Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[taylorss]

what all is everyone’s theory of the case then?

IMO could be KAK & RA connected on SM w/o ever knowing each other’s identity. We know KAK was at min an enthusiastic participant in CSAM forum that connected him w lots of other sickos in Indiana.

Maybe in those circles RA was recruiting an accomplice ? (JMO speculation) KAK was on lots of SM platforms incl some that AFAIK may have been unrecoverable, if that was possible in 2017 ? They could’ve connected in some way LE can’t find record of, online & anonymously imo … so KAK couldn’t turn him in if he wanted to. Moo

The wabash River search could have produced some evidence, disposed of by KAK, that led LE to RA. JMO ….

 

[britinsussex]

Was Richard Allen cleared years ago after telling LE he had been in the same area as the girls that day? I keep seeing this comment floating around on SM and I don't believe I have heard this. I figure WBS is the place to ask because I am so confused now!

 

[photographer4]

This is true. Prosecutor McLean doesn't want any information released that will prevent a fair trial. Defense attorney doesn't want anything released that has a negative impact on his client.

So..... I am thinking both defense attorney and prosecutor McLean will motion to keep Probable Cause Affidavit sealed. If judge rules to unseal docs, I will be surprised (and very disappointed). Does anyone know or think unsealing the PC would benefit either side? BTW, Nov 22 hearing is a public hearing.

Petition seeks to 'Keep Abby and Libby arrest evidence sealed' in Delphi murder arrest

A petition on Change.org urges the prosecutor to keep the probable cause affidavit sealed in Richard Allen's arrest in the Delphi double homicide.

www.jconline.com

It benefits the defence of the case against their client is weak or built on circumstantial evidence. If the defence wants it to stay sealed and it gets released I wonder if they can motion for a change of venue?

 

[Prime8]

I’m talking about in the real world lol

What I'm talking about is the real world as well. I've shared much of my life with a number of criminal defense attorneys. Bugging a chat between a lawyer and client is way beyond what even the most corrupt LE does in the US. If that happened, an entire case could easily be thrown out, it could lead to numerous cases of defendants in that jail/prison being thrown out, it would lead to utter chaos. Also, most defense attorneys do not want the details of what happened from the defendants mouth. Why? Because lawyers can't lie in court about things they know to be fact. If your defendant tells you that he murdered someone, you cannot go into court as a lawyer and state on the official record "my client did not commit this crime". I know people have a view of lawyers being shady, but even the shadiest lawyer usually won't step over a line that they could lose their license over.Knowing the details hampers their strategy. Attorneys are pros, they know how to put on the best defense within the bounds of the law.

 

[mrtnira]

Was Richard Allen cleared years ago after telling LE he had been in the same area as the girls that day? I keep seeing this comment floating around on SM and I don't believe I have heard this. I figure WBS is the place to ask because I am so confused now!

Greetings, Britinsussex. There is a high level of ambiguity in the publicly released information. You are in good company.

 

[mrjitty]

what all is everyone’s theory of the case then?

IMO could be KAK & RA connected on SM w/o ever knowing each other’s identity. We know KAK was at min an enthusiastic participant in CSAM forum that connected him w lots of other sickos in Indiana.

Maybe in those circles RA was recruiting an accomplice ? (JMO speculation) KAK was on lots of SM platforms incl some that AFAIK may have been unrecoverable, if that was possible in 2017 ? They could’ve connected in some way LE can’t find record of, online & anonymously imo … so KAK couldn’t turn him in if he wanted to. Moo

The wabash River search could have produced some evidence, disposed of by KAK, that led LE to RA. JMO ….

RSBM

I think RA lurked the trails, formed a plan, and eventually acted on it.

 

[chaz]

Was Richard Allen cleared years ago after telling LE he had been in the same area as the girls that day? I keep seeing this comment floating around on SM and I don't believe I have heard this. I figure WBS is the place to ask because I am so confused now!

Nobody has ever been cleared. They have said it many times. Including here:

 

[FrostedGlass]

Nobody has ever been cleared. They have said it many times. Including here:

In a Flora interview, Carter said two things of interest.
1. Everybody is a person of interest until they're not.
2. @ 19mm Question: Have the family members in the Delphi case been cleared? (Carter): The vast majority of them have, yes.

The video is no longer at a link but if you go back to susiQ's post on June 5, 2019, thread #105, pg 39, post 761, you'll find it there.

 

[Gemmie]

I find it interesting that they are starting from square one in regards to the ~70K tips they've received through the years. Unsure if it's to implicate more individuals, or simply gathering more data against RMA for their case. Perhaps both. I'd think they'd have enough data as they did arrest him and believe they have the right guy. Perhaps it's to make their case stronger so that's it's 1000% failproof.

I think the reporter is Emily Longnecker. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

EL: Start all over, essentially?

DC: That's just what they'll do. I can't think of a case in my lifetime in a long, long career that we had that much information, that much data associated with one case, so the right thing to do is go back to every one of them.

EL: So you'll go back through all the tips you've gotten.

DC: Every single one of them.

EL: Every single one since day 1.

DC: *nods* Yep.

Convo starts here:

 

[SoCalSleuth]

RSBM

I think RA lurked the trails, formed a plan, and eventually acted on it.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Spartygirl]

Edited by me (typo)

I didn’t read every last post over the past 2 weeks to get caught up.

Does anyone know if RA was in attendance at that initial police presser, where they made everyone sign in and said “it could be someone right here in this room” ? They had a sign-in sheet and took IDs, and I think this exact possible suspect scenario may have been why…

I’m really hoping they have DNA or something physical linking him to the scene, but would be great to know if he was at that one press conference. They fully expected it to be someone just like this suspect.

MOO

I have tons of photos from the 2019 presser and hoping to go through them this week to see if I can spot him there.
JMO, he was there or at very least, maybe his family was there.

 

[Gemmie]

I watched a public conference from 4/22/19 and the only person in the audience that looked remotely like it could have been RMA is partially blocked by a woman's hair, darn it. It's at 6:46 in on the WTHR 13 Live link below. While it might not be him, there definitely (IMHO) was a person in that audience who COULD HAVE BEEN him. And interestingly enough... he's got on a dark blue jacket. Granted, it's a very popular color but it's the same dark blue.

Also, this guy has the same stockyish body build as RMA. He's also not a whole lot taller than the 2 women next to him. Some of us think he's ~5'7" from his mugshot photo so he looks ~5" taller than the woman in front of him IMHO.

I just sent that info, pic and vid to Abby and Libby's tipline. Perhaps they know who the people standing next to him are and can question them to see if RMA was there (if they personally know him).



From WTHR:

 

[Gemmie]

I have tons of photos from the 2019 presser and hoping to go through them this week to see if I can spot him there.
JMO, he was there or at very least, maybe his family was there.

Hopefully you have something better than my face block pic! If so...

Email is the preferred way to send tips to help solve this crime.​

Anyone with information about this case is encouraged to send tips to this email address: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

Information sent by email is kept confidential and is only shared with investigators.

Source: Delphi Homicide Investigation

 

[gizmobtj]

What I'm talking about is the real world as well. I've shared much of my life with a number of criminal defense attorneys. Bugging a chat between a lawyer and client is way beyond what even the most corrupt LE does in the US. If that happened, an entire case could easily be thrown out, it could lead to numerous cases of defendants in that jail/prison being thrown out, it would lead to utter chaos. Also, most defense attorneys do not want the details of what happened from the defendants mouth. Why? Because lawyers can't lie in court about things they know to be fact. If your defendant tells you that he murdered someone, you cannot go into court as a lawyer and state on the official record "my client did not commit this crime". I know people have a view of lawyers being shady, but even the shadiest lawyer usually won't step over a line that they could lose their license over.Knowing the details hampers their strategy. Attorneys are pros, they know how to put on the best defense within the bounds of the law.

A. The cops would be fired
B. In some versions, they could go to jail
C. Any evidence that came out of it or even appeared to come out of it would be thrown
D. If the prosecutor knew, the judge might transfer the case and the prosecutor might be disbarred
E. There is more than a remote chance the case could be tossed

One exception -- crime-fraud exception (the attorney is a part of a criminal enterprise in the way the mob uses its lawyers)

 

[JudgeJudi]

Wait ... There were plenty of people on the bridge and trails that day. That's how they got the first sketch ....

I'm only aware that there were two other people on the bridge that day.

Thread 104 page 17, #333]

"Cheyenne Engles reported seeing the couple.
It’s in Item 2 of this article, though the arguing isn’t mentioned.

'I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” Cheyenne Mekisha Engles wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.'”

Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

<modsnip: discussing/linking sites that aren’t allowed here on Websleuths>

 

[gizmobtj]

Was Richard Allen cleared years ago after telling LE he had been in the same area as the girls that day? I keep seeing this comment floating around on SM and I don't believe I have heard this. I figure WBS is the place to ask because I am so confused now!

Taking a crack at this, I'd say no. I believe that Doug Carter, the Indiana State Police Chief said, repeatedly, that no one had been cleared

 

[The Observer]

I watched a public conference from 4/22/19 and the only person in the audience that looked remotely like it could have been RMA is partially blocked by a woman's hair, darn it. It's at 6:46 in on the WTHR 13 Live link below. While it might not be him, there definitely (IMHO) was a person in that audience who COULD HAVE BEEN him. And interestingly enough... he's got on a dark blue jacket. Granted, it's a very popular color but it's the same dark blue.

Also, this guy has the same stockyish body build as RMA. He's also not a whole lot taller than the 2 women next to him. Some of us think he's ~5'7" from his mugshot photo so he looks ~5" taller than the woman in front of him IMHO.

I just sent that info, pic and vid to Abby and Libby's tipline. Perhaps they know who the people standing next to him are and can question them to see if RMA was there (if they personally know him).
View attachment 381094


From WTHR:

It's Mike Patty. Libby's grandfather.

 

[Gemmie]

It's Mike Patty. Libby's grandfather.

THANK YOU!

 

[MissUnderstood]

I kinda have a hunch KAK and RA were acquainted. KAK and RA’s daughter are the same age. How many schools are in Peru? Who knows, KAKS dad and RA could have been fishing buddies! I feel like there are to many coincidences from the KAK investigation to where it is now with an arrest for the girls murders. Moo

 

[5W's]

I was thinking perhaps the murder weapon was thrown in the water and got carried down stream? I've never heard of a murder weapon being recovered.