Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #6 *Arrest*

[agilbe]

Thank you Skigirl. I live in a big hunting state as well, but you hear about that sort of thing every now and then. People crossing the border across the desert, now that's a different thing. THAT we have a lot of.

 

[Angleterre]

... other than one of the participants.

Does this mean there's more than one? Or just legalese?

Personally I believe that it is just legal terminology i.e. Two participants and led to the death to the other one of the participants JMOO


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[Angleterre]

“an especially heinous, cruel, or depraved manner, in that it involved torture or serious physical abuse” … I can’t hardly get those words (from the indictment) out of my mind! Does anyone who explored his activity on the fetish life site recall ANY threads (or whatever) that hinted of “heinous” torture or cruelty even in a fantasy way (my impression was that that was beyond the limits of the site)?? Others here have previously speculated that BC may have visited more hardcore, depraved sites, and now I wonder too where he got his ‘ideas,’ though I don’t think anyone ever found any specific links with his aliases?

BTW, the Oct. 11 arraignment date I quoted earlier is mentioned at the end of this CNN report (but odd that more news outlets aren't mentioning it):
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/us/illinois-missing-chinese-student-suspect-charges/index.html

Just thinking and speculating out loud ... please tell me if this Is not within TOS
But offenders who carry out these sexual crimes often do so because part of the attraction for them is 'Control' and having the power over life v death.
One form of such torture is leading the victim down the path of asphyxiation and reviving them at the very last minute and continuing to do so numerous times to 'get off' on the fear shown by the Victim and their own control and power over life and death . And when he had done this a few times, he then committed the ultimate asphyxiation that led to death ??? It's an awful thought but in past SK cases where there has been torture, albeit there have been other forms of torture employed, this is a popular form amongst those depraved monsters.

As I say just thinking aloud - I apologise if this is upsetting to some of our WS members but that's what we are here for ( collectively thinking through scenarios with a view to assist the investigation along )

MOO


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[Spellbound]

Angleterre, I appreciate your intuitive and careful posts. This was just fine. That is a possibility here. But it still leaves us wondering where is her body.... I hope we learn that.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Thank you Skigirl. I live in a big hunting state as well, but you hear about that sort of thing every now and then. People crossing the border across the desert, now that's a different thing. THAT we have a lot of.

Well, hunting is hit and miss, but harvesting covers every inch of field. Unfortunately, I would suppose much damage would be done to the remains. The combines are huge and the corn is ten feet tall so they aren't going to see anything until it's too late.

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[kittythehare]

Just thinking and speculating out loud ... please tell me if this Is not within TOS
But offenders who carry out these sexual crimes often do so because part of the attraction for them is 'Control' and having the power over life v death.
One form of such torture is leading the victim down the path of asphyxiation and reviving them at the very last minute and continuing to do so numerous times to 'get off' on the fear shown by the Victim and their own control and power over life and death . And when he had done this a few times, he then committed the ultimate asphyxiation that led to death ??? It's an awful thought but in past SK cases where there has been torture, albeit there have been other forms of torture employed, this is a popular form amongst those depraved monsters.

As I say just thinking aloud - I apologise if this is upsetting to some of our WS members but that's what we are here for ( collectively thinking through scenarios with a view to assist the investigation along )

MOO


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tHANKS. wE'RE LESS DELICATE these days than at the beginning!

the asphyxiation fantasy could have been played out with any of his sexual partners though..

I think this provided some kind of 'ultimate' challenge or ambition for him.. something he had not done before but clearly intended doing again, 'pointing out potential victims' at vigil..

For quite a while was thinking there was a commercial aspect to the kidnapping/murder.. possibly a snuff movie..
Now, if we are to believe all this activity took place in his apartment, over one weekend while his flatmate was away. it should have left tons of forensic evidence..

BUT, the 'kidnapping causing death' clause was just added at last hearing, suggesting any forensic evidence found originally was insufficient to prove death or very much at all...
It is quite possible and even likely he would have been well versed in clean-up procedures..

I think its highly likely he filmed his actions, I think its equally likely he had sufficient time to hide this evidence.

I think the manner of her death was highly depraved, something we have not deeply discussed here yet..

But if he brought her home, to his apartment, it can possibly be concluded that he always intended killing her..
The term heinous has a legal definition as well as a general English language definition.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=073000050K5-8-1

and https://www.puryearlaw.com/2015/12/04/heinous-battery-charges-in-illinois/
This is fed case tho'
How did she die?
Wheres her body?
Did anybody else visit that apartment that weekend?

 

[Angleterre]

tHANKS. wE'RE LESS DELICATE these days than at the beginning!

the asphyxiation fantasy could have been played out with any of his sexual partners though..

I think this provided some kind of 'ultimate' challenge or ambition for him.. something he had not done before but clearly intended doing again, 'pointing out potential victims' at vigil..

For quite a while was thinking there was a commercial aspect to the kidnapping/murder.. possibly a snuff movie..
Now, if we are to believe all this activity took place in his apartment, over one weekend while his flatmate was away. it should have left tons of forensic evidence..

BUT, the 'kidnapping causing death' clause was just added at last hearing, suggesting any forensic evidence found originally was insufficient to prove death or very much at all...
It is quite possible and even likely he would have been well versed in clean-up procedures..

I think its highly likely he filmed his actions, I think its equally likely he had sufficient time to hide this evidence.

I think the manner of her death was highly depraved, something we have not deeply discussed here yet..

But if he brought her home, to his apartment, it can possibly be concluded that he always intended killing her..
The term heinous has a legal definition as well as a general English language definition.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=073000050K5-8-1

and https://www.puryearlaw.com/2015/12/04/heinous-battery-charges-in-illinois/
This is fed case tho'
How did she die?
Wheres her body?
Did anybody else visit that apartment that weekend?

It could have been acted out with any of his partners , yes of course, BUT the ultimate of getting them close to death and reviving them would be a risk too far with a 'willing' partner IMOO
So maybe he kidnapped YY with a view to doing this and knowing that he could kill her , and if one of the asphyxiations she was subjected to and her revival wasn't possible as he had gone too far, , it wouldn't matter ( to him ).
Also, another potential as to why no forensic evidence found.

As a senior investigation officer (SIO) and having been to many murder scenes, even if cleaned up afterward, there is always some forensic evidence to be found , however minute. But there is less likely that any will be found if he killed her through auto erotic asphyxiation. Just MOO


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[kittythehare]

It could have been acted out with any of his partners , yes of course, BUT the ultimate of getting them close to death and reviving them would be a risk too far with a 'willing' partner IMOO
So maybe he kidnapped YY with a view to doing this and knowing that he could kill her , and if one of the asphyxiations she was subjected to and her revival wasn't possible as he had gone too far, , it wouldn't matter ( to him ).
Also, another potential as to why no forensic evidence found.

As a senior investigation officer (SIO) and having been to many murder scenes, even if cleaned up afterward, there is always some forensic evidence to be found , however minute. But there is less likely that any will be found if he killed her through auto erotic asphyxiation. Just MOO


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Good thinking..
That makes perfect sense.
In that case its unlikely he dismembered her body prior to disposal or carried out any act likely to leave a blood track?
Which would mean he would have had to carry her intact body out of his place ..
Do you have any ideas at all on how he might have disposed of her?
Do you have any ideas why no prolonged official search was carried out?

 

[Webthrush]

Do we still have any attorneys here following this case? — some of the past questions I’ve asked for lawyer responses haven’t gotten a reply, but I’ll try another one:
By now would BC’s defense team already have all the evidence that the police/prosecution team must hand over to them (that led to the new indictments), or does it take longer to transfer all that evidence over?
I ask in part because I’m wondering at what point the plea might change to innocent by reason of insanity, if the evidence is clearcut enough to show he committed the crime.
Relatedly, is it possible/likely that BC has already undergone psychiatric examination on behalf of the defense team, or would we have heard about it if it were the case?

 

[Chambana]

I found a flaw in BC possible defense in that he “picked up a distressed Chinese student and she panicked after he made a wrong turn, and he dropped her off” as he told FBI authorities.

From the corner of Clark and Goodwin where YY was observed entering BC vehicle at 2:04PM, from that location to her lease signing at one north on Lincoln avenue, is roughly a 7-9 minute drive, property Manager texts YY at 2:38PM and gets no response, meaning she is already in the hands of BC. So the theory that he took a wrong turn to Lincoln avenue apartments is false, as a wrong turn would have only taken minutes to make the mistake.


This guy is an absolute monster. The more and more I think about it, the more and more I think this isn’t his first rodeo. Had it not been for the rare make and model of his Saturn, I truly believe he would have gotten away with this.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I found a flaw in BC possible defense in that he “picked up a distressed Chinese student and she panicked after he made a wrong turn, and he dropped her off” as he told FBI authorities.

From the corner of Clark and Goodwin where YY was observed entering BC vehicle at 2:04PM, from that location to her lease signing at one north on Lincoln avenue, is roughly a 7-9 minute drive, property Manager texts YY at 2:38PM and gets no response, meaning she is already in the hands of BC. So the theory that he took a wrong turn to Lincoln avenue apartments is false, as a wrong turn would have only taken minutes to make the mistake.


This guy is an absolute monster. The more and more I think about it, the more and more I think this isn’t his first rodeo. Had it not been for the rare make and model of his Saturn, I truly believe he would have gotten away with this.

So he would have had to have made a wrong turn and let her out before 02.13 at the latest. Also, the 02.38 text generated the ping at the Terminal, which was only 2.6 miles from his apartment, in the opposite direction to her destination.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Good thinking..
That makes perfect sense.
In that case its unlikely he dismembered her body prior to disposal or carried out any act likely to leave a blood track?
Which would mean he would have had to carry her intact body out of his place ..
Do you have any ideas at all on how he might have disposed of her?
Do you have any ideas why no prolonged official search was carried out?

She wasn't very tall so I think he would have had no problem putting her into a large gym bag or wheeled suitcase. Living on the lower floor (I think that was determined) getting the bag/suitcase out to his car would not have presented a problem to him IMO. In fact that could be how he got her in too if he had a garage and drove into that to gag and tie her up beforehand. JMO.

 

[Laughing]

So he would have had to have made a wrong turn and let her out before 02.13 at the latest. Also, the 02.38 text generated the ping at the Terminal, which was only 2.6 miles from his apartment, in the opposite direction to her destination.

IIRC, BC stated that he let her out in a residential area.

I wonder if his trip there with LEOs was kinda like Casey Anthony taking LEOs to Universal Studios?

Hope his selected "residential area" has lots of stay-at-home folks & lots of cameras...and no black Saturn hatchbacks at all!

 

[Calzone]

Do you have any ideas why no prolonged official search was carried out?

Because there was absolutely no indication of where she could be to a degree that would make a search an even remotely practical use of resources.

You've asked this question numerous times. She was last seen getting into a car. A mode of transport with a range that is only limited by natural barriers like oceans. We know she was immediately transported from the location she was last seen at. Where would you suggest a search begin and why? Know that less than 15 minutes in any direction from the bus stop you will find thousands of acres of nothing, farm fields. Within 30 minutes, you will find numerous abandoned strip mines hundreds of feet deep. Before answering, remember that every barn, shed, warehouse, garage, home, and abonded property is privately owned by someone and would require permission to search.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Because there was absolutely no indication of where she could be to a degree that would make a search an even remotely practical use of resources.

You've asked this question numerous times. She was last seen getting into a car. A mode of transport with a range that is only limited by natural barriers like oceans. We know she was immediately transported from the location she was last seen at. Where would you suggest a search begin and why? Know that less than 15 minutes in any direction from the bus stop you will find thousands of acres of nothing, farm fields. Within 30 minutes, you will find numerous abandoned strip mines hundreds of feet deep. Before answering, remember that every barn, shed, warehouse, garage, home, and abonded property is privately owned by someone and would require permission to search.

Maybe start with dragging that big lake right next to his apartment block? He didn't go far to find someone to abduct so I bet he didn't go far to dispose of her either. He thought he was too clever to be caught but forgot about cctv?

 

[Satchie]

I'm sure a lot of searching was done of surveillance video to try to follow his route after he got her in the car. And then, if he took her to his home, where he went in his car afterwards. Has it' been discussed, whether there are cameras around the apartments?

 

[kittythehare]

Because there was absolutely no indication of where she could be to a degree that would make a search an even remotely practical use of resources.

You've asked this question numerous times. She was last seen getting into a car. A mode of transport with a range that is only limited by natural barriers like oceans. We know she was immediately transported from the location she was last seen at. Where would you suggest a search begin and why? Know that less than 15 minutes in any direction from the bus stop you will find thousands of acres of nothing, farm fields. Within 30 minutes, you will find numerous abandoned strip mines hundreds of feet deep. Before answering, remember that every barn, shed, warehouse, garage, home, and abonded property is privately owned by someone and would require permission to search.

And I will continue to ask this question until I receive an answer.
are yOU suggesting people should not try to locate missing people if they go missing in this particular location or anywhere at all?
I will ask and I will ask again and again and again.

 

[altojack]

And I will continue to ask this question until I receive an answer.
are yOU suggesting people should not try to locate missing people if they go missing in this particular location or anywhere at all?
I will ask and I will ask again and again and again.

Youre not going to get you're answer here are you. You are in the wrong place to receive your answer. At the moment BC is the one who has the answer and he's keeping that information to himself for now.

as far as not trying to locate YY, searches were done early on but we're looking at such a vast rural area along with private properties and land. Were would you like to start. A months holiday in Urbana and you still wouldn't find her ��

 

[kittythehare]

Youre not going to get you're answer here are you. You are in the wrong place to receive your answer. At the moment BC is the one who has the answer and he's keeping that information to himself for now.

as far as not trying to locate YY, searches were done early on but we're looking at such a vast rural area along with private properties and land. Were would you like to start. A months holiday in Urbana and you still wouldn't find her 😎

I am actually aware of all you are saying Jack..
But one could say the same for every missing person in any geographical location in the world..
I have trudged and tracked seashores day after day, week after week in search of bodies washed in by the tide.. sometimes they do come in, sometimes, never.. but its good to make effort.
YY's landscape is not actually planet Mars.. its just a place like any other geographically.
My question was actually to a new poster and I wondered whether he/she had any theories, btw.
Searches ceased because FBI 'believed her to be dead, yet failed to lop on the 'causing death' clause to the kidnap charge until the very last hearing.

To the best of my knowledge, that is why the searches ceased, abruptly.

 

[Webthrush]

RE: all the talk of (lack of) searches, again I think LE knows much more than they’ve said… Given the certainty with which they assumed her deceased from time of arrest on, and yet the absence of major searching, I now believe it's because they know there is no body to be found. Her remnants are either incinerated or otherwise in an unretrievable state. I can’t recall another well-publicized case, where both police and public searches, in at least a small radius, didn’t occur no matter how difficult they might be. It's frustrating that police can't seem to say anything, even generally, about how they concluded she's deceased or what they know of her disposal.