IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[vestigare]

I'm thinking about the vest shot, and where the casing was found. JMO

Very good point.
Joe could have walked out shot himself first in the vest and then walked elsewhere leaving gunpowder residue path and shot himself again.

The dog would have lost the scent because the scent was actually travelling back toward joes gun not away.

 

[cady]

Could the residue scent have gone from the quarter mi away spot to the spot where the gun was found? Either way would be detectable for the dog. JMO

 

[cady]

And picked up the casing, taking it back to the death scene. JMO

 

[Cubby]

They had no other dog to pick up the scent while the other handler got sick?
SERIOUSLY? This is truly turning into keystone cops here.
And wasn't the high that day 90? Even with 90 percent humidity come on....

If this is homicide and they dropped the ball on this someone has some major explaining to do.

I have some devils advocate I can point out here regarding this tracking here but I don't have time right now.

Interestingly Filenko claims it isn't necessarily proof.....???

The handler didn't get sick. From memory and watching this unfold on TV the day it happened the heat was too much for the dogs to be out for more than a certain amount of time. I don't recall how long that time frame was, but they did say they rotated dogs and searchers in for specific periods of time due to the extreme heat.

 

[Tillicum]

Here's Steelman's map again for anyone who wants to try and figure out where the scent trail was. (1700 feet southeast from where weapon was recovered)
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kdNsSY53CGeU

 

[vestigare]

The handler didn't get sick. From memory and watching this unfold on TV the day it happened the heat was too much for the dogs to be out for more than a certain amount of time. I don't recall how long that time frame was, but they did say they rotated dogs and searchers in for specific periods of time due to the extreme heat.

I was going off this quote--->>"The dog tracked a scent of gunshot residue from where the weapon was recovered to the southeast for about 1,700 feet," Filenko said. "Unfortunately, the handler had to be (evacuated) out. Due to conditions, we had a number of people who had to be (evacuated)."

Says people, not dogs and that he was evacuated not just switched out.
Not sure why the parenthesis in the quote....

 

[tcer114]

Here's Steelman's map again for anyone who wants to try and figure out where the scent trail was. (1700 feet southeast from where weapon was recovered)
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kdNsSY53CGeU

It was noted that towards the afternoon officers crossed Rollins and headed toward Hickory and Spruce. It was thought theymight be following a scent. That would fit.

 

[looking4OPH]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150922/news/150929643/

Hmm.

Filenko is back after not speaking at the recent presser. And speaking from where? when? officially? or is HE leaking new information now? Per this article, he is giving more specific detail than ever previously.

Dog in any SouthEasterly direction of the scene 1700 ft. (measured at http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm) would still be in the swamp, maybe getting near the Fox Ridge neighborhood (Foxridge Dr.), which is somewhat up a hill/elevated.

As far as LE being evacuated out, as said elsewhere it was in the 90s with very high humidity that day. I remember seeing a little flurry of rescue/flight-for-life calls from the scanner that evening. Was hard initially to tell if it was progress in the manhunt or related heat issues.

 

[Cubby]

I saw the quote. I'm not sure about the reason for the parenthesis either, but they did say throughout the newscasts that the dogs and handlers had to be rotated due to the heat.

 

[looking4OPH]

It was noted that towards the afternoon officers crossed Rollins and headed toward Hickory and Spruce. It was thought theymight be following a scent. That would fit.

Clarification; Hickory and Spruce are NE of the scene. Swamp is SE of the scene. Not saying the searching NE wasn't related, just that it isn't SE as described in the DH article.

 

[Solitaryone]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150922/news/150929643/

Lake County
updated: 9/22/2015 5:11 PM
K-9 tracks gunshot residue a quarter-mile from Gliniewicz shooting scene

"In the hours after Fox Lake police Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was killed three weeks ago, a K-9 unit trained specifically to track gunshot residue followed a scent for more than a quarter-mile away from the veteran officer's gun, authorities say.

While the dog's tracking lends credence to the belief Gliniewicz was the victim of a homicide, it doesn't prove it, said George Filenko, commander of the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force.

Detectives have not ruled out any other scenarios, but they continue to investigate Gliniewicz's death as a homicide, he said.

According to Filenko, the K-9 picked up the scent seemingly from Gliniewicz's .40-caliber weapon and followed it to the southeast before the dog's handler had to stop due to fatigue and dehydration.

After the handler stopped, Filenko said, the K-9 lost the scent.

"The dog tracked a scent of gunshot residue from where the weapon was recovered to the southeast for about 1,700 feet," Filenko said. "Unfortunately, the handler had to be (evacuated) out. Due to conditions, we had a number of people who had to be (evacuated)."

More at link.

 

[Solitaryone]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150922/news/150929643/

Lake County
updated: 9/22/2015 5:11 PM
K-9 tracks gunshot residue a quarter-mile from Gliniewicz shooting scene

"In the hours after Fox Lake police Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was killed three weeks ago, a K-9 unit trained specifically to track gunshot residue followed a scent for more than a quarter-mile away from the veteran officer's gun, authorities say.

While the dog's tracking lends credence to the belief Gliniewicz was the victim of a homicide, it doesn't prove it, said George Filenko, commander of the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force.

Detectives have not ruled out any other scenarios, but they continue to investigate Gliniewicz's death as a homicide, he said.

According to Filenko, the K-9 picked up the scent seemingly from Gliniewicz's .40-caliber weapon and followed it to the southeast before the dog's handler had to stop due to fatigue and dehydration.

After the handler stopped, Filenko said, the K-9 lost the scent.

"The dog tracked a scent of gunshot residue from where the weapon was recovered to the southeast for about 1,700 feet," Filenko said. "Unfortunately, the handler had to be (evacuated) out. Due to conditions, we had a number of people who had to be (evacuated)."

More at link.

Sorry to quote myself, but this:

"After the handler stopped, Filenko said, the K-9 lost the scent."

Why did the K-9 lose the scent when the handler stopped? Couldn't the dog or another dog find the scent again?

 

[Solitaryone]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150922/news/150929643/


"While the K-9 used later that day specifically started tracking residue from near Gliniewicz's gun, it is not able to track residue from any specific weapon, Filenko said. He added that it's unknown how long the residue trail was in the area.

"That depends on the conditions and the weather," he said."

"Lake County sheriff's detective Chris Covelli said at a news conference Monday that gunshot residue and ballistics tests do not support or exclude any specific theory in the investigation."

 

[Walker007]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150922/news/150929643/

Lake County
updated: 9/22/2015 5:11 PM
K-9 tracks gunshot residue a quarter-mile from Gliniewicz shooting scene

"In the hours after Fox Lake police Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was killed three weeks ago, a K-9 unit trained specifically to track gunshot residue followed a scent for more than a quarter-mile away from the veteran officer's gun, authorities say.

While the dog's tracking lends credence to the belief Gliniewicz was the victim of a homicide, it doesn't prove it, said George Filenko, commander of the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force.

Detectives have not ruled out any other scenarios, but they continue to investigate Gliniewicz's death as a homicide, he said.

According to Filenko, the K-9 picked up the scent seemingly from Gliniewicz's .40-caliber weapon and followed it to the southeast before the dog's handler had to stop due to fatigue and dehydration.

After the handler stopped, Filenko said, the K-9 lost the scent.

"The dog tracked a scent of gunshot residue from where the weapon was recovered to the southeast for about 1,700 feet," Filenko said. "Unfortunately, the handler had to be (evacuated) out. Due to conditions, we had a number of people who had to be (evacuated)."

More at link.

Well there is the Million Dollar question answered. "Seemingly from Gliniewicz's .40 cal weapon."

Also, it is customary to rotate the dogs irregardless of heat. A well run operation has an IC center but I can't speak for this one.
Typically, IC provides the assignments that are given to the handler and their dog. They have to complete their search report in a manner that is admissible in court including details on their dogs behavior, did they alert, find evidence (which a handler does not or should NEVER handle but radio in) and GPS coordinates etc. Dogs have to take a break and rest in between assignments. I can't speak for anything as to how anything was done in this case though, just given general knowledge based on my experience.

 

[Walker007]

Sorry to quote myself, but this:

"After the handler stopped, Filenko said, the K-9 lost the scent."

Why did the K-9 lose the scent when the handler stopped? Couldn't the dog or another dog find the scent again?

I know someone else mentioned this. But it is possible whatever was carrying the scent departed in a vehicle. Hard to know without exact location. Dogs are trained to work in conjunction with their handlers who know how to read their own dogs.

 

[Solitaryone]

I'm sorry, but if this was a murder I find it very strange that LE has not been on TV asking the public for help. No appeals for anyone who knows something or might have heard something, no appeals to the public for anyone who suspects someone they know to please report whatever it is to LE. Nothing from LE except they still cannot rule out murder or suicide. That says a lot to me. I wonder if this case will be ruled undetermined?

 

[TheDuchess]

So with this new information that there was a scent trail hit by the dog that extended at least 1/4 mile southeast of his body/the weapon, does it seem as though he could have walked 1/2 mile after shooting himself? I.e. he would have needed to shot himself in the vest, enough to make gpr. Then walk 1/4 mile into the swamp, then circle back for another 1/4 mile where he would have ultimately shot himself? I can't recall the exact timeline, but I how long did it take the first responders to get there? I would imagine that he wouldn't have had a lot of time, unless he made the first shot and then made the walk through the swamp to scatter the gpr scent? Then walk back to make the calls? Also, does anyone know if he used a dash mike or a lapel mike to call in? The reason I ask this is because if he needed to go back to the car after doing all of this, the scent trail would have also led back to the car. So if he had to use the radio in the car, I don't think he could have done it that quickly. He would have had about 5 minutes to run a 1/2 mile through the brush and back in time to pull the trigger for the last time before anyone arrived to hear it.

I'm confused about this new information, but can certainly see why this may well point to the possibility of a murder.

 

[TheDuchess]

I'm sorry, but if this was a murder I find it very strange that LE has not been on TV asking the public for help. No appeals for anyone who knows something or might have heard something, no appeals to the public for anyone who suspects someone they know to please report whatever it is to LE. Nothing from LE except they still cannot rule out murder or suicide. That says a lot to me. I wonder if this case will be ruled undetermined?

Does anyone know what happens to the death benefit if it is ruled undetermined? If undetermined, it really isn't certain he died in the line of duty, and not certain it was a suicide, so how do they determine the death benefit?

 

[Walker007]

I was playing around with Bing today. Gives a different perspective in my mind. Interesting how close someone could have got into a vehicle and fled the area, not at all how I was envisioning. Also, brought to mind with all the trucking and work type vehicles in the general vicinity. Could the 3 suspects have been working in the area or brought to the area to do something at one of these businesses and easily left without being found due to never finishing what was planned for the area? Just thinking out loud. Here are some of the shots. Pardon my lazy post as I am tired and will add more thoughts tomorrow.

Also, does anyone know what the white looking tubing is in the trees? (In the middle pic) Kinda creepy as looks like a face in but no different than seeing shapes in clouds.

 

[TheDuchess]

I haven't been able to keep up with this case lately so forgive me for asking these questions.

What do you mean if they hadn't made his funeral into a hero parade? Are you saying you don't think he deserved a police officer's hero parade? How has that changed anything? Don't you think his family does think Joe is a hero in their eyes? Even if he did commit suicide, which I am still not convinced he did, he served the community well for 30 years and was extremely well liked from what I have read.

I don't blame any grieving family member for coming out trying to dispel rumors that are on the internet.

I don't think what he does or does not do is affecting anything or anyone and certainly not the ongoing investigation. This is Joe's son and his take on things are very understandable.

I have seen other family members in past cases also come out in the media about rumors and speculation. I find that normal for families to do especially since the internet is up and running 24/7.

I think his son needs to do what he thinks is best and what feels right to him, his brothers, and his mom.

Beautiful and completely agree with every word of this! And every single one of those people who lined up for 17 miles was there VOLUNTARILY out of respect not just for Joe, but for his family, his fellow officers, their community and their country. They were there out of respect for the police. They were there to make a statement that police lives matter too. There has been a tremendous amount of bashing of the police in the past year or two and people have been tired of remaining silent. They have seen police executed simply for being police and are done with it. They proudly stood there to send a message to the haters that they support their police. No matter what this case turns out to be, it certainly spurred a lot of emotion with a lot of people.