 52 at the time of the draft registration. If he was drafted he could easily have had a .32 cal with old ammo, and somehow given it to his brother after the war.

If Phillip was 52 at the time of the draft, the Army would not have taken him due to his age. The selective service requirements are; 18 to 35, and in good physical condition.

 

[Grifynne]

As a side note about the lights being on when Judith's dad arrived at the Abbatacola residence the evening she disappeared: I know sometimes we leave the lights on in certain rooms in our house when we go to bed. It just makes me feel more secure knowing I can see should I need to get up in the middle of the night. I also imagine having so many people living in one place, it is possible someone forgot to turn them off.

That being said, it certainly sounds to me like something is off about the Abbatacola family. Perhaps Elena was lying but only to cover up the fact that they were out exploring places they weren't supposed to be. I don't see that as a stretch for teenagers.

However there certainly seems to be a great deal of focus on Judith getting around and the method of murder certainly sounds like a crime of passion situation to me. I wonder if Elena might have done it out of jealousy and her family helped cover things up, not wanting to lose their daughter to her punishment so to speak.

This one really stumps me. It just seems too coincidental that Elena's story changed so much, that there were so many Abbatacola's around but no one saw anything and that the wounds seem a little too aggressive to be accidental or an impersonal murderer who just so happened to come across Judith that night. If Elena is still alive, I hope that one day maybe she provides a version of the story that maybe contains more truth. If she was only guilty of covering up for her friend being out in places she shouldn't have been, then surely enough time has passed for that to no longer matter.

 

[STANDREID]

A fellow named Barry Zander Cook reportedly confessed to Judith's murder although he later retracted the admission, I believe. He was tried for the 1956 murder of Margaret Gallagher, the so-called Spyglass Murder Case, but was acquitted. If I recall, he was also asked if he knew anything about the Grimes Sisters.

 

[Koby]

And who was this sailor?
I assumed Nick was gay since he molested a boy.

Not to be the newb jerk, but that's kind of insulting. Being gay doesn't make someone a pedophile. The vast majority of pedophiles are straight. The ones who aren't are the exception, NOT the rule. :banghead:

As for this case, perhaps it is being over-thought? Here's a possible scenario: We know Nick had called Judith to ask for a date. We know Judith was at the home that night. Perhaps there was some sort of argument between the two. Maybe Nick was jealous that she wanted to call Kenneth. Or maybe they were just young adults who were roughhousing and somehow she's injured, knocked unconscious. They think she's dead and panic, they've got to get rid of the body. As they're doing that, she starts coming to or something, so someone panics some more and shoots her. Someone makes the decision to cut her up and try to hide her in the lake. At some point in all of that, the family gets alerted and helps out, because what are they going to do, turn the kids in?
(Hey, I didn't say it was a great theory, just an example. My DA friend says you should usually figure out the simplest answer and go from there.)

 

[scriptgirl]

What weirds me out is that she was so young and talking about getting engaged or whatever. Whatever happened to the guy she was serious about and what happened to Abbatacola that was a child molester?

 

[Robin Hood]

Almost at the bottom of this page
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/judith_mae_andersen/

''According to testimony at the inquest, Elena Abbatacola contacted three boys after Judith's disappearance and told them not to reveal that they spent the evening together''

The plot thickens.

If you Google the news archives and filter out the pay per view there's some interesting reading. I lost a post with about 15 links about the case, it disappeared into cyber space I haven't the energy to do it again. There's some suspects names and much more info on the case in the archives.

 

[Theophilus]

I assumed Nick was gay since he molested a boy.

...that's kind of insulting. Being gay doesn't make someone a pedophile. The vast majority of pedophiles are straight. The ones who aren't are the exception, NOT the rule.

The statistic you cite about the majority of pedophiles being straight may be correct, but it pertains to older males who molest underage females or older females who molest underage males.

A male who seeks or desires sexual intercourse with another male, whether consensually or not, is by definition a homosexual.

 

[Robin Hood]

''Stains on new auto may be slaying clue''
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=2437,5292865&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en


Paint found on chisle - a 75 year old railway worker admits he threw the chisles away so this didn't go anywhere
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=6837,2283874&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en


Long haired girl struggles with two men in a car
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...J&pg=6204,479382&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en

'57 coldcase is rekindled
http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=5154&pst=867056

New clues
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...J&pg=610,4637923&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en

Burned trousers
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=6970,5482455&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en

Two men sought, one a former medical student
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AJ&pg=781,311463&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en

Persons named by Elena are under surveillance
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=7136,5603736&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en

Possibly held prisoner for 6-8 hours
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=6590,2185681&dq=judith+mae+andersen&hl=en

Blimey the links turned up !