Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[California Dreamin’]

Unfortunately I've seen some of the trash those "content creators" post and I don't blame the judge one little bit for recusing himself. He put the safety of his family first, and I'd have done the exact same thing.

I do see your point OM, but on the other hand, if I were the judge, I would have documented who did or said what and immediately called LE in to investigate. Let’s face it, if someone says, “I’d kill to get my hands on the AA,” how likely would that person be to actually kill someone? It’s an expression many of us have used never intending to kill anyone. I’m not trying to downplay the impact of doxxing someone, but maybe a friendly (or not so friendly) visit from LE would sort them out. It obviously needs to be addressed as every judge could cite this issue and what then? JMT

 

[mrjitty]

And the judge, apparently? How can a judge effectively preside over a case when he or she isn't even privy to the PCA?

No - the judge has the unredacted version - the judge is being asked to approve the redactions

 

[mickey2942]

Being critical of the secrecy in this case, is not the same as supporting or having sympathy for the accused.

I follow the "Innocence Project", and find it staggering how many people are incarcerated for decades, who were, in fact completely innocent of the crime they went to prison for. Imagine, being in prison for decades...
And we think that it can't happen any longer because of DNA...

I don't know, but is it better for one guilty man to be free than for 100 innocent men to be convicted of a crime they did not commit?

Critical of the lack of transparency is not the same as sympathy or support for the accused. I am glad that there has been an arrest, but it is troubling to not have more information regarding the evidence for the arrest.

 

[Boxer]

I might be wrong, but I read it that the DA's proposal is to keep it sealed and that this judge has only the redacted PCA from which to make her ruling??

Can you point me what made you think that?
The defense has the full PCA.
MOO access to all the case documents must have been given to the new presiding judge.

 

[jdglove]

You can't have an open transparent legal system if authorities act in secret, seal evidence, whisk away the accused, presume guilt, recuse judges, and issue over-broad gag orders just because a case is noticed and followed by the public. A highly public case should highlight our justice system, not dodge it as if it were an untenable ideal.

 

[SkyBoomer]

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

So, absolutely nothing until the trial? That is unusual. However, I assume that RA's attorneys will be privy to the information in discovery?

Innocent until proven guilty? I am not seeing this here. The man has never been arrested before, has family support, house, seems like he should be eligible for a reasonable bail amount. Good grief, they already put him in prison! "For his safety". Of course.

How is that Doug Carter’s call to make? Geez, this guy.

 

[mrjitty]

You can't have an open transparent legal system if authorities act in secret, seal evidence, whisk away the accused, presume guilt, recuse judges, and issue over-broad gag orders just because a case is noticed and followed by the public. A highly public case should highlight our justice system, not dodge it as if it were an untenable ideal.

The prosecutor cannot do any of those things

Only the judge can do them. That is one of the points of the separation of powers.

 

[Boxer]

You can't have an open transparent legal system if authorities act in secret, seal evidence, whisk away the accused, presume guilt, recuse judges, and issue over-broad gag orders just because a case is noticed and followed by the public. A highly public case should highlight our justice system, not dodge it as if it were an untenable ideal.

Agree.
MOO the first of the two reasons the DA gave the judge for sealing, is protecting witnesses who are still minors or were minors at the time of the crime, MOO so it is the main reason for sealing.

Embarrassment for the parents and guardians in a small town.

Unpleasant for them, but it will all come out at trial as RA is not pleading “guilty.”
MOO there is no point in not going forward transparently according to normal procedure.
Possibly friends of the judges children are mentioned as witnesses and this is another contributing factor to recusing himself.

 

[mrjitty]

Can you point me what made you think that?
The defense has the full PCA.
MOO access to all the case documents must have been given to the new presiding judge.

Agreed

This is all getting very conspiratorial

There is going to be a public trial. This is nothing like China!

The judge is considering so no doubt sensible redactions for a high profile trial in a small town.

 

[Boxer]

How is that Doug Carter’s call to make? Geez, this guy.

MOO He isn’t making the call, he is saying the court is making this call and he is explaining.

 

[WildHuncher]

How is that Doug Carter’s call to make? Geez, this guy.

From your link:

Carter: Well, I think you will remember, I have said from the very beginning, since 2017, a sketch is a sketch. It is not a photograph. That is the first time I have seen that, and I have also indicated over time that once we get where we are today, we will be able to look at the similarities and make a photograph, which will be Richard Allen. I think there is a little bit of both, and I don’t regret that strategy by any means.

So the two sketches per what DC is saying now are indeed both supposed to be BG who in turn is supposed to be Richard Allen. This is where we are today. Are we all on one page now? Is LE all on one page now? I can't tell.

 

[California Dreamin’]

How is that Doug Carter’s call to make? Geez, this guy.

I don’t take that statement by DC to mean NO facts will come out until the trial. The AA will be released before trial, even if heavily redacted, JMO. However, we must remember not ALL evidence will be in the AA, only what was needed to find probable cause. No doubt many of you long time sleuthers have experienced seeing this over the years during a trial. All evidence will be laid out during the trial. MOO

 

[SkyBoomer]

From your link:

Carter: Well, I think you will remember, I have said from the very beginning, since 2017, a sketch is a sketch. It is not a photograph. That is the first time I have seen that, and I have also indicated over time that once we get where we are today, we will be able to look at the similarities and make a photograph, which will be Richard Allen. I think there is a little bit of both, and I don’t regret that strategy by any means.

So the two sketches per what DC is saying now are indeed both supposed to be BG who in turn is supposed to be Richard Allen. This is where we are today. Are we all on one page now? Is LE all on one page now? I can't tell.

I meant the part where DC says the public will not get any more info until it goes to trial.

Wouldn’t that be the judge’s call, not his?

 

[musicaljoke]

You can't have an open transparent legal system if authorities act in secret, seal evidence, whisk away the accused, presume guilt, recuse judges, and issue over-broad gag orders just because a case is noticed and followed by the public. A highly public case should highlight our justice system, not dodge it as if it were an untenable ideal.

Well, yes, you can have a highly reliable justice system with these things happening leading up to the trial. The case will be tried in court, which you can attend, where evidence is tested, rather than in the world of public opinion and social media.

 

[WildHuncher]

I meant the part where DC says the public will not get any more info until it goes to trial.

Wouldn’t that be the judge’s call, not his?

Yes. Not disputing that. I was reacting to DC's answer to the muddle of the two sketches. There's been an ongoing debate here about what LE is even saying. It's a mess.

Someone in LE somewhere once said OBG is not the same person as YBG. OBG is in fact no longer of interest and please forget that sketch. Don't have it right in front of me but that gets quoted from time to time.

 

[SkyBoomer]

Yes. Not disputing that. I was reacting to DC's answer to the muddle of the two sketches. There's been an ongoing debate here about what LE is even saying. It's a mess.

Someone in LE somewhere once said OBG is not the same person as YBG. OBG is in fact no longer of interest and please forget that sketch. Don't have it right in front of me but that gets quoted from time to time.

I think those sketches will be the thing that finally drives me round the bend! Ack!

 

[photographer4]

I listened to a recap of the sealing hearing. The DAs first reason is that some witnesses are still minors and many were minors on 2/13/17.
Still that can’t be helped, redact their names and move on. RA is pleading “not guilty” it will all be part of the trial.

I think the fear is that even if the names are redacted, there are those who follow this case who will seek out those names, and figure them out and post them, or perhaps worse, post the *wrong* names - thus making life difficult for people who weren't even involved.

 

[photographer4]

Yes, what is up with the judge recusing himself or otherwise leaving, citing security concerns? What does that mean? A threat to his security? By whom?

I believe he felt there was a threat to himself and his family as well as to his staff. It must be so scary to have to be a judge at times, especially in big matters such as this!

 

[mickey2942]

I believe he felt there was a threat to himself and his family as well as to his staff. It must be so scary to have to be a judge at times, especially in big matters such as this!

So, he passes the buck to another judge to deal with it? What if this judge recuses for the same reason?

My own opinion, maybe this judge was not on board with the lack of transparency...and wanted no part of the situation. Just a thought.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I listened to a recap of the sealing hearing. The DAs first reason is that some witnesses are still minors and many were minors on 2/13/17.
Still that can’t be helped, redact their names and move on. RA is pleading “not guilty” it will all be part of the trial.

If some are still minors, that's Abby and Libby's peer age group and younger. That's thought provoking right there. JMO