Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[asyousay]

I am intrigued to where he planned to wash up as from the reports he was muddy and bloody. So unless his wife and teenage daughter were away then where was he going in such a messy blooded state?!

He could hardly claim he had killed a wild animal if he got home and his family were there as surely alarm bells would start ringing for anybody as soon as you hear a report about 2 missing teenagers?

ETA

His car must of also been a mess so he had to clean that out before anybody else got in it.


IMO

 

[Gemmie]

The dots that aren't connecting for me right now but I assume LE knows or can make an educated theory on are:

1. What caused RA to decide to murder these two girls today? HIs attorney makes a point that he has no criminal history, so what was the motive hre? Did he just wake up one day and decide I'm going to kill two teenagers? Doesn't make much sense.
2. If these murders were planned, what are the event(s) that led him to deciding he needed or wanted to kill them? Does the anthony_shots profile play a role here or is that a coincidence? Did RA use it or know of it?
3. Was RA committing the murders on behalf or under orders, direction, plotting with another person? At the PCA hearing, the prosecutor mentioned "others involved" - who are those people and what are their roles?
4. Did RA go to the bridge planning to murder the girls, planning to murder someone, or was this a pure crime of opportunity?

I really hope all this comes out at trial because while I fully believe RA killed A&L, the why part are the dots that aren't connecting right now. Maybe there's more in his past that gives warning signs he's someone who would murder children, but from what we know now it doesn't appear to be visible. It's rare that someone goes from no criminal history to murdering two unrelated children they did not know so the pathway to that is what I'm interested to see play out.

1. It could be just about anything. People can have urges. Sometimes very bad urges, unfortunately. Bad stuff happens all. the. time.
2. I've wondered myself if RMA was using the A_S's acct. LE told KAK that they know for a fact more than one person was using it because the phrasing and way they talk is not the same person. RMA has ties to Peru and his daughter is the same age as KAK so maybe they know each other that way. Not saying she was friends with him (Doubt it!) but just being the same age could make you aware of someone. School? Places kids that age hung out? Knows a female relate? The daughters age being the same as KAKs is the only tie I've been able to think of for RMA and KAK. Otherwise, I doubt he'd know KAK who is almost half his age.
3. I can't imagine anyone giving orders, or him taking orders. Not over something like double murder. But I can imagine plotting with someone to get pictures for the dark web.
4. I do not think it was a crime of opportunity. He left the house with a gun AND a knife, maybe even more things than that in what may be a brownish fanny pack. If you're arming yourself for self protection when you go out you don't need both a gun and a knife to make yourself feel safer. It's either or in my mind if it's for self protection.

A say he had a knife as well as the gun for several reasons. The search warrant listed it (doubt they'd have interest in something they didn't feel was part of the CS), he was bloody, as well as the CS being bloody. I think the gun was used to get them to comply with DTH, but not actually used, as gunshots would likely have been heard and mentioned in MSM. It's my belief that the murder weapon was a knife.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I am intrigued to where he planned to wash up as from the reports he was muddy and bloody. So unless his wife and teenage daughter were away then where was he going in such a messy blooded state?!

He could hardly claim he had killed a wild animal if he got home and his family were there as surely alarm bells would start ringing for anybody as soon as you hear a report about 2 missing teenagers?

ETA

His car must of also been a mess so he had to clean that out before anybody else got in it.


IMO

His wife was presumably at work and he didn’t have a teenage daughter, she was an adult at the time.

 

[Justice101]

His wife was presumably at work and he didn’t have a teenage daughter, she was an adult at the time.

It was a work week so both were probably not home...hence, why he decided to stalk and see if he could commit a crime that day.

 

[EOA]

I suspect what will sink him, is his attempts to explain this in his police interview, assuming trail woman comes up to spec as a witness.

The video of his car, plus seeing the 3 girls, places him on an approximate 'flight path' to the bridge, and as far as we know, he didn't deviate from that. Trail Woman then sees a bridge guy on the bridge - which is where we expect to find RA according to his own version.

There is now no way for him to get off the bridge and past the victims, unless they somehow took a detour to let him slip by. The details of their phone location will be quite critical to this IMO.

To me the most interesting part of the MS podcast discussion is that RA basically told LE he is bridge guy and that could well be part of the killers profile. He got a thrill out of being the suspect.

His mistake IMO, is having had years to think about it, he stuck with his exit path, because he didn't know about Trail woman, and didn't know how accurately photos, cameras and calls would establish a timeline.

He likely believed he could argue he got off the bridge before the timestamp in the video - he really only needs a 5min window I think, to get past where the victims will come on to the trail. But the problem is Trail Woman proves there is no such window - because she sweeps the path between the victims and the bridge.

This already proves BARD that RA=BG

But IMO what MS has not paid attention to, is LE will have tripped him up on this stuff in the interview

Especially I suspect, that knowing what he knew of the evidence, RA will have gone for a fast walk version, to let him get back past the victims carpark entry point. No other version works for him.

What he didn't realise is he needs to get on and off the bridge before Trail Woman gets on to the trail - because she creates a complete "bottle episode' defining the time and space window in which all the events occur. Especially she corroborates the victims arrival time, and sees the accused car still parked at 2.14

The only way i can make it work is if somehow the victims went off trail for some minutes, before the bridge

Is this reasonable doubt? I think if he evolved his story in the interview, he is sunk.

thanks for the post! - I believe we're trying to put this together along the same thought pattern.
Agreed that seeing the 3 girls at Freedom puts him on the flight path toward MHB as you say.
Agreed that per PCA, RA places himself on Platform #1 of MHB which is also where Witness 4 describes seeing someone.

Where my challenge enters, and I can tell from Gray H's video he similarly struggles is trying to account for what seems to be very off-and-on pace changes from seemingly all of the walkers at the scene in order to reconcile the various time-stamp evidence proof. At :36 of Gray's animated video of the timeline he states "Some Assumptions Were Made" which absolutely were necessary to make the unknown timeframes work with the known timestamps. Below are 2 versions of mine per Gray's video, one sorted by person/group, then after that a (more head-scratching) summary version by route:

Juvenile Girl Witnesses 1/2/3 - timestamps of HB 12:43 photo, 1:26 bench photo west of Mears, encounter with BG/RA that had to have occurred after 1:35 based on camera of RA's car, then overhead observation at 1:46 by Witness 4 verified again by camera of her car
-- 30 minutes (extremely slow) 12:43 to 1:13 from north end High Bridge to Mears trailhead
-- 28 minutes (still extremely slow) 1:13 to 1:41 from Mears trailhead to Freedom Bridge
-- 3 minutes (a near-sprint comparably) 1:41 to 1:44 from Freedom Bridge to bridge over SR25 observation by Witness4

BG/RA - only timestamp is of 1:27 Harvestore camera shot of his supposed car, the rest have to be assumed in order to reconcile with various people's accounts, but... RA '17 interview with CO places his arrival at around 1:30, RA's and 3 girls' accounts generally agree on their place of intersection, and RA '22 interview places himself on MHB Platform #1 in agreement with Witness 4 saying she saw someone at same location
-- 9 minutes 1:28 to 1:37 RA has to have remained in his car (to have met the 3 girls where/when took place)
-- 4 minutes (purposeful pace) 1:37 to 1:41 from CPS Parking to Freedom Bridge
-- 4 minutes (very fast) 1:41 to 1:45 from Freedom Bridge to Mears trailhead
-- 2 minutes (lightning fast) 1:45 to 1:47 from Mears trailhead to north end High Bridge
-- 10 minutes 1:47 to 1:57 that is presumed RA stands on Platform #1 'watching fish' while observed by Witness4
-- 5 minutes (now very slow) 1:57 to 2:02 part of the way back (halfway back?) from MHB toward Mears trailhead, before U-turning, remembering per above he'd covered the entire Mears to MHB distance in 2 minutes only moments earlier
-- 7 minutes (even slower) 2:02 to 2:09 from the U-turn point returning to north end MHB (he has to be out of sight looking backwards on A's 2:07 photo
-- 4 minutes (blisteringly fast over rickety surface) 2:09 to 2:13, the believed abduction time, to cross the length of MHB

Witness 4 - timestamp of Harvestore video of her still driving/not yet parked at 1:46, and similar video of her again driving/having left parking at 2:14. This would mean her entire time on the trails was approx 24 minutes 1:48 to 2:12. Gray's video has her practically leaping out of the car just seconds after driving past the camera and already having run to the trailhead in less than a minute from passing the camera, showing you have to rush her pace to make this work. It also is tough to reconcile when she says she passes girls to where they were known to have been at 2:07.
-- 4 minutes (jogging pace) 1:48 to 1:52 from Mears trailhead to north end High Bridge
-- 2 minutes (equal to above pace) 1:52 to 1:54 halfway back (as W4 asserts) from High Bridge towards Mears trailhead.
-- (no time is really built in here for her to have paused at MHB long enough to have observed someone standing 50 to perhaps 150 feet away and noting their clothing as she described) but is reasonable to assume less than a minute IMO
-- 15 minutes from 1:57 to 2:12...it gets questionable here as per the pace she had been moving she'd have arrived back at her car by 1:57 which is a very short total walk/jog of like 9-10 minutes. Either she stopped in place or slowed to a standstill pace near her car, or as Gray assumes in the video she kept walking past her car for awhile then U-turned back to her car (IMO don't recall seeing any description of W4's entire route so while either is kind of a stretch MOO, either could be plausible, and one of those has to have occurred for her account to be believed. In any event she is photo'd west of the parking area driving again by 2:14

A & L - camera photo timestamp of Kelsi's dropoff per PCA just before 1:49, IG southward photo of empty bridge at 2:03, IG photo of A with no one else visible behind at 2:07, L's 43-second video beginning or ending at 2:13
-- 11 minutes (leisurely pace) 1:48 to 1:59 from Mears trailhead to north end High Bridge
-- 14 minutes (still leisurely pace w/stopping) 1:59 to 2:13 to cross the length of MHB

So, per Gray's video and also IMO what's necessary to reconcile the provable timestamps...

from Mears trailhead to north end of High Bridge/MHB
-- 30 minutes for the 3 juvenile girls (perhaps they were very young and couldn't go faster?)
-- 2 minutes for RA/BG
-- 4 minutes for Witness4
-- 11 minutes for A & L

Crossing the length of the High Bridge/MHB
-- 4 minutes for RA/BG
-- 14 minutes for A & L

Interestingly observed that the older (and more out-of-shape?) people meaning RA/BG and Witness4 (to make the timeline/scenario reconcilable) need to be moving significantly faster compared to the younger more athletic people.

MOO - Blows my mind that IF this was unplanned that everything happened in such a short window of time - RA/BG drives from home to trails to take a walk, perhaps something he's done numerous times, then within a half-hour he instead performs an abduction of 2 teenage local girls. Even if he'd been kind of looking for an opportunity such as this, the ground to cover and number of things one would have to think of or consider their tracks, would seem staggeringly difficult.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I agree that BG's evil compulsions coupled with an odd complacency points to the actions of a serial killer.

However, I expected the DNA now in CODIS would result in more charges. Maybe a) there hasn't been enough time to connect RA to other cases, b) he has been incredibly lucky, or c) this is, in fact, his first violent crime.

If they do have matches or info on links to other crimes, they have absolutely no reason or motivation to disclose that at this time. He is safely locked away at least until early next year. They can take their time getting their ducks in a row and drop any additional charges at that time if necessary. If he's denied bail, they can wait even longer.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I am intrigued to where he planned to wash up as from the reports he was muddy and bloody. So unless his wife and teenage daughter were away then where was he going in such a messy blooded state?!

He could hardly claim he had killed a wild animal if he got home and his family were there as surely alarm bells would start ringing for anybody as soon as you hear a report about 2 missing teenagers?

ETA

His car must of also been a mess so he had to clean that out before anybody else got in it.


IMO

I just assume his wife was at work and his daughter at school or work, that afternoon.
In which case, coming home and cleaning up would have been fairly simple.

While we do have a witness saying he was muddy and bloody, it's entirely possible he only had a little blood on him, and cleaning up was much easier than we're all suspecting.

jmo

 

[asyousay]

His wife was presumably at work and he didn’t have a teenage daughter, she was an adult at the time.

Thanks for the daughter update I thought she was about 17 at the time. My mistake

 

[ACG2x]

1. It could be just about anything. People can have urges. Sometimes very bad urges, unfortunately. Bad stuff happens all. the. time.
2. I've wondered myself if RMA was using the A_S's acct. LE told KAK that they know for a fact more than one person was using it because the phrasing and way they talk is not the same person. RMA has ties to Peru and his daughter is the same age as KAK so maybe they know each other that way. Not saying she was friends with him (Doubt it!) but just being the same age could make you aware of someone. School? Places kids that age hung out? Knows a female relate? The daughters age being the same as KAKs is the only tie I've been able to think of for RMA and KAK. Otherwise, I doubt he'd know KAK who is almost half his age.
3. I can't imagine anyone giving orders, or him taking orders. Not over something like double murder. But I can imagine plotting with someone to get pictures for the dark web.
4. I do not think it was a crime of opportunity. He left the house with a gun AND a knife, maybe even more things than that in what may be a brownish fanny pack. If you're arming yourself for self protection when you go out you don't need both a gun and a knife to make yourself feel safer. It's either or in my mind if it's for self protection.

A say he had a knife as well as the gun for several reasons. The search warrant listed it (doubt they'd have interest in something they didn't feel was part of the CS), he was bloody, as well as the CS being bloody. I think the gun was used to get them to comply with DTH, but not actually used, as gunshots would likely have been heard and mentioned in MSM. It's my belief that the murder weapon was a knife.

Agreed on the manner of death. I have always thought it's either a knife or strangulation. I can't share why the latter is a suspected COD here due to TOS.

If there is a connection to KAK I suspect it's using the anthony_shots profile and perhaps he doesn't even know KAK the person but the online persona. He knows him through his screen name and whatever Dark Web stuff they used and that's it. Often in that world you never know the government name or location of who you are talking to. It's all behind proxies and firewalls on purpose.

Right now it just doesn't seem logical that RA had this violent urge that morning and decided to go to the MHB area to kidnap and murder children on the day after the a_s profile planned to meet L at that exact spot. That's a heck of a coincidence. There is nothing we know of in his past that would suggest he'd do that. I very much believe he killed A&L, but what or who drove him to that is the big mystery right now. Doesn't make him any less guilty but it more makes me hope that LE has enough right now to punish anyone even remotely involved to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[ACG2x]

And it's starting already - pro-defendant groups claiming that LE's assessment of the bullet found at the scene being in RA's gun is "junk science".

 

[asyousay]

And it's starting already - pro-defendant groups claiming that LE's assessment of the bullet found at the scene being in RA's gun is "junk science".

Who has admitted to being on the bridge mins before the girls arrived , in the same clothes as BG.


This is some framing job if so.

 

[KlaraBell]

I think someone asked this near the end of the previous thread, but I didn't see an answer. If the muddy/bloody sighting is accurate, wouldn't it be caught on the Harvestore camera?

 

[CNYDarkStar]

I suspect what will sink him, is his attempts to explain this in his police interview, assuming trail woman comes up to spec as a witness.

The video of his car, plus seeing the 3 girls, places him on an approximate 'flight path' to the bridge, and as far as we know, he didn't deviate from that. Trail Woman then sees a bridge guy on the bridge - which is where we expect to find RA according to his own version.

There is now no way for him to get off the bridge and past the victims, unless they somehow took a detour to let him slip by. The details of their phone location will be quite critical to this IMO.

To me the most interesting part of the MS podcast discussion is that RA basically told LE he is bridge guy and that could well be part of the killers profile. He got a thrill out of being the suspect.

His mistake IMO, is having had years to think about it, he stuck with his exit path, because he didn't know about Trail woman, and didn't know how accurately photos, cameras and calls would establish a timeline.

He likely believed he could argue he got off the bridge before the timestamp in the video - he really only needs a 5min window I think, to get past where the victims will come on to the trail. But the problem is Trail Woman proves there is no such window - because she sweeps the path between the victims and the bridge.

This already proves BARD that RA=BG

But IMO what MS has not paid attention to, is LE will have tripped him up on this stuff in the interview

Especially I suspect, that knowing what he knew of the evidence, RA will have gone for a fast walk version, to let him get back past the victims carpark entry point. No other version works for him.

What he didn't realise is he needs to get on and off the bridge before Trail Woman gets on to the trail - because she creates a complete "bottle episode' defining the time and space window in which all the events occur. Especially she corroborates the victims arrival time, and sees the accused car still parked at 2.14

The only way i can make it work is if somehow the victims went off trail for some minutes, before the bridge

Is this reasonable doubt? I think if he evolved his story in the interview, he is sunk.

Well stated. Seems many of us are not taking into consideration that all of the phones involved will be data mined and used, if not already, to geo-locate and map all of their timelines/stories. This will be hard to overcome, hopefully.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

I suspect what will sink him, is his attempts to explain this in his police interview, assuming trail woman comes up to spec as a witness.

The video of his car, plus seeing the 3 girls, places him on an approximate 'flight path' to the bridge, and as far as we know, he didn't deviate from that. Trail Woman then sees a bridge guy on the bridge - which is where we expect to find RA according to his own version.

There is now no way for him to get off the bridge and past the victims, unless they somehow took a detour to let him slip by. The details of their phone location will be quite critical to this IMO.

To me the most interesting part of the MS podcast discussion is that RA basically told LE he is bridge guy and that could well be part of the killers profile. He got a thrill out of being the suspect.

His mistake IMO, is having had years to think about it, he stuck with his exit path, because he didn't know about Trail woman, and didn't know how accurately photos, cameras and calls would establish a timeline.

He likely believed he could argue he got off the bridge before the timestamp in the video - he really only needs a 5min window I think, to get past where the victims will come on to the trail. But the problem is Trail Woman proves there is no such window - because she sweeps the path between the victims and the bridge.

This already proves BARD that RA=BG

But IMO what MS has not paid attention to, is LE will have tripped him up on this stuff in the interview

Especially I suspect, that knowing what he knew of the evidence, RA will have gone for a fast walk version, to let him get back past the victims carpark entry point. No other version works for him.

What he didn't realise is he needs to get on and off the bridge before Trail Woman gets on to the trail - because she creates a complete "bottle episode' defining the time and space window in which all the events occur. Especially she corroborates the victims arrival time, and sees the accused car still parked at 2.14

The only way i can make it work is if somehow the victims went off trail for some minutes, before the bridge

Is this reasonable doubt? I think if he evolved his story in the interview, he is sunk.

Well stated. Seems many of us are not taking into consideration that all of the phones involved will be data mined and used, if not already, to geo-locate and map all of their timelines/stories. This will be hard to overcome, hopefully.

 

[loveisthemovement]

Did RA admit to being in the area wearing certain clothing before or after the video/picture information was released?

 

[CNYDarkStar]

So where would he linger so the girls can get on the bridge?

As in Abby’s photo he isn’t in that still photo behind them which is interesting as she seems quite a distance from the beginning of the bridge. So he must of given it a bit of time for them to get over half way across imo

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, I presume it has, but it seems to me that there is a figure(BG?) at the very end of the bridge in the first pic of Abby...

 

[CNYDarkStar]

I agree that I think RA initially walked back off the bridge toward the trail and passed A and L as they came on the bridge. Perhaps there was an odd interaction or he stared at them uncomfortably that already put them on edge or made them feel he was hinky. But then he continues walking on the trail so they brush it off. Once they see him coming back at them on the bridge again, I can only imagine they were scared and knew something was wrong. Why he would be walking back towards them again so soon? MOO

Precisely. Very unnerving, which is why she recorded him, just in case. Unfortunately just in case became very real.
It's so heartbreaking to know that all they had to do was run and scream in the opposite direction. Quite certain that would have saved their lives.

 

[asyousay]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, I presume it has, but it seems to me that there is a figure(BG?) at the very end of the bridge in the first pic of Abby...

Oh can you link me please I would love to see it?

I remember when this first happened and everybody trying to look for shapes in trees and so on. I can’t believe that was nearly 6 years ago now.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I agree that BG's evil compulsions coupled with an odd complacency points to the actions of a serial killer.

However, I expected the DNA now in CODIS would result in more charges. Maybe a) there hasn't been enough time to connect RA to other cases, b) he has been incredibly lucky, or c) this is, in fact, his first violent crime.

Well said!

 

[CNYDarkStar]

Let’s not forget for all he told the truth he lied when he needed to like ….

He didn’t see Libby and Abby and he had to of as the adult female placed him on the first platform and she turned around and then started to walk back and she saw Abby and Libby as they walked past her going to the bridge.


So why would he lie about the most important part of his story if he was truly innocent here?


Mooooooo

True. But remember also that eye witness testimony is commonly unreliable. And sometimes, people like to insert themselves. They tend to exaggerate or conflate what they saw/heard/know.