IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #1

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These sound like close contact wounds that were obtained during a struggle. My guess would be that the shot to the stomach area was first, followed shortly thereafter by the shot to the rear neck region after the gun was wrestled away from Gliniewicz. All you need to envision is two men rolling around on the ground fighting over possession of a firearm with the one that grabbed the gun first being the person pulling the trigger as the struggle ensued.

Neither one of those would be considered a killshot by someone standing a distance away and aiming the gun carefully. The normal target would either be center mass of the chest or back, or a shot to the head. To me this sounds more like the perp grabbed Gliniewicz's gun while he was distracted, at which point Gliniewicz grabbed the subject and attempted to wrestle him down to the ground and regain control of the weapon. As they were rolling prone on the ground, the perp managed to squeeze the trigger and shoot upwards under Gliniewicz's vest. Although this wound would have been life-threatening, I don't know that it would have instantly incapacitated Gliniewicz, but most likely would have sent him into a state of shock. The second shot sounds almost as if the perp was lying prone under Gliniewicz and reached the gun around behind his head and pulled the trigger while being pinned under him. Sort of a "get off of me" shot, if that makes sense.

It's easy to understand how there may have been a DNA transfer from the suspect to Gliniewicz if a struggle such as that actually happened. Also, Gliniewicz was still alive when the other officers reached the scene, which would indicate that the suspect didn't get up, brush himself off, and then deliver a kill shot. He wiggled out from underneath Gliniewicz after the two shots, then got up and ran.

What the other two guys were doing during all of this is left to be determined. They may have been running off into the swamp, they may have been standing idly by watching the entire struggle unfold.
They may have doubled back after the shooting and formulated an escape plan with the shooter.

I think it is most likely that the shooter in this case had prior contact with law enforcement. It takes a lot of anger, resentment, and balls to grab a cop's gun and try to shoot him with his own weapon. I know it hasn't been confirmed that Gliniewicz's gun was the weapon used, but judging by the location of the wounds, it definitely looks as if there was a struggle for a weapon going on. The perp most likely still had the gun in his hand when he crawled out from underneath Gliniewicz, and that may be why it took them awhile to find it. After the gun was swabbed, they may have also found a DNA transfer due to sweaty hands. On the other hand, the perp could have wiped the gun down with his shirt prior to tossing it into the weeds, which would eliminate both DNA and fingerprints.

I think it is more likely that DNA was found during the process of swabbing Gliniewicz after he was pronounced dead, probably at the coroners office. If there indeed was a hand-to-hand struggle going on, it is very easy to understand how that transfer could have happened through sweat, spit, skin cells or blood left on Gliniewicz's skin or clothing.

A 40 caliber bullet is a BIG bullet. It would cause a fatal wound where smaller bullets might not. Due to the positions the wounds were found, it makes sense that Gliniewicz may have survived for a short time, while at the same time, both wounds would have proven fatal eventually if for no other reason than blood loss. The enormous impact a 40 caliber bullet would have on the human body is another reason I'm leaning towards Gliniewicz's own weapon being used in the assault.

Definitely something to think about. A few questions though. Was it said via msm he was hit with a 40 caliber bullet? Also, I was under the impression the bullet described as being in the area of the vest meant the bullet hit the vest, not the subject.

Now, if someone was laying on top in a struggle why would they shoot the back of the neck area? Wouldn't that be risky that the bullet would hit both of them?
 
His gun was said to be 40 caliber, but LE has not revealed what caliber shot caused his death. That's why I was wondering if the "thing" found at the crime scene on Friday, that was said to be highly relevant was possibly a bullet or a casing. That would put the scene in better perspective for LE. Could a casing actually yield some DNA? Dunno. We have not been told if there was a struggle, which would have been obvious....dirt, abrasions disheveled clothing, etc. JMO........Also, whatever was found at the scene on Friday was NOT his weapon or clothing, so if weapon and or clothing have foreign DNA, and the "thing" does too, they can be compared. JMO
 
Definitely something to think about. A few questions though. Was it said via msm he was hit with a 40 caliber bullet? Also, I was under the impression the bullet described as being in the area of the vest meant the bullet hit the vest, not the subject.

Now, if someone was laying on top in a struggle why would they shoot the back of the neck area? Wouldn't that be risky that the bullet would hit both of them?

I'll attempt to answer this, but as you know I don't have some insider knowledge as to what was at the scene, so this is all just speculation on my part.

1) I remember hearing that the gun obtained at the scene was his 40 caliber pistol. I don't know when I heard it or if I read it, but it stuck in my head because I've had firearms my entire life and I remember thinking to myself "holy crap, that's a big bullet to get shot with".

2) Whether the bullet hit his vest or went directly into his stomach doesn't really make much difference, it would've hurt like hell either way, and it may have put Gliniewicz in just enough shock to allow the perpetrator to get the upper hand in the fight over the pistol. At a few inches away, I don't know if a bullet proof vest would stop a 40 caliber bullet or not, it would all depend on what kind of loads were in the gun such as hollow points, full metal jacket, exploding rounds, etc. Armor piercing rounds will go right through just about any vest, as will many high-powered rifle rounds. I doubt that kind of ammunition was at play here though.

3) I don't think the perp was on top of Gliniewicz during the struggle, I think he was pinned underneath him. The shot to the stomach is self explanatory since it could have happened just about anytime after the gun was snatched and the wrestling match began. After being shot in the stomach, imagine Gliniewicz basically doing a bear hug on this guy while lying on the ground, still trying to wrestle the gun out of his hand. The perp manages to get his hand free and reaches around behind Gliniewicz and simply makes a hap hazard shot into the back of his neck area. Also, Gliniewicz may have actually tried to throw his head out of the way once he saw the perp pointing the gun at him. That's why the shot to the lower part of the neck is sort of an odd spot to shoot someone. But if it occurred during a heated battle, it makes total sense. I suppose from the perps point of view you could even call it a "lucky shot".

After this struggle, the perp crawls out from underneath Gliniewicz and runs off, gun in hand.

Keep in mind, all of this probably happened in a matter of a few seconds, most likely between 10-20 seconds total, give or take. The commander said there was definitely a DNA transfer. What that says to me is that the perp and Gliniewicz most likely had some sort of physical contact with each other, more than likely a wrestling match on the ground.

They eliminated the EMT's, the ambulance drivers, the doctors, and the cops on the scene as being donors, yet they still have a DNA profile that doesn't match up to anybody. They asked for anybody that may have had contact with him, or may have touched him at the scene, to come forward. The absolute worst thing that could happen is if they DO match the DNA profile to one of the rescue personnel.

Then they have nothing, back to square one.
 
T
Interesting analysis. Three youngsters looking to score dope out fox a veteran officer who happens to train other officers in police tactics. Then a young woman calls and says she saw them and leads the police on the wrong direction.
Two white guys and a black guy. Don't sound like typical gang members.
Homeland security wants to analyze the security tapes before anyone else.
Frankly, I am suspicious about most everything and everyone involved, especially the girl who made that call.

Wasn't the woman a dispatcher - the person who took CJG's radio call?
Did I miss something which wouldn't be unusual.

Going back to posts from yesterday - Sorry, I realize I misunderstood Keefer's post.
Therefore, my responses didn't make sense.
 
I'm hoping the media doesn't let this case just float away.
Is Illinois a freedom of information state, like Florida?

Not sure if anyone addressed the freedom of information question yet ~

It is difficult to understand written law imo.
The first few lines below address the idea that Illinois court reports belong to the public.
If anyone wants to take the time to read the document, numerous conditions (pt.a, pt.b, pt.c, pt.d, etc.) are applied to the law that can and do place restrictions on the core idea.

Plus, accessing public records usually involves paying fees.
Media members/outlets or individuals have to be highly motivated to obtain records imo.


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=86&ChapterID=2


Also when Federal Agencies are involved in a case, obtaining those records don't gel with state law records.
 
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150904/news/150909372/

The comment below the article is a good one.
The person points out the cell towers in the area should be able to narrow down who was in the area at the time Lt. CG was shot.

Bumping this post from September 4th, post #470.
The Daily Herald link has a comment suggesting LE triangulate the cell towers to narrow down people within the area at the time. I hope LE is doing that.

Last year I read that the triangulation process isn't as easy as we may think it is. It takes a professional to do it right but, when successful, can help locate phones within the area at given times.
So, depending on the number of pings, this could be a long process to determine who may have been closest to the area.

Heck, as usual, I know a little about a lot but not enough about any one thing.
There are experts though, thank goodness.

I'll bring the link here ~ http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150904/news/150909372/
 
Dr. Thomas Rudd of the coroner’s office tells CBS 2, “Without law enforcements final reports of this incident, I cannot determine the manner of death right now.” The manner of death would either be homicide, suicide or accidental.

Although the Lake County Coroner’s office has yet to determine the official cause or manner of Gliniewicz’s death, Filenko said police are continuing to treat the case as a homicide investigation

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/09...on-fox-lake-video-not-involved-in-cops-death/





How would someone accidentally shoot themselves in the back of the neck?
 
I don't think FOIA requests happen when there is an open, ongoing murder investigation though.
 
http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/

I don't think I can bring it over here.....but read the long comment under story...sounds like an insider....IMO

The one question we haven't pondered....was it the Lts day off??

Even if it was his day off, he had the patrol car. He would probably take it back , I'd imagine. Why keep it at his home all day on a day off?
Maybe he went to the gym that am, then went to drop the car off at the station, when he saw something suspicious. ?
 
Rollins Park is not familiar. There is a Rollins Road that starts in Fox Lake, runs through the neighboring "Round Lake" communities and ends in the Grayslake/Gurnee area. I know of no parks named that on Rollins Road. There does seem to be a town of Rollins Park near Aurora, which is a far southwest suburb, over an hour away. Would seem strange to be involved.

Yes, Rollins Park is a town. Filenko referred to it as his "home agency" and is where he received a call/tip from. Beyond that, I don't know. Filenko said (as of yesterday), that tip was still being investigated.

Lake County, Illinois ~ http://www.lakecountyil.gov/countygovernment/othergovernment/Pages/citiesandvillages.aspx

No Rollins Park in above list.

Can a Commander of Major Crimes in _____ County live in another country?

Please, if anybody else has access to yesterday's presser, can you help to clarify?
Filenko referred to receiving a call from his "home agency" and mentioned "Rollins Park".
He stated the tip/person was still being investigated at the time he was speaking.

Beyond this, I don't know what to say or have an explanation.
 
-clipped-

At 12:38 p.m., discussion about the 185 leads began.
Last night at around midnight a phone call came in from Filenko's home agency
(Rollins Park) to inform someone was under arrest for a warrant. The person claimed he has knowledge of who the murderers were (as he put it). At mid day, the comment was still under investigation.

-clipped-

Male reporter asks at 12:45 mins.,
Is the Round Lake Park individual a person of interest?
This was the person who had too much to drink but is not related to the case and is in jail according to Filenko.

----------- (adding my notes below)-----------

Remembering I still had the presser on DVR I went back to listen again.

Two examples of tips were given - one involving Rollins Park which was still under investigation.

Then the male reporter asked about the Round Lake Park individual (who hadn't been brought up earlier to my knowledge) who was the drunk guy but is not related to the case per Filenko.

I listened three times to make sure the reporter asked about Round Lake Park (versus referring to the comment Filenko made about a call originating from Rollins Park).

Anyway, Filenko insists this person (Round Lake Park) is not involved with the case.

He didn't clear the tip that came in from Rollins Park.

When was a person from Round Lake Park mentioned in the first place?

-clipped-


Bumping info taken from yesterday's presser and notes/comments I made while listening to it as they pertained to Rollins Park and/or Round Lake Park.
 
In reference to taking patrol cars home. It depends on the policy of the individual department. Some have cars which are always left at the station, sometimes even being shared by different shifts. Some, usually larger agencies-not always, allow some officers to take their cars home every day, to be driven back and forth to work. Just like each agency has rules on whether or not they require officers to live in the jurisdiction they serve. IMO I think it's a big deal if it was his day off, maybe someone called him to meet them at that location.
 

In that case Filenko misspoke.
Cubby, I listened over and over again and he referred to his home agency as Rollins Park.
How is it possible I heard Round Lake Park and made it into Rollins Park after checking/re-listening three or four times?
lol - anything is possible but really?

On top of that I tried to look for a link to confirm Filenko's home agency and couldn't fine one.
Aliens have taken over my computer.

Maybe I'm going crazy.
 
All msm said he was on his way to work or on duty. I take the comment section info as rumor.
 
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