IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

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They need to check the swamp with ground penetrating radar to make sure 3 subjects, two white male one black male, aren't rotting away after having run into the swamp and being swallowed up by the swamp.

We had a lot of rain the first half or two thirds of the summer. I have no idea how quickly those swamps dry out...... but considering how bizzare this case has been, who knows maybe the three got swallowed by the swamp.
 
They need to check the swamp with ground penetrating radar to make sure 3 subjects, two white male one black male, aren't rotting away after having run into the swamp and being swallowed up by the swamp.

We had a lot of rain the first half or two thirds of the summer. I have no idea how quickly those swamps dry out...... but considering how bizzare this case has been, who knows maybe the three got swallowed by the swamp.

Enter, the cadaver dogs...... JMO
 
I am grateful they closed down the airspace for two square miles otherwise we would have heard how they are working closely with the FAA to rule out the suspects were airlifted out of the swamp.

/s
 
Good comments. I was also wondering in which direction did the dog track? Towards the swamp or towards Lt. CG's vehicle?
I would also like to know what agency this dog was from and what it trained to track.
 
I would also like to know what agency this dog was from and what it trained to track.

Yeah, what was the sample that it scented from? Remember the rumor about extra DNA on CG's gun? Scent from that? JMO
 
How many police chief jobs did Gliniewicz apply for? When did he start applying? Is there some sort of mandated retirement date in Fox Lake for police officers? Why would he quit one job before obtaining another if that was his plan all along? Was it the double-dipping possibility that he was relying on?

No matter what, there was something else going on with him, imo.
 
I don't think that he could have pulled off double-dipping. The Explorers leadership role was voluntary, I believe. JMO
 
I don't know how Illinois works but it is possible he planned to receive retirement from Fox Lake while getting another paycheck from another PD which is a form of double dipping. Most states have loopholes between counties and between state and town.
 
What is this discussion regarding the dogs stopping because of heat?

Was that really said by someone on the task force?

I don't think it was discussed here.....wondering if it was an answer to a reporter that we did not hear, because we did not see the whole presser. JMO
 
It seems as though the "suicide posters" were kind of the odd men out at the beginning of this case and served as "devil's advocates." Now it seems as though more people are leaning in that direction and those of us still on the fence as the "murder posters" might need to now take on the roll of "devil's advocates," so hear I go. I would like to put forth several questions that I have that are keeping me from being sold on the suicide theory:

1.) Many are pointing to possible discouragement of not finding a job with another police department soon enough as a possible motive for suicide and collecting a death benefit for his family. But that is a big stretch for a healthy, physically fit man at least 20 years behind necessary retirement. Also, it seems as though he hadn't even formally decided to retire, nor was he being forced to retire at 52 years old. He could have certainly continued his work with FLPD and even looked into plenty of other avenues of employment. With his experience and skill set, he could have a career with a number of different places, even as a consultant, a trainer, an investigator, etc... It would seem as though he would have had an endless plethora of options available to him outside of the Chief of Police for Antioch.

2.) His persona - aside from a couple of short posts about disappointment in not landing the job in Antioch and being in debt, he seemed to retain his positive spirit that he seemed to display his entire life. Suicide is the result of hopelessness, IMO, and he seemed about as far away as hopeless as can possibly be. Many people have challenges finding a job, college debt, etc...but they don't commit suicide. Why him? Why now? After living a perfectly successful life, taking on and conquering challenges throughout, suddenly become so despondent as to feel the only solution was suicide.

3.) Failed self-injury attempt - I don't buy this for a moment - if he wanted it to look like an injury, he could have chosen several other places to shoot himself than in the chest. A knee cap would have sufficed.

4.) On duty/off duty situation - much has been made of his time of arrival and whether or not he reported to roll call. If he had planned this event, he would have insured he was officially "on duty" at the time of his death, and therefore, there would be no question as to whether or not he was actually "on duty."

5.) Suspects - knowing what he knows about the town he policed for 30 years, he would have known there would be videos of the area. If he had chosen these 3 suspects at random, why choose 3 suspects that can certainly be found and ruled out almost immediately? If anything, if he had seen these 3 he would likely choose someone completely different. And if he truly planned it out, which I believe he would have, he would have chosen every detail of what he was going to say to dispatch well ahead of time.

6.) The plan - he would have known full well the risk he was taking in the endeavor to try to do this. Everything was riding on this. Get it wrong and your family is not only out the death benefit, but also out their breadwinner and their beloved father. He seemed a very loving man, and I don't think he would have put his family through this without crossing every t and dotting every i. If this turns out to be suicide, I think it was a sloppy one, and I would be very surprised that this man, in particular, would have been this sloppy when it comes to the single most important event of his life, with no turning back.

7.) BLM - I don't think that has anything to do with it. Tons of cops and tons of my own friends post stuff on their FB either pro or con such a hot political issue. Nothing he has ever posted was anything much more than re-sharing previously design posts from other people - most of which I have seen all over my own FB friend's profiles as well. If he were to want to go out and try sticking it to BLM, he would have chosen a different situation - he would have said 2 black male, or 3 black male, or even 2 black 1 white. 2 white 1 black would really do nothing to BLM so much as just the more general anti-cop sentiment.

8.) No trace - hmmm....I know of so many cases out there that have had the same result. Someone obviously murdered yet no scent trail, no physical evidence, just completely inexplicable. Look at the Brown's Chicken case. I think there were several people slaughtered with no leads. Until years later someone talked, and luckily, someone chose to keep the food in the trash and was able to compare the DNA to a suspect. Not every crime is solved and those that are, generally take more than 3 weeks. I think it is extremely early in the investigation to come to any conculsions.

9.) In defense of LE, even if it is a suicide - there is a LOT riding on this. If they rule it as a suicide too early, that family, a cops family, is out in the cold. I see nothing wrong with them waiting until every test is complete and that every other option is eliminated, before ruling it a suicide and thus, closing the case. Even if the off-chance that it isn't a suicide, it will be very difficult to ever determine once the case is closed.

10.) Possible accident - could be possible, although unlikely - perhaps he did investigate 3 people and off they ran. He follows, gets to the marsh, and is spooked by something. perhaps he accidentally shoots himself. It has been known to happen. There is something called sympathetic muscle response, or something to that effect. I don't know everything there is to know, but if he was drawing his weapon and he tripped or was startled by a sound, and his finger was reaching for the gun and the trigger, it could have caused him to accidentally shoot himself. Perhaps the 2nd shot was from the gun falling or an involuntary reaction in reach back for the gun. Stranger things have happened.

Anyway, until I hear definitive word from LE that this is a suicide, I am quite comfortable (and I drive through FL all the time) with allowing the police to continue their investigation until they are 100% confident in a resolution.
 
Really well thought out, TD, I respect your opinion, just don't agree with it entirely. Everyone is banking on the 3 persons of interest having actually existed. If they did not, the whole story changes. JMO
 
It seems as though the "suicide posters" were kind of the odd men out at the beginning of this case and served as "devil's advocates." Now it seems as though more people are leaning in that direction and those of us still on the fence as the "murder posters" might need to now take on the roll of "devil's advocates," so hear I go. I would like to put forth several questions that I have that are keeping me from being sold on the suicide theory:

1.) Many are pointing to possible discouragement of not finding a job with another police department soon enough as a possible motive for suicide and collecting a death benefit for his family. But that is a big stretch for a healthy, physically fit man at least 20 years behind necessary retirement. Also, it seems as though he hadn't even formally decided to retire, nor was he being forced to retire at 52 years old. He could have certainly continued his work with FLPD and even looked into plenty of other avenues of employment. With his experience and skill set, he could have a career with a number of different places, even as a consultant, a trainer, an investigator, etc... It would seem as though he would have had an endless plethora of options available to him outside of the Chief of Police for Antioch.

2.) His persona - aside from a couple of short posts about disappointment in not landing the job in Antioch and being in debt, he seemed to retain his positive spirit that he seemed to display his entire life. Suicide is the result of hopelessness, IMO, and he seemed about as far away as hopeless as can possibly be. Many people have challenges finding a job, college debt, etc...but they don't commit suicide. Why him? Why now? After living a perfectly successful life, taking on and conquering challenges throughout, suddenly become so despondent as to feel the only solution was suicide.

3.) Failed self-injury attempt - I don't buy this for a moment - if he wanted it to look like an injury, he could have chosen several other places to shoot himself than in the chest. A knee cap would have sufficed.

4.) On duty/off duty situation - much has been made of his time of arrival and whether or not he reported to roll call. If he had planned this event, he would have insured he was officially "on duty" at the time of his death, and therefore, there would be no question as to whether or not he was actually "on duty."

5.) Suspects - knowing what he knows about the town he policed for 30 years, he would have known there would be videos of the area. If he had chosen these 3 suspects at random, why choose 3 suspects that can certainly be found and ruled out almost immediately? If anything, if he had seen these 3 he would likely choose someone completely different. And if he truly planned it out, which I believe he would have, he would have chosen every detail of what he was going to say to dispatch well ahead of time.

6.) The plan - he would have known full well the risk he was taking in the endeavor to try to do this. Everything was riding on this. Get it wrong and your family is not only out the death benefit, but also out their breadwinner and their beloved father. He seemed a very loving man, and I don't think he would have put his family through this without crossing every t and dotting every i. If this turns out to be suicide, I think it was a sloppy one, and I would be very surprised that this man, in particular, would have been this sloppy when it comes to the single most important event of his life, with no turning back.

7.) BLM - I don't think that has anything to do with it. Tons of cops and tons of my own friends post stuff on their FB either pro or con such a hot political issue. Nothing he has ever posted was anything much more than re-sharing previously design posts from other people - most of which I have seen all over my own FB friend's profiles as well. If he were to want to go out and try sticking it to BLM, he would have chosen a different situation - he would have said 2 black male, or 3 black male, or even 2 black 1 white. 2 white 1 black would really do nothing to BLM so much as just the more general anti-cop sentiment.

8.) No trace - hmmm....I know of so many cases out there that have had the same result. Someone obviously murdered yet no scent trail, no physical evidence, just completely inexplicable. Look at the Brown's Chicken case. I think there were several people slaughtered with no leads. Until years later someone talked, and luckily, someone chose to keep the food in the trash and was able to compare the DNA to a suspect. Not every crime is solved and those that are, generally take more than 3 weeks. I think it is extremely early in the investigation to come to any conculsions.

9.) In defense of LE, even if it is a suicide - there is a LOT riding on this. If they rule it as a suicide too early, that family, a cops family, is out in the cold. I see nothing wrong with them waiting until every test is complete and that every other option is eliminated, before ruling it a suicide and thus, closing the case. Even if the off-chance that it isn't a suicide, it will be very difficult to ever determine once the case is closed.

10.) Possible accident - could be possible, although unlikely - perhaps he did investigate 3 people and off they ran. He follows, gets to the marsh, and is spooked by something. perhaps he accidentally shoots himself. It has been known to happen. There is something called sympathetic muscle response, or something to that effect. I don't know everything there is to know, but if he was drawing his weapon and he tripped or was startled by a sound, and his finger was reaching for the gun and the trigger, it could have caused him to accidentally shoot himself. Perhaps the 2nd shot was from the gun falling or an involuntary reaction in reach back for the gun. Stranger things have happened.

Anyway, until I hear definitive word from LE that this is a suicide, I am quite comfortable (and I drive through FL all the time) with allowing the police to continue their investigation until they are 100% confident in a resolution.





1) If suicide we may never know why he did it and even if we have evidence suggesting why be might have done it that explanation will be irrelevant because what is a huge deal to one person is not to another and visa versa. So, his reasoning or personality or social situation doesn't matter to a coroner whether it was suicide or not.

2) See number 1 above.

3) I don't buy the failed self injury either because it makes no sense logically but then again who knows exactly how logical he was to begin with....

4) I doubt he was thinking about the on duty situation at all because so many LEO believe they are covered 24/7 no matter what if they are in uniform or driving a marked car. I just think his dept was being a bit fraudulent in getting the story out a few days later that he had started duty just minutes before when they previously said he was on his way to work. It doesn't matter much because the insurance will get to the bottom of that.

5) I am not sure he expected much of an investigation once they sort of ran into a dead end with the suspects. And I think had his family and and friends not turned his death into such a show we wouldn't even be here discussing whether the three ever existed. In a a way they are the ones who shined the spotlight on the inconsistencies. And as I said before with all the BLM fears among LE right now I am not sure he didn't have some motive..... And as it stands his limited description was just enough to set off a 400 person manhunt when he may never have wanted that....

6) If he was suicidal then he was assuming he would be dead soon anyway so might as well attempt to collect more for the wife and go out a hero
We never know what people are thinking and he may have thought this was the most loving way to go.
And again it wasn't that sloppy. He has gotten away with an entire task force spending millions thinking it is homicide.

7) If he made them up he had a reason which we may never know. If he didn't then they were what they were. I still maintain he didn't have to give any description so why would someone supposedly so smart and caring and attuned to the neighborhood even bother? If he made them up?

8) Not familiar with that case but in this incident we did have multiple agencies on site pretty quick for them to have such limited evidence. Assuming what they have isn't much beyond what they have given publicly to the point even the coroner is lost.
Had this not been a cop they would have ruled suicide two weeks ago....

9) There is a lot riding on every investigation and this one should never have been treated special just because he was a cop and his family might be out $700,000 plus if this is ruled a suicide.
They would not have done half this DNA if he wasn't a cop. Nor keep everything waiting on one scent trail from 1 of 48 dogs because there never would have been 48 dogs. Nor would they have done door to door checks or swabbings etc...
It just makes me angry that they went far above what they do for any other murder victim especially when on the face of it it seemed to appear as a suicide even if it wasn't. And if it turns out it was suicide and they have continued to throw money at this investigation people should be livid. We do not have unlimited resources for investigations well, unless the crime is against a cop it seems.

10) From what we have heard regarding evidence an accident seems unlikely.


We may never be 100% sure of anything. It comes down to the preponderance of evidence or totality of evidence and what makes the most logical sense. The coroner won't wait for 100% as he is not required by law to do so. He may choose the MOD that is most likely based on evidence.
 
Thank-you, just started reading the comments, interesting.

Both of the authors twitter accounts are private, I'm not a twitterer so I can't read them. The statement about the handler of the tracking dog was in their article. Covelli was not quoted for that statement. It must have come from authorities, as stated, but what authorities we do not know. JMO
 
Ex US Marshall:
http://wgntv.com/2015/09/22/security-analyst-john-omalley-with-latest-on-fox-lake-investigation/

Doesn't understand the purpose of last nights news conf unless to just tell us they got ballistics back and met with Rudd.
Missed opportunity at news conf to remind that there is a reward and encourage the three suspects to turn themselves in.
Thinks this case is unusual and at this point the task force would look better if they allowed someone else to come in and take a look at the evidence just to get a second opinion.
 
“I know my father, my family knows my father and his closest friends know him well, he's not someone who ever contemplated suicide, he never had suicidal tendencies or anything like that, that's just a rumor, and that's that, it is a rumor, it is something someone made up because they wanted to interpret the story on their own, I full-heartedly disagree with that statement, although I can't change that person, that individual's mind of creating that saying,” DJ said.

Interview (video) with Anderson Cooper http://wgntv.com/2015/09/22/son-of-...k-against-reports-that-dad-committed-suicide/
 
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