Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

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But could you qualify then with assets like a house?
I would find it hard to believe that you would be forced to sell your only residence in order to be represented at trial. That would have major fourth and sixth amendment implications. Now, if you had a bunch of other properties or "luxuries", I might be able to see that a little bit more. But not a modest single family home.

MOO
 
True if he is found indigent. The courts has to rule that he can not afford an attorney,
Well, he no longer has income that we know of.

The house and any other savings would be his assets. Depending on whether a divorce is going to happen he can’t rely on those solely as they would be shared assets. Not sure about KA, but I don’t think I’d be quick to hand over my share for his defence.

His wife is no longer working as indicated in his letter so right now she has no income either.

He’s in a tight spot. I’m not surprised he can’t afford a lawyer.

MOO
 
In Indiana, an indigency determination is up to the judge and it can be re-evaluated at any time. Usually, it means having "sufficient funds available to pay for the defense." :

[ETA: I pasted the wrong window at first, sorry!]


Sec. 6. (a) Prior to the completion of the initial hearing, the judicial officer shall determine whether a person who requests assigned counsel is indigent under section 6.5 of this chapter. If the person is found to be indigent, the judicial officer shall assign counsel to the person.

(b) If jurisdiction over an indigent defendant is transferred to another court, the receiving court shall assign counsel immediately upon acquiring jurisdiction over the defendant.

(c) If the court finds that the person is able to pay part of the cost of representation by the assigned counsel, the court shall order the person to pay the following:

(1) For a felony action, a fee of one hundred dollars ($100).

(2) For a misdemeanor action, a fee of fifty dollars ($50).

If the court orders the person to pay an amount described in subdivision (1) or (2), the court shall inquire at sentencing whether the person has paid the required amount. The clerk of the court shall deposit fees collected under this subsection in the county's supplemental public defender services fund established under IC 33-40-3-1.

(d) The court may review the finding of indigency at any time during the proceedings if:

(1) the court receives evidence of a material change in the person's income or assets; or

(2) the person has failed to provide the court with sufficient evidence, including documentary evidence, to sustain the court's initial indigency determination.

INDIGENCY DETERMINATION:

Sec. 6.5. (a) In determining whether a person is indigent, the court shall consider the following:

(1) The person's assets.

(2) The person's income.

(3) The person's necessary expenses.

(b) The court may consider that a person's eligibility for:

(1) the federal Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) (except for 21 U.S.C. 862a(a));

(2) the federal and Indiana TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) program (except for 21 U.S.C. 862a(a)); or

(3) another need based public assistance program;

constitutes sufficient evidence to establish that a person is indigent.

(c) The court may issue an initial indigency determination pending receipt of documentary or other evidence from the person concerning the person's income, assets, expenses, or welfare eligibility.

(d) If the court finds that the person is able to pay some of the fines, fees, and court costs, the court may prorate the person's fine, fee, and court costs, and require the person to pay an amount that the person can reasonably afford.
 
My understanding it is totally up to you as a judgement call if you can "afford" an attorney or need a public defender.

Just mounting a decent defense in a case of double homicide would be $80,000 minimum when it is all said and done. ESPECIALLY with inevitable travel expenses when they move the trial to somewhere else in Indiana.
To mount an effective defense in a case of this scale and publicity would be at a minimum $300-$500K IMO.

ETA: @Alethea Maybe you could provide a more accurate guess?
 
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Well, he no longer has income that we know of.

The house and any other savings would be his assets. Depending on whether a divorce is going to happen he can’t rely on those solely as they would be shared assets. Not sure about KA, but I don’t think I’d be quick to hand over my share for his defence.

His wife is no longer working as indicated in his letter so right now she has no income either.

He’s in a tight spot. I’m not surprised he can’t afford a lawyer.

MOO
I understand the rationale here and agree with what you've posted Tealgrove, but I just don't have it in my heart to care if RA is in a tight spot.

I think they should be able to take half of the joint assets for his defense. Why should the State of IN (including the community he terrorized) be forced to pay for his defense of murdering 2 innocent young girls when he clearly has some financial assets? IDK

MOO
 
I understand the rationale here and agree with what you've posted Tealgrove, but I just don't have it in my heart to care if RA is in a tight spot.

I think they should be able to take half of the joint assets for his defense. Why should the State of IN (including the community he terrorized) be forced to pay for his defense of murdering 2 innocent young girls when he clearly has some financial assets? IDK
The Indiana law I quoted above states that they can order the D to pay some costs if they have some assets.

Victims are also able to bring civil wrongful death actions against the defendant. After the Son-of-Sam laws (that prevented a defendant from profiting from its crime) were struck down as overbroad and unconstitutional, some states passed new laws that said if a defendant signs a publishing deal related to the crime, the victims must be given notification (so they can intervene and/or bring their civil suits or attach their judgments from successful civil suits).
 
I understand the rationale here and agree with what you've posted Tealgrove, but I just don't have it in my heart to care if RA is in a tight spot.

I think they should be able to take half of the joint assets for his defense. Why should the State of IN (including the community he terrorized) be forced to pay for his defense of murdering 2 innocent young girls when he clearly has some financial assets? IDK

MOO
The issue is he’s innocent until proven guilty. It doesn’t sit right with me that he could be innocent (although highly unlikely) and he would be forced to sell his house (that others live in as well) to pay for a defense to prove that innocence. If he had a bunch of money or assets that would not leave him homeless after the fact, that’s one thing… It’s already a big enough compromise to keep him in jail and unable to continue earning an income. Too much further and we’re basically punishing people without a trial.
 
(RSBM for focus R Logan)

Back on the last thread (or two) there were a couple of posts that I wanted to reply to, but for now -- generally:

I don't think that RL was directly involved in A&L murder; but I do think it's possible that they (LE) have since discovered that RL may have known about something peripherally.
Perhaps RL at one time initially accessed/knew about something (a_s account? perv ring?) -- and decided that it was not for him, but then also didn't report it.
I've been pondering this for a while.

RL may not have been a perfectly sqeaky-clean citizen, but I don't think he was an actively depraved pervert.

But, in the video, the pause when DC was answering the question concerning RL, the, "we haven't cleared anybody" response, was a little bit surprising, but then again, it is also a pat response.
So, not sure if it means anything or not.

Maybe RL might be guilty of not reporting something that he definitely should have reported.
Or maybe he knew nothing at all!
idk.
The statements, lack of statements, half-azzed statements ...
It's all so cryptic.

jmoo

RL subject raised @1:40,
"we haven't cleared anybody" @ 2:16

Not sure he didn’t report for any bad reasons.
(Almost sure RL didn’t report what he saw.)

He was an old guy living alone in a rural area amidst drug dealers, methheads and other criminals. My suspicion - he either didn’t know who did it, or perhaps saw someone, but was afraid of retaliation. Almost positive that in such a case, RA was not the only one involved. Maybe years of RL’s complex relationship with the police showed themselves in such a way.

Cowardly, maybe. Scared, definitely. Killer? Very unsure. Would bet against in the case we were betting. JMO. Might be wrong, of course.
 
I understand the rationale here and agree with what you've posted Tealgrove, but I just don't have it in my heart to care if RA is in a tight spot.

I think they should be able to take half of the joint assets for his defense. Why should the State of IN (including the community he terrorized) be forced to pay for his defense of murdering 2 innocent young girls when he clearly has some financial assets? IDK

MOO
Because he is entitled to an adequate defense. He needs a good attorney so if he's found guilty he can't appeal based on poor representation.
 
Jumping off this post - how much is their house worth? - I’m guessing not that much as such a small town.
This article claims $171,800. I tried looking it up on a GIS site, but it appears that all of the data has been removed.

 
I understand the rationale here and agree with what you've posted Tealgrove, but I just don't have it in my heart to care if RA is in a tight spot.

I think they should be able to take half of the joint assets for his defense. Why should the State of IN (including the community he terrorized) be forced to pay for his defense of murdering 2 innocent young girls when he clearly has some financial assets? IDK

MOO



Because we don’t know he is guilty - he is innocent until proven otherwise.

Also even if guilty then why should his family lose their life savings to fund his defense?
 
Jumping off this post - how much is their house worth? - I’m guessing not that much as such a small town.
Per Zillow (some may argue it's not very accurate) $217K.

 
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