Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[LammyTheRobot]

Exoneree, Center on Wrongful Convictions: Northwestern Pritzker School of Law

www.law.northwestern.edu

It happens… very similar circumstances, at least re a state examiner matching a specific firearm “to the exclusion of any other firearm.” Hope they’ve got more.

 

[M. Kay]

I'm not so sure about there being no male dressed in black on or under the Bridge that fateful day. Allegedly, witnesses saw him.
Whether or not LE IDed the man in black or not is unknown to the public. Bottom line though is that the man in black may have been an associate of KAKs, or whatnot, but I can't declare it to be a dead end. There's still so much we don't know about this complex case.

"The Man in Black" has remained in my mind too, for much discussed on early blogs. He was separate from 'BG'/video. "All in black" included his backpack as he departed, described by more than one witness;--a younger guy.

 

[MistyWaters]

I am no investor so I am not one to talk but living in a $100k house and day-trading stocks doesn't make sense either. I think we may find he lives in his own little world.

One doesn’t need to be a day-trader to check on a stock portfolio nor does one have to be wealthy to own stocks, many can be bought for mere pennies. That he was checking his stocks doesn’t seem outlandish to me at all. It’s about as typical checking email or SM. JMO

 

[RedArcher]

Allen himself has stated on record he did not loan the gun to anyone. Nor was he able to explain why the bullet would be found there.
Him being on record saying those things doesn't give him much of an out.
If he had been smarter and had some kind of story that he had hunted there a week before the murders etc He could have raised some doubt.
We know the killer used a gun to control the girls, so in some type of struggle etc its easy to see how a bullet may have been lost.
They do have partial DNA on one of the girls jackets so who knows if they will be able to match that to Allen now they have him.

If he had told me he was hunting, with that particular gun, I would have certainly been suspicious. Was that land prohibited for hunting purposes ? It seems being that close to walking trails it would be, at least for gun use.

 

[Jealoushe]

"The Man in Black" has remained in my mind too, for much discussed on early blogs. He was separate from 'BG'/video. "All in black" included his backpack as he departed, described by more than one witness;--a younger guy.

Could BG have had black clothes on under his other clothes and they saw him after?

 

[Boxer]

Very good point! While it’s not been released when RA allegedly told a Conservation Officer that he had been on the bridge, if that occurred before the bodies were found the statement would’ve been part of a missing persons investigation.

Not excusing LE but perhaps none of the information obtained Feb 13th was seen to be crucial to what later became a murder investigation because at that time foul play was not suspected. The fact that foul play wasn’t considered a possibility suggests no one reported anything considered crime related prior to the girls bodies were recovered, such as screaming, yelling, gunshots, nor a sighting of a muddy, bloody man walking along W300N.

JMO

MOO every individual on the trail are primary extreme importance.
The case flow would describe location, time, and every individual in the area.

From this root document all evidence and facts would be added as they grew the picture of what happened.

Very early, I think late in 2/15/17 they showed a still
photo of BG and said they were looking for this man as a “witness.”

 

[Kingsley]

who is the other guy in black? This is not good for the state

Given the video, I think the guy in black is an interesting note on how people see differently, but the video shows the jeans and dark jacket of the person ordering the girls down the hill. JMO.

 

[stargazer17]

The apparent distance between the girls was farther than I had imagined, as well.

I also wondered the same thing you say about the Hoosier Harvestore not having video of RMA walking, yet had the footage of the person driving at 3:57pm. We know the muddy and bloody guy matching the description was seen on the north side of the road walking west, but we don't know exactly where on 300 Rd. he was seen, east or west of Hoosier Harvestore. The fact that he was on the north side of the road sort of makes me wonder if he tried to mostly avoid walking the road and cut through the fields on the north side of 300 Rd., behind the Harvestore, and over to the CPS lot. Less convenient for him, but if he was muddy and bloody...

Jmo.

Yes that must be, perhaps after the driver that saw him prompted him to go into the fields/wood line etc..

 

[TL4S]

One doesn’t need to be a day-trader to check on a stock portfolio nor does one have to be wealthy to own stocks, many can be bought for mere pennies. That he was checking his stocks doesn’t seem outlandish to me at all. It’s about as typical checking email or SM. JMO

I agree, for an innocent person walking along a trail on any given day, watching a stock ticker might be innocuous. But while RA was on the trail that day, we are to presume he was with A and L before, during, and after their murders, between 2:13 and 3:57, so unless he was only referring to the time he was there prior to 2:13, he was most likely not watching a stock ticker. I wonder if he still has that same phone, and if so, can LE retrieve what apps were working, or what he was doing on that phone during the murders?

 

[Alethea]

One doesn’t need to be a day-trader to check on a stock portfolio nor does one have to be wealthy to own stocks, many can be bought for mere pennies. That he was checking his stocks doesn’t seem outlandish to me at all. It’s about as typical checking email or SM. JMO

Only 15% of households own individual stocks so it's definitely not as typical as checking email or social media. It just seems like a really weird thing to say you are doing walking on a bridge before you're about to kill some kids.

 

[scottr]

I think that anyone blasting LE is totally wrong. A lot of posters are reacting like yeah he walked into the PD and told them what he was wearing and put himself at the scene at the time of the crime at...He matched all the descriptions blah blah blah

That isn't the case if you read the release. He was interviewed. Interviewed by an OFFICER. Not a detective. He doesn't say anything about what he was wearing until later on while being interviewed by a detective in 2022. Shortly after is when the search warrant was issued. I think a detective put everything together somehow and that's why the search warrant was requested and carried out.

You have to think what a great job LE during all of this. They never released if there was any signs of a SA and they never released how the victims were killed. Probably because of the spent cartridge.

I think they were just waiting for someone to know that they found the victims. But really they were waiting to see who would come back for that spent cartridge and who would come back for the clothes that also was never released to the public.

 

[layer]

* 2017 Sig Sauer ejected shell casing close to victims' bodies

It wasn't a shell casing. It was an unspent round (bullet never fired).

 

[NugHunter]

Posting this with updated opinions as i feel it will help many members and visitors on this forum.

In my opinion RA is guilty of the murders and will be found guilty in a court of law.I believe he acted alone during the murders and was alone with the 2 victims at scene of the murders....that being said here are some thoughts

1) IMO RA went to LE first (Friendly conservation officer?) to let them know he was on the bridge but did not see the girls or anything suspicious.He did this because he knew the other 3 girls saw him leaving the area and would surely tell LE of his presence on the bridge that day. IMO the 3 girl witneses statement came AFTER RA made his "helpful info report" This is a KEY reason RA got away for so long.

His report went unnoticed for several different reasons. One being in the very early stages of the investigation the initial description of the suspect looked nothing like RA.Another is The " local friendly" LE he made his "helpfull tip" too never thought twice about it ,as his statement like several others on the bridge that day was originally OFFERED in good faith from concerned local citizens trying to help LE (RA went to them to help,they did not go looking for him). At the time his "tip" was given, LE probably had not gained access to the victims phones and that video yet.The "friendly" LE officer probably had no knowledge of the 40call bullit found as he was not "in the know" on that piece of information let aloine if RA owned a 40cal. By the time the video and alternate description came out,who knows how many tips and reports that same officer made.Would it have been nice if the officer made that connection back in 2017 ? yes ofcoarse...should we blame him for not making the connection? Absolutley not ..Add KK, into the mix and all the lies he brought to the investigation.the landowners lies,DN lies and the numerous SO in the area that were also suspects and you have a perfect storm for RA to miracuously fly under the radar...until...they revisit the ENTIRE CASE and EVERY REPORT made in the case in late 2022.

The report RA made was never looked at until recently by new investigators (Kathy Shank?) who found the old "tipster" report and then made the connection with bullit/gun ownership and/or the fact RA was on the bridge that day and mtched the description almost to a T ,as she possibly knew what RA looked like due to her being a customer of cvs or within an official capicity dealing with her child protective case and medications for minors ..or both. Other then the 1 report she was looking at ,there was no mention of RA anywhere in the entire investigation(AHA! MOMENT).IMO Once that connection was made everything else fell into place:the gun,dna,boot prints,blood...etc. They never looked at RA at all , let alone as a suspect until this newest connection was made. He got very lucky to get away with it for so long.I Would not put blame on LE but rather bad timing and back luck .


2) Docs state that Along with RA's 40cal sig they also took his clothes,jacket and BOOTS...I believe they matched boot prints from the scene to his boots .The dox state one eye witness stated RA looked bloody and MUDDY. Muddy means boot prints.

3) RA during his first "tipster statement" said he parked at the Farm Beauro building (actually the old cps building) I do not think this was a mistake on his part.This is a very small town ,everybody knows everybody and what buildings were what.he knew what the building was previously. IMO He did not want to utter the words "child protective services building" to LE ...either out of pure guilt or a connection to that building/agency he did not want to reveal or both.. This is possibly how Kathy Shank comes into the picture ?

3) LE states BOTH victims clothes were found a distance away from their bodies by a a water source. This would lead me to believe he had some sort of sexual contact with the victims and may have left DNA that has now been matched to him.
AS i stated in my earlier post I believe they have RA dead to rights guilty. They used the 40cal and eye witness statements that align with the time frames victim were at the bridge for probable cause to charge him. When it comes closer to trial I feel more substantial evidence against him will come out. IE boot prints,his dna on victims, victims dna on his clothes.

5) IMO RA returned to the bridge with his own daughter in early 2018 but after feb 14th and took the pic to set up an "im a good daddy " alibi if he was to need one in the future : "Well I go to that bridge all the time...I even go with my own daughter! Why do you think I tried to help yall in 2017" I noticed in the pic RAs wife posted to Facebook in 2018 that the leaves on the trees are missing , leading me to believe the photo was taken early 2018 So I did a search for news articles about Delphi murders from jan2018-april2018 and located and interesting video of a press conference at the bridge on the 1 year anniversary of the victims murders. Not only does the State Police exclude DN as a suspect he goes on to say the following:
SP Superintendent Carter said. “I came to plead and implore you to keep this out front and center.”
Carter went on to address why the Delphi case is so personal to him.

“It’s personal to me because those two young girls were everybody’s DAUGHTERS,” Carter said. “In this beautiful place that represents the very best of humanity, and look what happened.”

I believe RA saw this news conference, realized the heat was back on and took his daughter to the bridge to again make himself seem like a good local family man that visited the area often ,even with his own Daughter and back up his previous "tipster info he made to LE in 2017
Link to news conference :kktv.com/content/news/Nations-no-longer-a-major-concern-in-Delphi-murders-474116613.html


6)These dox do not contain ALL of the evidence against RA !!!!! They contain ENOUGH evidence to charge him !!!
Imo there is ALOT more evidence that has not been released yet. I.E. boot prints,his DNA on them, possibly their DNA on his belongings...and possible "trophy" he kepy

This Case is not hinged on 1 single unspent 40cal bullit and a descripton of a man in jeans and a hooded jacket


7)These decades long career LEO's and Sheriffs did not get on National live TV Press conference in tears to announce an arrest unless they had a MOUNTAIN of EVIDENCE against RA !!!

THEY GOT HIM !


P.S. This is post #777 in this enitre thread so you kind of have to listen a lil bit lol

 

[Alethea]

I think that anyone blasting LE is totally wrong. A lot of posters are reacting like yeah he walked into the PD and told them what he was wearing and put himself at the scene at the time of the crime at...He matched all the descriptions blah blah blah

That isn't the case if you read the release. He was interviewed. Interviewed by an OFFICER. Not a detective. He doesn't say anything about what he was wearing until later on while being interviewed by a detective in 2022. Shortly after is when the search warrant was issued. I think a detective put everything together somehow and that's why the search warrant was requested and carried out.

You have to think what a great job LE during all of this. They never released if there was any signs of a SA and they never released how the victims were killed. Probably because of the spent cartridge.

I think they were just waiting for someone to know that they found the victims. But really they were waiting to see who would come back for that spent cartridge and who would come back for the clothes that also was never released to the public.

If you were the detective on this case, would you ask for the list of everyone who was on the bridge at 2pm and interview them yourself? That's where my criticism is coming from.

 

[CurtMarcucci]

Why would he not have hid ,he would have heard her coming.

There is nowhere to hide on that road, it's mostly open field

 

[LammyTheRobot]

Only 15% of households own individual stocks so it's definitely not as typical as checking email or social media. It just seems like a really weird thing to say you are doing walking on a bridge before you're about to kill some kids.

I can say with certainty I’ve never checked my portfolio before killing anyone. I do check it two or three times a week though, and if I’m extra bored or waiting for a certain market movement.

 

[layer]

I think they were just waiting for someone to know that they found the victims. But really they were waiting to see who would come back for that spent cartridge and who would come back for the clothes that also was never released to the public.

Again, it was an UNspent cartridge. Depending on what else was turned up in the search, this may prove be critical to the defense.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

The RL search warrant mentions guns. It’s one of the main reasons behind the request to search his place. This can be read in the warrant which is all over the web.

If RA is the killer, and sophisticated enough to do all this corpus mentis, he would have spotted that and would have got rid of the gun if he felt he had something to hide.

IMO only and maybe some people wouldn’t think that way.

 

[scottr]

The RL search warrant mentions guns. It’s one of the main reasons behind the request to search his place. This can be read in the warrant which is all over the web.

If RA is the killer, and sophisticated enough to do all this corpus mentis, he would have spotted that and would have got rid of the gun if he felt he had something to hide.

IMO only and maybe some people wouldn’t think that way.

No No No, there is no public search warrant. Whatever you are reading is not fact.

 

[Boxer]

Posting this with updated opinions as i feel it will help many members and visitors on this forum.

In my opinion RA is guilty of the murders and will be found guilty in a court of law.I believe he acted alone during the murders and was alone with the 2 victims at scene of the murders....that being said here are some thoughts

1) IMO RA went to LE first (Friendly conservation officer?) to let them know he was on the bridge but did not see the girls or anything suspicious.He did this because he knew the other 3 girls saw him leaving the area and would surely tell LE of his presence on the bridge that day. IMO the 3 girl witneses statement came AFTER RA made his "helpful info report" This is a KEY reason RA got away for so long.

His report went unnoticed for several different reasons. One being in the very early stages of the investigation the initial description of the suspect looked nothing like RA.Another is The " local friendly" LE he made his "helpfull tip" too never thought twice about it ,as his statement like several others on the bridge that day was originally OFFERED in good faith from concerned local citizens trying to help LE. At the time his "tip" was given, LE probably had not gained access to the victims phones and that video yet.The "friendly" LE officer probably had no knowledge of the 40call bullit found as he was not "in the know" on that piece of information let aloine if RA owned a 40cal. By the time the video and alternate description came out who knows how many tips and reports that same officer made.Would it have been nice if the officer made that connection back in 2017 ? yes ofcoarse...should we blame him for not making the connection? Absolutley not ..Add KK, into the mix and all the lies he brought to the investigation.the landowners lies,DN lies and the numerous SO in the area that were also suspects and you have a perfect storm for RA to miracuously fly under the radar...until...they revisit the ENTIRE CASE and EVERY REPORT made in the case in late 2022.

The report RA made was never looked at until recently by new investigators (Kathy Shank?) who found the old "tipster" report and then made the connection with bullit/gun ownership and/pr the fact RA was on the bridge that day and mtched the description almost to a T ,as she possibly knew what RA looked like due to her being a customer of cvs or within an official capicity dealing with her child protective case and medications or both. Other then the 1 report she was looking at ,there was no mention of RA anywhere in the entire investigation.IMO Once that connection was made everything else fell into place:the gun,dna,boot prints,blood...etc. They never looked at RA at all , let alone as a suspect until this newest connection was made. He got very lucky to get away with it for so long.I Would not put blame on LE but rather bad timing and back luck .


2) Docs state that Along with RA's 40cal sig they also took his clothes,jacket and BOOTS...I believe they matched boot prints from the scene to his boots .The dox state one eye witness stated RA looked bloody and MUDDY. Muddy means boot prints.

3) RA during his first "tipster statement" said he parked at the Farm Beauro building (actually the old cps building) I do not think this was a mistake on his part.This is a very small town ,everybody knows everybody and what buildings were what.he knew what the building was previously. IMO He did not want to utter the words "child protective services building" to LE ...either out of pure guilt or a connection to that building/agency he did not want to reveal or both.. This is possibly how Kathy Shank comes into the picture ?

3) LE states BOTH victims clothes were found a distance away from their bodies by a a water source. This would lead me to believe he had some sort of sexual contact with the victims and may have left DNA that has now been matched to him.
AS i stated in my earlier post I believe they have RA dead to rights guilty. They used the 40cal and eye witness statements that align with the time frames victim were at the bridge for probable cause to charge him. When it comes closer to trial I feel more substantial evidence against him will come out. IE boot prints,his dna on victims, victims dna on his clothes.

5) IMO RA returned to the bridge with his own daughter in early 2018 but after feb 14th and took the pic to set up an "im a good daddy " alibi if he was to need one in the future : "Well I go to that bridge all the time...I even go with my own daughter! Why do you think I tried to help yall in 2017" I noticed in the pic RAs wife posted to Facebook in 2018 that the leaves on the trees are missing , leading me to believe the photo was taken early 2018 So I did a search for news articles about Delphi murders from jan2018-april2018 and located and interesting video of a press conference at the bridge on the 1 year anniversary of the victims murders. Not only does the State Police exclude DN as a suspect he goes on to say the following:
SP Superintendent Carter said. “I came to plead and implore you to keep this out front and center.”
Carter went on to address why the Delphi case is so personal to him.

“It’s personal to me because those two young girls were everybody’s DAUGHTERS,” Carter said. “In this beautiful place that represents the very best of humanity, and look what happened.”

I believe RA saw this news conference, realized the heat was back on and took his daughter to the bridge to again make himself seem like a good local family man that visited the area often ,even with his own Daughter and back up his previous "tipster info he made to LE in 2017
Link to news conference :kktv.com/content/news/Nations-no-longer-a-major-concern-in-Delphi-murders-474116613.html


6)These dox do not contain ALL of the evidence against RA !!!!! They contain ENOUGH evidence to charge him !!!
Imo there is ALOT more evidence that has not been released yet. I.E. boot prints,his DNA on them, possibly their DNA on his belongings...and possible "trophy" he kepy

This Case is not hinged on 1 single unspent 40cal bullit and a descripton of a man in jeans and a hooded jacket


7)These decades long career LEO's and Sheriffs did not get on National live TV Press conference in tears to announce an arrest unless they had a MOUNTAIN of EVIDENCE against RA !!!

THEY GOT HIM !


P.S. This is post #777 in this enitre thread so you kind of have to listen a lil bit lol

MOO it’s shoddy work. Don’t think Carter would say different.