Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[Justice101]

The defense is undoubtedly going to argue that bullet didn't come from his gun but from a gun like his. The unspent bullet has extraction marks, which can lead to "subjective" results when determining the gun from which the bullet came. It's not ballistic testing where the results are far more definitive. It's just the PCA, but as an observer, I am struggling to find something that definitively indicates RA is BG.

And I do agree the bullet is significant. That's probably why it took several years to get an AW. But there will be several experts who dispute that anyone can determine which bullet a gun came from based solely on extraction marks. I am really hoping the SW turns up additional evidence or that LE already has significant evidence that it is not disclosing to the public.

A lot of PCA's don't even have any true physical evidence. It can be simply someone identified visually in a line up (or looking at multiple choice faces in a book) or even someone seen/identified fleeing from the scene and/or description of car.

Arrest warrants are sworn and are taken seriously but by law, you don't need to have all the proof, just "probable" cause that the individual is involved. Judge signs off on it.

I agree that the bullet chamber cycling marks, the eyewitness descriptions and even the video and audio are NOT ENOUGH to convict him. I suspect they will have more.. and a lot more if and when it comes to a trial at the point of discovery. They may even not present the bullet chamber cycling results at trial.

 

[scapa]

If you were the detective on this case, would you ask for the list of everyone who was on the bridge at 2pm and interview them yourself? That's where my criticism is coming from.

I would add to that:

How long would you wait in a case like this for "fresh eyes" to be brought in to read over the investigators' notes, tip sheets and theories of the case? Months? Years? What is the "standard' in such investigations? Are there investigators who are specially trained in such fresh eyes roles? How often was this case reviewed between extravaganza PCs?

I guess we'll find out at some point when the rest of the complex "tentacles" are revealed -- safely of course. Under glass.

 

[LeBlack]

The timing of all of this is just too precise for RA to have gone out at random and killed at random, IMO. RA's vehicle was likely seen at 1:27, which had to be within what...10 minutes of the girls leaving L's house for the trail? He gets there, parks, and walks directly to the bridge, again, within minutes before the girls get there? They are half-way across when they post a couple photos around 2:07, with RA nowhere in sight. Six minutes later he's behind A on the south end of the bridge, almost to them.

It's been said that a third friend, and maybe KG, were invited to go along to the bridge that day, but neither did. If this is true, I don't think a meetup with a boy was necessarily planned, and the trip to the bridge very likely could have been last-minute, as the family suggests. However, I'm very curious if L posted anything on SM that morning, shortly before they left.

IMO, instead of calling her Dad for a ride home, she somehow contacted RA (AS?) to let him know she'd be there. Mb as simple as a Snapchat to her followers that she was going?

MOO

 

[Justice101]

MOO it’s shoddy work. Don’t think Carter would say different.

RA was ABSOLUTELY STUPID to self-report himself at the trail and on a section of the bridge that day. No need whatsoever to do all the leg work for LE by coming forward to say that he was there.

He'd have better chances WAITING to see if he was approached by LE.. and then deny that he was there.

From what was released, he would have known the footage is not clear enough for him to be positively identified.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

No No No, there is no public search warrant. Whatever you are reading is not fact.

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Submitted sworn and signed by an FBI agent.

 

[Justice101]

I would add to that:

How long would you wait in a case like this for "fresh eyes" to be brought in to read over the investigators' notes, tip sheets and theories of the case? Months? Years? What is the "standard' in such investigations? Are there investigators who are specially trained in such fresh eyes roles? How often was this case reviewed between extravaganza PCs?

I guess we'll find out at some point when the rest of the complex "tentacles" are revealed -- safely of course. Under glass.

I think the report from the Conservation Officer was not on the list.

Too big to have been ignored. 70,000 tips will do that to any organization. Slipped thru the cracks around the system I think.

 

[layer]

I agree that the bullet cycling marks, the eyewitness descriptions and even the video and audio is enough to convict him. I suspect they will have more.. and a lot more if and when it comes to a trial at the point of discovery.

I disagree. If that's all they have any decent defense attorney will get him off.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree, for an innocent person walking along a trail on any given day, watching a stock ticker might be innocuous. But while RA was on the trail that day, we are to presume he was with A and L before, during, and after their murders, between 2:13 and 3:57, so unless he was only referring to the time he was there prior to 2:13, he was most likely not watching a stock ticker. I wonder if he still has that same phone, and if so, can LE retrieve what apps were working, or what he was doing on that phone during the murders?

He claims it was when he was walking from Freedom Bridge to the Monon Bridge, sounds as if he used it as a excuse to downplay his presence, to explain why he did not see Libby and Abby nor pay attention to much of anything. His 2017 statement was very brief.

 

[DeDee]

Gray has worked to compose a visual timeline. I required tissues.

From 2:14 to 3:48 (edited time), RA was with our girls. Oh, dear lord. What did he do during that nearly hour and a half?


From RL's PCW:

"The murderer likely took a souvenir from the crime scene, according to the document, and it “appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.” The redacted search warrant didn’t specify what was missing and noted that the “rest of their clothing was recovered.”

Search warrant: Delphi killer took souvenir, may have ‘staged’ murder scene

 

[Justice101]

I disagree. If that's all they have any decent defense attorney will get him off.

Sorry, I edited... I mean is NOT enough to convict him. My bad.

 

[Le Singe]

I Re-read the PCA (an actually copy and not cell phone picture) and had a night’s sleep. A few random things, I Noticed:

1. I wish they would redact witness’s names as "witness 01" "witnesses 02" etc. instead of just blanks would make things much easier to understand.
2. There are two trail heads/entrances one by the freedom bridge parking lot etc. that RA and seemingly most of the witnesses used, And another like half way to the Monon high bridge which is where A & L were dropped off (not sure what if any significance that has but I had not noticed before).
3. Some people have said that he walked past 3 girls and did not attack them therefore he must have been targeting A&L specifically. This may be true, but from what i can tell the area he crossed paths with those 3 girls seems to be much closer to the parking lot and the highway (and they were headed in that direction) I think this would be a much harder/risker place to try to abduct people from.
4. Seems like both the girls and RA were walking southeast on the bridge and the "Guys down the hill" moment was at the southeast end of the bridge BUT the bodies where found on the north side of Dear Creek? Is this correct? And if so does that mean they had to cross the river somehow (possibly wading/swimming)? Was the crossing before or after the murder? Am I missing something (probably yes)?
5. Was some confusion yesterday if RA mentioned the three girls he saw in 2017 but it seems like he did.
6. Woman claims to have seen bloody and muddy RA walking on(beside?) 300 N. A camera from Hoosier Heartland feed store caught her can on that road at 3:57. So question, did the camera pick up RA? Or if not why not what does that say about his route or his attempt not to be seen.
7. If he did in-fact back up to the building hiding his license plate on arrival then it suggest he went there with the intent to commit a serious crime.

General take away, absolutely should have been on this guy in 2017, could have probably gotten great evidence then. I hope for a lucky break but getting the girls DNA off clothes, or his car, SIX YEARS later is a much taller order. They really did seal the PCA so they could have their back slapping press conference right before elections.

(**as an aside would have been pretty damn wild if someone had driven a purple PT cruiser to do a murder or any type of crime ...)
-

 

[OverTheRhine]

Not exactly surprised a couple young girls don't know or remember the exact make and model of a car they randomly walked passed without giving much thought to. The focus is one of the most generic looking cars around.

 

[mrjitty]

So will the defence be RA is bridge guy but BG isn’t the killer?

That doesn’t work legally because of the felony murder charge

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Some sealed documents unsealed today revealing how clues led to suspect.

"A witness told investigators she had seen a man heading away from that bridge later “wearing a blue colored jacket and blue jeans and was muddy and bloody,” and appeared to have gotten in a fight, the affidavit says. The man was traveling on a road adjacent to the crime scene, and investigators were able to determine that took place shortly before 4 p.m."

A newly unsealed affidavit details the clues that led investigators to the suspect in Delphi teen girl killings | CNN

A .40 caliber unspent round that was found near the bodies of two teen Indiana girls was tied to suspect Richard Allen, who was arrested last month in connection with the killings, according to a probable cause affidavit.

www.cnn.com

 

[LammyTheRobot]

I Re-read the PCA (an actually copy and not cell phone picture) and had a night’s sleep. A few random things, I Noticed:

1. I wish they would redact witness’s names as "witness 01" "witnesses 02" etc. instead of just blanks would make things much easier to understand.
2. There are two trail heads/entrances one by the freedom bridge parking lot etc. that RA and seemingly most of the witnesses used, And another like half way to the Monon high bridge which is where A & L were dropped off (not sure what if any significance that has but I had not noticed before).
3. Some people have said that he walked past 3 girls and did not attack them therefore he must have been targeting A&L specifically. This may be true, but from what i can tell the area he crossed paths with those 3 girls seems to be much closer to the parking lot and the highway (and they were headed in that direction) I think this would be a much harder/risker place to try to abduct people from.
4. Seems like both the girls and RA were walking southeast on the bridge and the "Guys down the hill" moment was at the southeast end of the bridge BUT the bodies where found on the north side of Dear Creek? Is this correct? And if so does that mean they had to cross the river somehow (possibly wading/swimming)? Was the crossing before or after the murder? Am I missing something (probably yes)?
5. Was some confusion yesterday if RA mentioned the three girls he saw in 2017 but it seems like he did.
6. Woman claims to have seen bloody and muddy RA walking on(beside?) 300 N. A camera from Hoosier Heartland feed store caught her can on that road at 3:57. So question, did the camera pick up RA? Or if not why not what does that say about his route or his attempt not to be seen.
7. If he did in-fact back up to the building hiding his license plate on arrival then it suggest he went there with the intent to commit a serious crime.

General take away, absolutely should have been on this guy in 2017, could have probably gotten great evidence then. I hope for a lucky break but getting the girls DNA off clothes, or his car, SIX YEARS later is a much taller order. They really did seal the PCA so they could have their back slapping press conference right before elections.

(**as an aside would have been pretty damn wild if someone had driven a purple PT cruiser to do a murder or any type of crime ...)
-

Maybe a South Side LA drive-by?

 

[Justice101]

Gray has worked to compose a visual timeline. I required tissues.

From 2:14 to 3:43, RA was with our girls. Oh, dear lord. What did he do during that nearly hour and a half?


From RL's PCW:

"The murderer likely took a souvenir from the crime scene, according to the document, and it “appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.” The redacted search warrant didn’t specify what was missing and noted that the “rest of their clothing was recovered.”

Search warrant: Delphi killer took souvenir, may have ‘staged’ murder scene

That video is well done and follows the PCA to the T.

Sure spells out what LE got from witnesses.

 

[Justice101]

He knew he had been seen though so getting in front of the police meant he looked like he had nothing to hide.


He was just lucky he got 6 years of extra freedom due to incompetence and I hope he never has a day of freedom again.


Moo

I want to blame it more on the Conservation Officer and/or not getting it into the tip system they were coming in so fast.

But maybe that is wishful thinking. Police know the first thing to do it to look at witnesses and any other people who were there that day. Police 101. The only explanation I can see if the investigative team DID NOT INITIALLY SEE THE REPORT.

 

[Kingsley]

The prosecution is sitting on a fragile case, and they know it , the defense wants it unsealed because its circumstantial at best, they have an unspent round that matched the tool marks from his .40 Caliber firearm that was found between the victims bodies.

Allen has also requested a change of venue.

On the unreleased, portion of the video recovered, from the victims phone, theres one point the word "gun" can be heard, by one of the victims before the infamous "down the hill" audio.

They are not saying however how the girls were killed, (ive stated somewhere before I felt a knife was most likely used, allen was known to carry both) Im assuming that they were not shot, or they would've been able to recover rounds from the victims and match those as well, if that was the case, then this wouldn't even be a discussion.

He put himself in that area, a car matching his vehicles description was seen in the area, Allen owned clothes (Carhartt sweatshirt etc.. similar to the individual seen walking on the bridge that day) other eyewitnesses put a man of that description both in that area and later covered in mud and blood walking along a road leading away from the park area.

The problem is that though its certainly suspicious, and just a little too coincidental, its not the definitive that makes it a slam dunk , thats the uphill they have with this case.

The defense is going to say that "yes he was in that area, and yes be dropped a bullet there, but that doesn't make him responsible for the girls deaths", they are going to try to say that the unspent.40 cal round was dropped accidentally etc.. prior to the crime or something along that line.

The prosecution has to prove that Allen was responsible for the deaths of the girls, what they have is a suspect in the area, evidence near the bodies, and eyewitness accounts ,

So the case, hangs on 1) Allen putting himself in that area 2) Eyewitness accounts of a man that looked like Allen in that area 3) a round found laying on the ground between the victims, that matches, the extractor marking of Allens Sig Sauer.

So the prosecution has to be very careful.

What they have, per above, is that Allen was at the scene.
What they need, and what they may get from the evidence gathered from his home (including car) is that evidence of the girls is on his things.
So definitely ongoing investigation. I agree it might not be enough in the document now, especially if anything gets thrown out.
JMO.

 

[Le Singe]

RA is 5’7” which was established in numerous comments right here using his booking photo to determine (his height).

i saw that BUT after seeing the picture of him at the court house makes me wonder if the lines where miss marked or the camera angle. Because he looks REALLY short on those videos and stills like 5'4" short unless all those cops are giants.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Jeez, RA helped Libby's aunt with funeral pictures at CVS and told her he wasn't going to charge her anything because the photos were for the funeral.

A newly unsealed affidavit details the clues that led investigators to the suspect in Delphi teen girl killings | CNN

A .40 caliber unspent round that was found near the bodies of two teen Indiana girls was tied to suspect Richard Allen, who was arrested last month in connection with the killings, according to a probable cause affidavit.

www.cnn.com