IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #1

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From the ABC I team link I posted above:

Indeed, authorities continue to hold back much of the information they know about the case, and Lake County Detective and Task Force member Chris Covelli says that they have not ruled out any possibilities in Lt. Gliniewicz's death and all theories are still on the table.
 
Ok, here is the link to the ABC I team information that appeared on the 6:00 pm news.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/

IDK why, but I am unable to view the video at the above link.

IMO we are all interpreting the info differently. Filenko correcting himself after using the word "murder" and changing it to "killing" indicates to me they do not yet have enough evidence to conclusively call this a murder. Time will tell if they are able to gather enough evidence to indicate this was a murder, or not.

They still have no evidence other than LT.CG's radio call that these three suspects exist.

I found the use of the term "first responders" not matching the transfer dna found at the crime scene to indicate the paramedics, not necessarily the first officers on the scene. But that could be just my interpretation which could be incorrect.

I don't think two shots rules out a self inflicted wound, accidental or otherwise, especially when a LEO would know how an investigation works and possibly try to influence the evidence. One non fatal wound and one fatal wound.

No one has come out and said that forensically it is impossible for that neck wound to have come from the victim, accidently or otherwise.

As for the Reverend (forgive me, I forget his proper title) making comments on mistakes. Maybe he was refering to mistakes made by the victim in preparation for what news might be coming out. Maybe something was shared with him as a way to help people with their grief during his sermon and he was given info that is being held close to the vest.

:cow:

Cubby, thank's for the run-down. This is my understanding of where things stand as well. It's good that ALL possibilities are being investigated. I believe there's something not being said so far in all this, I don't know what obviously, but there's something looming over this case not being said. Nothing seems to be adding up, and I hope we hear more info soon. This case is very tragic and very strange.
 
just as an FYI, I had a hard time finding the ABC link from this evenings news by just searching Goudie and a few search words. Searching ABC 7 I team brought up a link just for I team info and I found it easily that way. Wanted to share this for anyone searching info Chuck Goudie reported on ABC news.
 
The video won't play for me either, though I saw the broadcast.

From Link:

http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/

<Snip> "Late Tuesday, Cmdr. Filenko told the I-Team he wouldn't comment on, confirm or deny the gunshot information given to the I-Team by several sources familiar with the case: that shortly after arriving on the desolate gravel road, Lt. Gliniewicz was hit twice - once in the lower stomach region covered by his bulletproof vest and once in his neck area toward the back.

"We're proceeding as if it were a homicide. Again, I'm going to go back to the original radio call," Cmdr. Filenko said."

And

<Snip> "The investigation of Lt. Gliniewicz's death proceeds even as parallel investigations that began months ago at the Fox Lake Police Department continue. Those internal investigations of possible police misconduct resulted in the chief's resignation last month and there are still many unanswered questions in that case.

The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."
 
This is weird:

http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/


"We're proceeding as if it were a homicide. Again, I'm going to go back to the original radio call," Cmdr. Filenko said.

Indeed, authorities continue to hold back much of the information they know about the case, and Lake County Detective and Task Force member Chris Covelli says that they have not ruled out any possibilities in Lt. Gliniewicz's death and all theories are still on the table."


Why does Filenko say "as if it were" in his statement? Shouldn't the ME know if this was a murder or not? There's too many unanswered questions in this case.
 
This is weird:

http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/


"We're proceeding as if it were a homicide. Again, I'm going to go back to the original radio call," Cmdr. Filenko said.

Indeed, authorities continue to hold back much of the information they know about the case, and Lake County Detective and Task Force member Chris Covelli says that they have not ruled out any possibilities in Lt. Gliniewicz's death and all theories are still on the table."


Why does Filenko say "as if it were" in his statement? Shouldn't the ME know if this was a murder or not? There's too many unanswered questions in this case.


That goes back to what I said early on in this case. They start out investigating as a homicide because they can't go back later and collect evidence. This way they have the evidence and see where it leads. They are not going to discount that radio call, or any other theory until they can do so with 100% certainty.
 
The video won't play for me either, though I saw the broadcast.

From Link:

http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/

<Snip> "Late Tuesday, Cmdr. Filenko told the I-Team he wouldn't comment on, confirm or deny the gunshot information given to the I-Team by several sources familiar with the case: that shortly after arriving on the desolate gravel road, Lt. Gliniewicz was hit twice - once in the lower stomach region covered by his bulletproof vest and once in his neck area toward the back.

"We're proceeding as if it were a homicide. Again, I'm going to go back to the original radio call," Cmdr. Filenko said."

And

<Snip> "The investigation of Lt. Gliniewicz's death proceeds even as parallel investigations that began months ago at the Fox Lake Police Department continue. Those internal investigations of possible police misconduct resulted in the chief's resignation last month and there are still many unanswered questions in that case.

The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."


What does that mean?
 
Last night at around midnight a phone call came in from Filenko's home agency (Rollins Park) to inform someone was under arrest for a warrant.

looking4OPH - you were right to warn about confusion. Thank you.
Rollins Park is not familiar. There is a Rollins Road that starts in Fox Lake, runs through the neighboring "Round Lake" communities and ends in the Grayslake/Gurnee area. I know of no parks named that on Rollins Road. There does seem to be a town of Rollins Park near Aurora, which is a far southwest suburb, over an hour away. Would seem strange to be involved.
 
What does that mean?

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150826/news/150829062/

Fox Lake police chief to retire amid investigation - updated: 8/26/2015 5:06 PM

"Already the subject of an internal village investigation, Fox Lake Police Chief Michael Behan has resigned, officials announced Wednesday.

Behan plans to retire at the end of this week, according to a news release from the village. Behan told trustees about his plans to step down earlier this month, the release said.

Those plans weren't mentioned last week, however, when Village Administrator Anne Marrin announced Behan and an unidentified police officer had been placed on paid administrative leave after the launch of an investigation into a physical confrontation between the officer and a suspect in December 2014.

Private investigators were hired by the village to look into the case because officials have concerns with "how the incident was investigated, when it was investigated and how decisions regarding findings and discipline were reached," Marrin said.

No charges have been filed, nor has any civil action been taken in the matter."

More at link.
 
I know that there are a lot of open possibilities still, but things seem so odd here that one can't discount the chance that something is rotten in Denmark.
 
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150905/news/150909186/

Fox Lake police squad to be run by Lake County deputy chief - updated: 9/5/2015 7:12 PM


"As the village of Fox Lake continues to grapple with the fatal shooting of a police officer, an interim chief of police was sworn in Saturday afternoon.

Lake County sheriff's office Deputy Chief Michael Keller, 39, was named to the top post after the village board held a special meeting Friday "to bring stability, command and leadership" to the police department after Tuesday's slaying of Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz, village officials said in a news release. Scot Kurek, 40, a sergeant with the Lake County sheriff's office, will serve as interim deputy chief.

Former Chief Mike Behan retired Aug. 28, three days before Gliniewicz was killed.

Keller currently manages the county's Gang Task Force and oversees major case investigations."

More at link.
 
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150826/news/150829062/

Fox Lake police chief to retire amid investigation - updated: 8/26/2015 5:06 PM

"Already the subject of an internal village investigation, Fox Lake Police Chief Michael Behan has resigned, officials announced Wednesday.

Behan plans to retire at the end of this week, according to a news release from the village. Behan told trustees about his plans to step down earlier this month, the release said.

Those plans weren't mentioned last week, however, when Village Administrator Anne Marrin announced Behan and an unidentified police officer had been placed on paid administrative leave after the launch of an investigation into a physical confrontation between the officer and a suspect in December 2014.

Private investigators were hired by the village to look into the case because officials have concerns with "how the incident was investigated, when it was investigated and how decisions regarding findings and discipline were reached," Marrin said.

No charges have been filed, nor has any civil action been taken in the matter."

More at link.

Right. I understand. My question is how does that relate to this statement:

"The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."

??
 
Right. I understand. My question is how does that relate to this statement:

"The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."

??

I don't know if this is connected at all, but I think he's saying all theories are being considered and this is being looked into as well. That's what I took from it anyway.
 
Right. I understand. My question is how does that relate to this statement:

"The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."

??

I can think of possibilities, but since it is and was an internal investigation no one knows what was said by whom in questioning. JMO
 
Dr. Thomas Rudd of the coroner&#8217;s office tells CBS 2, &#8220;Without law enforcements final reports of this incident, I cannot determine the manner of death right now.&#8221; The manner of death would either be homicide, suicide or accidental.

Although the Lake County Coroner&#8217;s office has yet to determine the official cause or manner of Gliniewicz&#8217;s death, Filenko said police are continuing to treat the case as a homicide investigation

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/09...on-fox-lake-video-not-involved-in-cops-death/




 
Dr. Thomas Rudd of the coroner&#8217;s office tells CBS 2, &#8220;Without law enforcements final reports of this incident, I cannot determine the manner of death right now.&#8221; The manner of death would either be homicide, suicide or accidental.
In a holding pattern. Circular waiting. Coroner waiting on LE. LE waiting on coroner's report.
 
The video won't play for me either, though I saw the broadcast.

From Link:

http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/

<Snip> "Late Tuesday, Cmdr. Filenko told the I-Team he wouldn't comment on, confirm or deny the gunshot information given to the I-Team by several sources familiar with the case: that shortly after arriving on the desolate gravel road, Lt. Gliniewicz was hit twice - once in the lower stomach region covered by his bulletproof vest and once in his neck area toward the back.

"We're proceeding as if it were a homicide. Again, I'm going to go back to the original radio call," Cmdr. Filenko said."

And

<Snip> "The investigation of Lt. Gliniewicz's death proceeds even as parallel investigations that began months ago at the Fox Lake Police Department continue. Those internal investigations of possible police misconduct resulted in the chief's resignation last month and there are still many unanswered questions in that case.

The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."

Highlighted by me:

These sound like close contact wounds that were obtained during a struggle. My guess would be that the shot to the stomach area was first, followed shortly thereafter by the shot to the rear neck region after the gun was wrestled away from Gliniewicz. All you need to envision is two men rolling around on the ground fighting over possession of a firearm with the one that grabbed the gun first being the person pulling the trigger as the struggle ensued.

Neither one of those would be considered a killshot by someone standing a distance away and aiming the gun carefully. The normal target would either be center mass of the chest or back, or a shot to the head. To me this sounds more like the perp grabbed Gliniewicz's gun while he was distracted, at which point Gliniewicz grabbed the subject and attempted to wrestle him down to the ground and regain control of the weapon. As they were rolling prone on the ground, the perp managed to squeeze the trigger and shoot upwards under Gliniewicz's vest. Although this wound would have been life-threatening, I don't know that it would have instantly incapacitated Gliniewicz, but most likely would have sent him into a state of shock. The second shot sounds almost as if the perp was lying prone under Gliniewicz and reached the gun around behind his head and pulled the trigger while being pinned under him. Sort of a "get off of me" shot, if that makes sense.

It's easy to understand how there may have been a DNA transfer from the suspect to Gliniewicz if a struggle such as that actually happened. Also, Gliniewicz was still alive when the other officers reached the scene, which would indicate that the suspect didn't get up, brush himself off, and then deliver a kill shot. He wiggled out from underneath Gliniewicz after the two shots, then got up and ran.

What the other two guys were doing during all of this is left to be determined. They may have been running off into the swamp, they may have been standing idly by watching the entire struggle unfold.
They may have doubled back after the shooting and formulated an escape plan with the shooter.

I think it is most likely that the shooter in this case had prior contact with law enforcement. It takes a lot of anger, resentment, and balls to grab a cop's gun and try to shoot him with his own weapon. I know it hasn't been confirmed that Gliniewicz's gun was the weapon used, but judging by the location of the wounds, it definitely looks as if there was a struggle for a weapon going on. The perp most likely still had the gun in his hand when he crawled out from underneath Gliniewicz, and that may be why it took them awhile to find it. After the gun was swabbed, they may have also found a DNA transfer due to sweaty hands. On the other hand, the perp could have wiped the gun down with his shirt prior to tossing it into the weeds, which would eliminate both DNA and fingerprints.

I think it is more likely that DNA was found during the process of swabbing Gliniewicz after he was pronounced dead, probably at the coroners office. If there indeed was a hand-to-hand struggle going on, it is very easy to understand how that transfer could have happened through sweat, spit, skin cells or blood left on Gliniewicz's skin or clothing.

A 40 caliber bullet is a BIG bullet. It would cause a fatal wound where smaller bullets might not. Due to the positions the wounds were found, it makes sense that Gliniewicz may have survived for a short time, while at the same time, both wounds would have proven fatal eventually if for no other reason than blood loss. The enormous impact a 40 caliber bullet would have on the human body is another reason I'm leaning towards Gliniewicz's own weapon being used in the assault.
 
Dr. Thomas Rudd of the coroner&#8217;s office tells CBS 2, &#8220;Without law enforcements final reports of this incident, I cannot determine the manner of death right now.&#8221; The manner of death would either be homicide, suicide or accidental.

Although the Lake County Coroner&#8217;s office has yet to determine the official cause or manner of Gliniewicz&#8217;s death, Filenko said police are continuing to treat the case as a homicide investigation

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/09...on-fox-lake-video-not-involved-in-cops-death/





I rest my case. JMO
 
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