Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #152 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[kittythehare]

There’s always the ole coffee cup trick, samples seized from trash put out on the curb which is technically public street property, cigarette butt if he smoked, ole stake out at restaurant silverware/cup/straw trick...if they wanted his DNA for comparison testing, assuming they have an original sample, they would have gotten it no problem under surveillance, even if he refused, imo. And it would all be legal, we’ve seen it a million times on countless true crime documentary shows, jmo.

Eta: I’ve seen when even perps are aware of this and try to cover their tracks, they make mistakes. I’ve seen where they collect their own butts after smoking, etc. thinking they’re ahead of the game.

They’ll get ya.

Thinking the same.
But I am not at all sure he left DNA.
If he had would they not have caught him sooner?
Small town, he was profiled by 2019 cumbersome but probably not hugely expensive to get the coffee cups for the couple of hundred that I imagine would live there with similar physical characteristics.

I'm new to case so please forgive my ignorance when I ask why was there just this single act if he was a lone operator?

Did it fulfil him sufficiently and under what circumstances is this likely or possible?

Nice gentle bloke, helpful and kind.
Does this.
Immediately returns to helpful and kind.
Nothing else happens in the next 5 years?

 

[The Observer]

I read LE believes the bodies were moved and staged so I am curious where the actual murders took place and if he had help. I don't see how he could have moved either girl once deceased. I wonder if the plan was to take one of the girls as a hostage and that plan did not work out so both ended up being killed. I suggest this because we have heard of victims being kept hidden away. What creates such a monster? Interesting he had wife order and they shared meals. Definitely be interested if this was new behavior.

Not necessarily had help. The fact it's been said numerous times how much blood was at the scene where bodies were found says the bodies weren't moved/staged far from where they died. He could have easily dragged one or both to stage/pose.

 

[Sneaker33]

For me, the part I bolded below says a whole lot more than the sum of the words. To me it sounds like they had their best, and most solid evidence against RA, yet are working on tying other(s) into the case. It's like so much was said without saying very much.

“While I know you are all expecting final details today concerning this arrest, today is not that day,” he said.

“We are going to continue a very methodical and committed approach to ensure that if any other person had any involvement in these murders in any way, that person or persons will be held accountable.”

My apologies in advance for this silly metaphor: The box is almost ready to be wrapped, they are just waiting to find the perfect bow to put on it. Then the present will be ready to be opened.

A man has been arrested and charged with murder in the 2017 killings of 2 teen girls in Indiana, authorities say | CNN

A man has been arrested in the case of the 2017 killings of Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14, in Delphi, Indiana, authorities said Monday.

www.cnn.com

Agree. He could have had help or be associated with other victims or individuals who hunt victims.

 

[Marysmith]

Thinking the same.
But I am not at all sure he left DNA.
If he had would they not have caught him sooner?
Small town, he was profiled by 2019 cumbersome but probably not hugely expensive to get the coffee cups for the couple of hundred that I imagine would live there with similar physical characteristics.

I'm new to case so please forgive my ignorance when I ask why was there just this single act if he was a lone operator?

Did it fulfil him sufficiently and under what circumstances is this likely or possible?

Nice gentle bloke, helpful and kind.
Does this.
Immediately returns to helpful and kind.
Nothing else happens in the next 5 years?

I agree with you. Knowing about the search of his home and everything I don’t think they have DNA anymore.

 

[Marysmith]

Posting these notes for anyone that might be interested in pin points.

Information from Barbara McDonald (Down The Hill) and the neighbour two doors up.

• Search Oct 13. Commenced just before noon - went for 12 hours. LE arrived in unmarked vehicles and clothing. LE asked Rick and Wife to exit the house.
• Rick stood in the driveway for several hours and also sat in the car with his wife for several hours. At some point the neighbour said the wife left.
• Plenty of LE just stood around for the first part of the day. As it was getting dark Chief Deputy Liggett arrived with a piece of paper in hand. He handed that paper to Rick. Immediately a tow truck arrived and to take Rick Allen's car away.
• At this point some LE entered the house and some entered the backyard. They started searching the shed and taking pictures.
• LE were using a device like a metal detector or sonar around the shed and in the flower bed. They did not dig in the flower bed but did dig up two tiny spots near shed.
• LE started bring ing items out from the house. Neighbours said 1 LE officer came out with what appeared to be 2 large bundles of dark coloured cloth. Could not be sure it was clothes, only that it was definitely cloth.
• LE also brought out a Macy's shopping bag, a shoe box and a small stack of books. Said they were thin books not thick like encyclopedia books.
• The neighbour said they were starting to get concerned and placed a call to Chief Deputy Liggett to ask what was going on and all that Liggett told them was to 'stay vigilant especially with your wife and daughters.' This unsettled them.
• The day after the search Rick went to work. The neighbour states he saw him in store and felt that Rick was continuing as if nothing happened. Neighbour said they lived life as normal til Oct 26th when Rick was detained.
• From Oct 26 the neighbours have not seen anyone at the house. They have not seen the wife since he was detained.
• House has remained empty since Oct 26.
• The neighbour said they were a normal family. They did not have visitors, no parties, etc. They were very quiet.
• Neighbour said he would see Rick arrive home from work and Rick would regularly sit in the driveway in a lawn chair having a few beers and maybe smoking some ciggarettes.
• Neighbour said they had a little bit more interaction with the wife than they did with him.

Note: I think we can assume LE sat around for hours and made sure nothing was interferred with whilst they gained a warrant for the house and car. So the search itself did not go for 12 hours.

Edit: Spelling.

Thank you so much for this!

 

[margarita25]

I’ve been receiving some crash/errors on WS all day but I would have hoped for and expected nothing less, well done. We’re still holding strong here thankfully, knock on wood, but as I said before when I envisioned this moment, I imagined we would “break WS” anyway, so glad I’m experiencing some technical lags here and there, it shows the expected flood, and hopefully helps analyze servers’ capacities for those monitoring that kind of thing on the back end.

I remember on the old software, we used to be able to see specifically the names of people in a particular thread, and the number/amount of members in a specific thread at any given time...I remember when Lizzie & Lyric’s bodies were found, the numbers of members and guests in the threads were very, very high.

—-

Eta:

Posting these notes for anyone that might be interested in pin points.

Information from Barbara McDonald (Down The Hill) and the neighbour two doors up.

• Search Oct 13. Commenced just before noon - went for 12 hours. LE arrived in unmarked vehicles and clothing. LE asked Rick and Wife to exit the house.
• Rick stood in the driveway for several hours and also sat in the car with his wife for several hours. At some point the neighbour said the wife left.
• Plenty of LE just stood around for the first part of the day. As it was getting dark Chief Deputy Liggett arrived with a piece of paper in hand. He handed that paper to Rick. Immediately a tow truck arrived and to take Rick Allen's car away.
• At this point some LE entered the house and some entered the backyard. They started searching the shed and taking pictures.
• LE were using a device like a metal detector or sonar around the shed and in the flower bed. They did not dig in the flower bed but did dig up two tiny spots near shed.
• LE started bring ing items out from the house. Neighbours said 1 LE officer came out with what appeared to be 2 large bundles of dark coloured cloth. Could not be sure it was clothes, only that it was definitely cloth.
• LE also brought out a Macy's shopping bag, a shoe box and a small stack of books. Said they were thin books not thick like encyclopedia books.
• The neighbour said they were starting to get concerned and placed a call to Chief Deputy Liggett to ask what was going on and all that Liggett told them was to 'stay vigilant especially with your wife and daughters.' This unsettled them.
• The day after the search Rick went to work. The neighbour states he saw him in store and felt that Rick was continuing as if nothing happened. Neighbour said they lived life as normal til Oct 26th when Rick was detained.
• From Oct 26 the neighbours have not seen anyone at the house. They have not seen the wife since he was detained.
• House has remained empty since Oct 26.
• The neighbour said they were a normal family. They did not have visitors, no parties, etc. They were very quiet.
• Neighbour said he would see Rick arrive home from work and Rick would regularly sit in the driveway in a lawn chair having a few beers and maybe smoking some ciggarettes.
• Neighbour said they had a little bit more interaction with the wife than they did with him.

Note: I think we can assume LE sat around for hours and made sure nothing was interferred with whilst they gained a warrant for the house and car. So the search itself did not go for 12 hours.

Edit: Spelling.

Sweet, marking, thanks.

 

[Kano]

I agree with you. Knowing about the search of his home and everything I don’t think they have DNA anymore.

i do hope this weird warrant action and process isn't saying they are light on evidence and had to talk the judge into it. Even more so with it sounding like very little evidence was taken from the scene.

 

[lgh0309]

So there will be a hearing in 30 days to determine what, if anything, can be unsealed. You can bet the media is going to be all over this, making their own filings.

That probable cause affidavit should answer many question

odd process for a raid and warrant.. Small community and worried about him hearing they were coming?

yeah this is really interesting to me…i am trying to wrap my head around the idea that it sounds like they didn’t already have the warrant when they arrived? that’s so confusing to me right now

 

[Marysmith]

i do hope this weird warrant action and process isn't saying they are light on evidence and had to talk the judge into it. Even more so with it sounding like very little evidence was taken from the scene.

I doubt it… they have been working so hard on this. I’m sure they have a lot. I am trusting in the process.

 

[Kano]

yeah this is really interesting to me…i am trying to wrap my head around the idea that it sounds like they didn’t already have the warrant when they arrived? that’s so confusing to me right now

yeah odd... Then we have the Friday thing that could be intended to give them more time but a case this old i dont know why they would suddenly rush. Now they could also have some good 'insider' info i suppose and just wanted to act fast but.. Normally on a murder they take tons of evidence in and it doesnt sound like that happened here so far from the reports we have. They either knew what they were looking for and where to look or..

 

[5W's]

Stunned Bar Owner Recalls Delphi Murder Suspect Sitting Inches Away From ‘Wanted’ Sketch

Photo Illustration by The Daily Beast / FacebookLooking back on it now, Bob Matlock can’t believe the suspect was sitting right in front of him all along.Accused double murderer and CVS pharmacy technician Richard Allen, a 50-year-old father of two charged with killing Delphi, Indiana teens...

www.yahoo.com

“He would come in and we would always talk about the girls and everything,” Matlock, 75, told The Daily Beast on Monday. “We would carry on conversations about it, he would say, you know, it’s such a tragedy, and we’d say we felt sorry for the families and all that, but we tried not to talk about it too much because we all knew the families, and were friends with the families.”

Of course outwardly it may not show. But there has to be some indication that such horror was underlying the suspect. IDK, what did he miss? He says that he knows the family outside of his business at the bar. Maybe the focus of the suspect's attention may give a clue. Did he really pay attention to what RA said or 'no." Usually an unsuspecting person may amount it to "regular hijinks" when there maybe some underlying issue, in fact.

 

[margarita25]

Weren't police communicating with his attorney starting in the summer? I was under the impression that he knew it was coming.

Cancel this. I was mixing up Kline's summer negotiations with Allen.

Edited to answer my question

I was wondering during the PC about the details between LE’s & Prosecutor M’s relationship, length of time, etc.

Some of NM’s comments from the PC / source)

Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas M:


“Before we get started I want to reiterate some of the things that Sheriff Leazenby and Superintendent Carter stated.

I first want to thank both of them, they’ve been a great support to my office throughout this investigation, and they’ve always been there for a phone call and willing to help a hand for a lot assistance to me and my office during this investigation.

I want to thank....this is the homicide task force that we’ve put together (thanks them and their families).”

 

[5W's]

odd process for a raid and warrant.. Small community and worried about him hearing they were coming?

It could be others may be involved in the crime/s or he is well known in the community and it may get back to him? Maybe he wasn't a suspect/poi until very recently? Since he was poi just recently and its been close to six years if he got any wind of LE's knowledge he might destroy evidence so they had to act quickly or he was about to commit another crime/s?

 

[gregjrichards]

Posting these notes for anyone that might be interested in pin points.

Information from Barbara McDonald (Down The Hill) and the neighbour two doors up.

• Search Oct 13. Commenced just before noon - went for 12 hours. LE arrived in unmarked vehicles and clothing. LE asked Rick and Wife to exit the house.
• Rick stood in the driveway for several hours and also sat in the car with his wife for several hours. At some point the neighbour said the wife left.
• Plenty of LE just stood around for the first part of the day. As it was getting dark Chief Deputy Liggett arrived with a piece of paper in hand. He handed that paper to Rick. Immediately a tow truck arrived and to take Rick Allen's car away.
• At this point some LE entered the house and some entered the backyard. They started searching the shed and taking pictures.
• LE were using a device like a metal detector or sonar around the shed and in the flower bed. They did not dig in the flower bed but did dig up two tiny spots near shed.
• LE started bring ing items out from the house. Neighbours said 1 LE officer came out with what appeared to be 2 large bundles of dark coloured cloth. Could not be sure it was clothes, only that it was definitely cloth.
• LE also brought out a Macy's shopping bag, a shoe box and a small stack of books. Said they were thin books not thick like encyclopedia books.
• The neighbour said they were starting to get concerned and placed a call to Chief Deputy Liggett to ask what was going on and all that Liggett told them was to 'stay vigilant especially with your wife and daughters.' This unsettled them.
• The day after the search Rick went to work. The neighbour states he saw him in store and felt that Rick was continuing as if nothing happened. Neighbour said they lived life as normal til Oct 26th when Rick was detained.
• From Oct 26 the neighbours have not seen anyone at the house. They have not seen the wife since he was detained.
• House has remained empty since Oct 26.
• The neighbour said they were a normal family. They did not have visitors, no parties, etc. They were very quiet.
• Neighbour said he would see Rick arrive home from work and Rick would regularly sit in the driveway in a lawn chair having a few beers and maybe smoking some ciggarettes.
• Neighbour said they had a little bit more interaction with the wife than they did with him.

Note: I think we can assume LE sat around for hours and made sure nothing was interferred with whilst they gained a warrant for the house and car. So the search itself did not go for 12 hours.

Edit: Spelling.

Thank you very much for posting this information @The Observer it is much appreciated.

 

[MassGuy]

odd process for a raid and warrant.. Small community and worried about him hearing they were coming?

This does strike me as a bit odd, as it seems these warrants were approved around the time law enforcement arrived (to a bit later on).

That seems to indicate that maybe this all came together fairly quickly, and there was a major break not long before this all occurred.

 

[seekingjustice**]

I wonder if LE had bugged RA's home?!

 

[5W's]

I remember reading at some point, that the bodies were left being a certain way." Actually, it was a PC, now that I think about it. The speaker was angry, and speaking directly to the killer. Does anyone else remember hearing this? He said something like "Their bodies are not the way you left them." AFAIK, they never released information publicly about how the bodies were "left". Were they posed in some way? Were they mutilated in some way? Was there something black magicky about the way they were left? Maybe the books removed had something to do with that. Or, perhaps they were child *advertiser censored* videos.

With the bodies being so bloodied as it is said that the girls lost a lot of blood, I can only imagine it was very violent. IMO there is much more to this crime than we can contemplate. It took LE 18 hours to find the bodies. It is also said that they were moved. My question is from where? If there was that much blood lost then the crime scene had to be such. LE has never stated "where this was." Does LE know? How were they moved to where they were found eventually by LE? So it seems to me there are many things we don't really know of how monstrous this actually was.

 

[kittythehare]

I am posting this for those who might be new to the case.

Snipped: Another figure in the Delphi investigation is Kegan Kline, a man charged with 30 counts of possession of child *advertiser censored*. According to investigators, Kline is behind the fake “anthony_shots” profile, a false online persona that communicated with Libby German. Transcripts obtained by The Murder Sheet podcast show the person who communicated with Libby through the “anthony_shots” persona had agreed to meet Libby around the time she went missing. Like Ron Logan, Kline has also never been charged in connection to the Delphi murders.

Delphi suspect charged with 2 counts of murder; ‘Investigation far from complete’

DELPHI, Ind. — It’s a development loved ones of Libby German and Abby Williams have long prayed for: charges filed in connection to the Delphi murder investigation. Indiana State Police annou…

fox59.com

Daughter of arrested Delphi Bridge suspect in SAME spot girls vanished

A chilling photo shows the daughter Richard Allen, 50, posing on the train bridge where Libby German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, disappeared in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The other characters discussed here too with photographs.

 

[kittythehare]

This does strike me as a bit odd, as it seems these warrants were approved around the time law enforcement arrived (to a bit later on).

That seems to indicate that maybe this all came together fairly quickly, and there was a major break not long before this all occurred.

or they had good reason to believe he was about to strike again?

 

[Andreee]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587132155477598208

This really is unbelievably creepy and shocking! I can't imagine how the Pattys must feel knowing that the girls' alleged murderer actually was involved with helping process those photos and giving them to them for free. They must be absolutely appalled and disgusted!