Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[Gemmie]

Exactly Sparty, this is what I've said a few times. We don't know what they did or didn't do. My guess is that they were on to him rather quickly and were waiting for the right and precise evidence to snag him.

Agreed. Carter himself has said they were "one piece away" from solving it. Sometimes these things take time.

"One piece away, one piece away," Carter said when asked how close they were to solving the case. "Eventually, somebody will do the right thing. It might be the killer himself; might be a person who knows who he is."

ISP: 'One piece away' from solving Delphi homicides

DELPHI, Ind. (WLFI) — Three years after two teens were last seen alive in Delphi, Indiana State Police said they are "one piece away" from finding the killer.

www.wlfi.com

 

[newredtabby]

THANK YOU! I find the whole racking thing to intimidate ridiculous. If you are going to pull a gun you have to be ready to use it the second you pull it. Hollywood uses this technique all the time and it's laughable. Especially when cops or SWAT are about to go in and bust someone. Those guns are loaded and ready to fire well before they get anywhere close to pulling them. It's the Safety that is the last thing to be switched off before engagement.

I also think it makes no sense to clear a gun at a crime scene! The person just committed two murders and has to get the heck out of Dodge. He might need to use the gun again if he encounters other people or law enforcement on his exit out of there. It would make more sense to keep the weapon loaded until clear and in relative safety out of the area.


Of course if RA is a complete idiot he screws up a ton in the commission of this crime. Let's list his screw ups so far:

- He gets recorded approaching the two victims plastering his image all over the USA and rest of the world.

- His voice is recorded in the commission of a kidnapping

- He is spotted by several people. Not only before the murders but after the murders.

- He walks covered in blood and mud on a public road, OUT IN THE OPEN where he is spotted.

- He willfully goes to the police and admits that he was in the exact same area at the exact same time that two minors are brutally murdered. Not only that, but he admits to wearing and STILL owning the exact same clothes that the suspect in the video is wearing! The same clothes that were allegedly bloody and muddy. He KEEPS THEM!

- His car is spotted by a camera and by a witness in the vicinity of the murders at the same time as the murders.

- He keeps his cell phone on him and uses it at the same area, at the same time of the murders.

- He is completely incompetent with guns and doesn't feel comfortable enough with a gun to travel with it loaded and ready to fire. All he has to do is switch the safety off to fire if he intends to use it. He is perfectly comfortable murdering two girls yet, he is uncomfortable traveling with a fully loaded weapon so.... He clears the round from his gun at the murder location before.... he makes his escape!! He leaves an unspent round from the exact same gun that he owns at the scene of a double murder. This makes absolutely no sense to me...at all!!! Unless he's leaving a 'calling card' which makes him an idiot.

- He never changes his appearence or alters his look in the 5 yrs since the murders.

- He never moves from the area despite his image and police sketches of him being plastered ALL over town and the US.

- He keeps his car that he used to drive to the scene of the murders. The same car that he drove home in covered in blood and mud from the homicides.

- He keeps the same gun that he used in committing the kidnapping. He might have kept the same knife used in the murders.

- He interacts with the parents of one of the murder victims and gives them free photos.

- He speaks to the police WITHOUT a lawyer present.....at least 2 times!!! Not only that but he fails to contact a lawyer after a search warrant was served, AND police searched his home for 12 freakin hours, towed his car away, confiscated weapons, computers, clothes etc, etc. WHO DOESN'T CONTACT A LAWYER AFTER THIS??????!!!!!!!

I'm sure I'm missing a few things. Despite all these screw ups this criminal mastermind managed to hide in plain sight for 5 freakin years!!!

The complete and total incompetence of this alleged criminal is massive if he is actually the murderer. One for the ages. Yet, it took this long to apprehend him. There's a lot of weirdness in this case on both sides. A lot just doesn't make sense. Just saying.

Point of clarification: Many service pistols, including the Sig P226 do NOT have a safety. Once they are racked, pulling the trigger ALWAYS fires the gun. I own a PD issued HK 40 cal, and it has no safety either.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Are you not convinced by the ejection marks on the bullet?

I'm sure they have RA's DNA by now (as they successfully served a search warrant for the gun, and I assume it included things related to the gun, such as the gun case and any ammo - all of which would have his DNA).

RA put himself at the scene of the crime. Didn't he also admit to owning a jacket that matched the one in the famous bridge picture, taken by one of the girls?

I believe they have tons more evidence about the crime, but the damning piece for RA is that a bullet from his gun was found in between the bodies at the murder site. And the gun in question is not the most common model - that must have put RA on their radar. Each time they interviewed him, he gave up more information.

Search warrants are not that hard to get and probable cause is a low bar. At any rate, a Judge issued it which makes it "actual probable cause."

No, I am not convinced in the slightest by the ejection marks on an unspent bullet. Sure, RA is charged, but he did not go before a grand jury. That gives me pause in and of itself. None of his peers heard the evidence and decided that there was enough to move forward with a trial. Furthermore, the reasons given for this alleged double child murderer falling through the cracks and remaining there for nigh on 6 years are many, varied, conflicting, and border on unbelievable.

Yes, judges routinely sign off on search warrants. They do so, imo, without much-needed checks and balances, as a portion of those judges do not operate within the confines of reasonable expectations, or reason at all, for that matter. Judges act with near impunity. (Note: I am not commenting on any judge in particular.)

I hope you are correct and they do have voluminous evidence against anyone being prosecuted for crimes against A and L.

I have been underwhelmed by LE's handling of this case since the search was called off on the evening of 2/13. Again, I hope that for anyone charged with any part of A and L's demise, that LE has more than ample objective evidence to secure conviction(s). I hope LE is loaded for bear. In the case of RA, I have my doubts. Perhaps, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[layer]

If he wanted to make the gun safe for carry back to his car all he had to do is engage the safety, not eject all the rounds.

Sig P226 has a decocker, no safety.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Just like BTK, he knew LE would eventually come for him. So where did he slip up?

Computer disk may have cracked BTK case

The routine use of a computer may have helped police crack the BTK serial killer case and arrest their only suspect.

www.nbcnews.com

An electronic imprint in a disk sent to a Wichita TV station by the BTK killer had been traced to the church.

As if Rader made a mistake (on purpose).

We cannot logic our way into the minds of these kinds of criminals. Perhaps that's why an arrest took so long?

It is sad that sadistic killers elude capture for often long periods of time.

We can be glad that few people are so twisted & evil that they consider their hideous crimes to be matter-of-fact events not the horror that more normal people see them to be.

MOO

The mistake Dennis Rader made was in trusting the police and Lt. Landwehr when he asked if he communicated via a floppy disk the police would be able to trace it. The police told him no. He believed them. He was angry about being lied to about it by police. His initial mistake was in resurfacing on the 30th anniversary to communicate again. Couldn't help himself.

 

[jdglove]

In my opinion, he did not plan on murdering anyone that day. He passed other groups of girls on the paths that day and did not molest them. One group said "hi" to him but he pretty much ignored them, according to the Probable Cause Affadavit. When he left the bridge, he encountered Abby and Libby coming towards the bridge. See the Gray Hughes video on this (below). I believe something happened in their interaction as they passed each other on the path that upset him and them both. I hope the girls did not say to each other " what a creep" and he overheard. In the recording on Libby's phone, Libby's grandmother reportedly said they spoke of a "creepy guy" and "is he coming back" or something of that nature. See second Gray Hughes video below. So my theory is, he became upset at something one of the girl's said, and initially walked away, but then, after stewing abut it for a minute or two, he turned around and went back onto the bridge, following the girls, and things spun out of control. This is my opinion only.

I agree. A crime of spontaneous uncontrollable rage followed maybe by panic over being discovered seems to fit the facts better than other theories.

For one thing, the details that have become public don't seem to reflect much if any predatory planning, and no prior history. If it was some sort of planned SA or abduction or serial killing, why didn't he wait for a time when there were no witnesses? Why didn't he wait for a single lone victim who was more vulnerable? Why do it so close to home? Why didn't he leave his phone at home or disable it so he couldn't be easily tracked? Why did he not have a better escape planned? Why didn't he consider some sort of alibi? And why didn't he just act more discretely over all?

Granted, killers are not geniuses, and a murder or SA could be impulsive or opportunistic, and no one knows what a deranged person could be thinking.

But one of the girls (as heard on the video) said to the effect "Is that creepy guy still following us?" and the other girl said "ummhmmm" as if maybe the guy was within earshot. I wonder if those comments and/or some earlier interaction triggered him to go berserk in a rage, possibly drug or alcohol fueled or following some domestic altercation. Once he crossed a certain line that would assure his personal life would be ruined, he may have panicked into the killings hoping his wife and kids would never find out. It's even possible he schemed to disguise the crime scene as if a cult or serial killer was involved, possibly also explaining why he spent so much time at the scene.

 

[5W's]

We don’t know why LE didn’t have RA under the radar all along but by all accounts his report to the conservation officer was initially overlooked for five years.

“Allen told a state conservation officer he was in the area on the day of the killings, but his report may have been considered unfounded because he said he didn’t see anything, a police source has told I-Team 8. But, after five years and countless interviews, investigators had become frustrated and ordered a review of tips and case files; that was when Allen became a suspect.”

Judge orders Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to court

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The judge has ordered Richard Allen, the suspect in the 2017 Delphi murders of two teen girls, to appear in person in the courtroom on Tuesday. I-Team 8 expects to get at least a partial glimpse into the Delphi murders investigation if the judge releases the probable cause...

www.wishtv.com

Unfortunately as brave as she was to take that video and of course we all applaud her for it, sadly it was too grainy and his face is rather obscured by his longer hair, face tilting downwards (I think he kept his head downwards as he was taking them away just in case they escape or something he doesn't expect happens he is not readily idenitified.) His hat helping his hair further push the hair onto his face and creating shadows. His hair sort of casting a bit onto his eyes. All of these and probably more factors worked to conceal his identity from everyone. MOO.

 

[M. Kay]

In my opinion, he did not plan on murdering anyone that day. He passed other groups of girls on the paths that day and did not molest them.

This opinion pops up intermittently, so I'm not singling this post out with my reply. Why did he have his jacket stuffed with items, --some still unknown, and a gun we do "know" of, and a knife (they investigated the sale of?) if he had no plan that day?
So he passed other young girls in different logistics...tactically he was shrewd. I cannot imagine in a town of that size that he planned to rape and leave them alive and then go to work at CVS.
They were cat-fished*, so first comment from LE was "watch what your children are doing online." That internet trail of evidence was discovered on Libby's phone when they were still "just missing".
Source for this* evidence is sister Kelsi German at Comic Con.

 

[asyousay]

There is zero evidence of the girls being catfished by RA. There is no mention at all of that being the way he found the girls and considering he has had nearly 6 years of freedom they obviously didn’t find electrons tracing him to the girls.


Mooo

 

[Bergmann]

THANK YOU! I find the whole racking thing to intimidate ridiculous. If you are going to pull a gun you have to be ready to use it the second you pull it. Hollywood uses this technique all the time and it's laughable. Especially when cops or SWAT are about to go in and bust someone. Those guns are loaded and ready to fire well before they get anywhere close to pulling them. It's the Safety that is the last thing to be switched off before engagement.

I also think it makes no sense to clear a gun at a crime scene! The person just committed two murders and has to get the heck out of Dodge. He might need to use the gun again if he encounters other people or law enforcement on his exit out of there. It would make more sense to keep the weapon loaded until clear and in relative safety out of the area.


Of course if RA is a complete idiot he screws up a ton in the commission of this crime. Let's list his screw ups so far:

- He gets recorded approaching the two victims plastering his image all over the USA and rest of the world.

- His voice is recorded in the commission of a kidnapping

- He is spotted by several people. Not only before the murders but after the murders.

- He walks covered in blood and mud on a public road, OUT IN THE OPEN where he is spotted.

- He willfully goes to the police and admits that he was in the exact same area at the exact same time that two minors are brutally murdered. Not only that, but he admits to wearing and STILL owning the exact same clothes that the suspect in the video is wearing! The same clothes that were allegedly bloody and muddy. He KEEPS THEM!

- His car is spotted by a camera and by a witness in the vicinity of the murders at the same time as the murders.

- He keeps his cell phone on him and uses it at the same area, at the same time of the murders.

- He is completely incompetent with guns and doesn't feel comfortable enough with a gun to travel with it loaded and ready to fire. All he has to do is switch the safety off to fire if he intends to use it. He is perfectly comfortable murdering two girls yet, he is uncomfortable traveling with a fully loaded weapon so.... He clears the round from his gun at the murder location before.... he makes his escape!! He leaves an unspent round from the exact same gun that he owns at the scene of a double murder. This makes absolutely no sense to me...at all!!! Unless he's leaving a 'calling card' which makes him an idiot.

- He never changes his appearence or alters his look in the 5 yrs since the murders.

- He never moves from the area despite his image and police sketches of him being plastered ALL over town and the US.

- He keeps his car that he used to drive to the scene of the murders. The same car that he drove home in covered in blood and mud from the homicides.

- He keeps the same gun that he used in committing the kidnapping. He might have kept the same knife used in the murders.

- He interacts with the parents of one of the murder victims and gives them free photos.

- He speaks to the police WITHOUT a lawyer present.....at least 2 times!!! Not only that but he fails to contact a lawyer after a search warrant was served, AND police searched his home for 12 freakin hours, towed his car away, confiscated weapons, computers, clothes etc, etc. WHO DOESN'T CONTACT A LAWYER AFTER THIS??????!!!!!!!

I'm sure I'm missing a few things. Despite all these screw ups this criminal mastermind managed to hide in plain sight for 5 freakin years!!!

The complete and total incompetence of this alleged criminal is massive if he is actually the murderer. One for the ages. Yet, it took this long to apprehend him. There's a lot of weirdness in this case on both sides. A lot just doesn't make sense. Just saying.

I know you didn't intend it in this way, but it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that the defense case potentially being along similar lines - 'it just doesn't make any sense does it?' plea to the jury.

Obviously we await the existence of more telling evidence from the prosecution at trial.

 

[Andieinsyd]

I know you didn't intend it in this way, but it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that the defense case potentially being along similar lines - 'it just doesn't make any sense does it?' plea to the jury.

Obviously we await the existence of more telling evidence from the prosecution at trial.

Yes agree with this. I think the defence will be big on RAs behaviour after the fact. Told LE he was there on the day, stayed in a local public facing job role, didn’t get rid of gun or car, didn’t move away, didn’t act in a way we would expect a guilty person to act at all…oh and still wearing a navy jacket Around the place.

 

[asyousay]

Yes agree with this. I think the defence will be big on RAs behaviour after the fact. Told LE he was there on the day, stayed in a local public facing job role, didn’t get rid of gun or car, didn’t move away, didn’t act in a way we would expect a guilty person to act at all…oh and still wearing a navy jacket Around the place.

You can also argue the fact though that he didn’t come forward when he wasn’t questioned weeks after they were found.


That’s certainly suspicious because anybody innocent would have thought “ well the police haven’t come knocking after I placed myself on the bridge and look like BG” il chase them up. IMO


I am sure I am not alone in that thinking either that if innocent you would do all you could to help the investigation and he was literally right there.

 

[WingsOverTX]

The mistake Dennis Rader made was in trusting the police and Lt. Landwehr when he asked if he communicated via a floppy disk the police would be able to trace it. The police told him no. He believed them. He was angry about being lied to about it by police. His initial mistake was in resurfacing on the 30th anniversary to communicate again. Couldn't help himself.

BBM
Exactly.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

MOO I don’t find racking ridiculous, for intimidation or just to do something as he steps into an irrevocable act of criminal excel.

Whether one does or does not find racking ridiculous, ejecting an unspent round is utterly absurd in that moment, in that location, given that he'd just allegedly murdered two young teens! IMOO

Yes, I'm bloody from head to toe, but by all means, let me fumble around (while I'm dripping with slippery blood) and eject the racked round so I can what? Safely walk back to my car? Not drive with a loaded firearm? (Nothing anyone has suggested or that I've been able to conjure up in my mind makes a lick of sense here, imoo.)

For people who conceal carry, it's quite customary to carry a firearm that does not have a safety. I don't know if RA did or did not conceal carry. My point is that it's not necessary to unchamber the round to get back to his car safely.

Other considerations...
Okay, so he's not supposed to drive with a loaded handgun. He just allegedly murdered two young teen girls and is covered in blood, but he's going to mind his Ps and Qs on the lawful transport of a firearm? If he's pulled over, he's soaked in the victims' blood, and he's got way bigger problems than a chambered round in a firearm.

AMOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

You can also argue the fact though that he didn’t come forward when he wasn’t questioned weeks after they were found.


That’s certainly suspicious because anybody innocent would have thought “ well the police haven’t come knocking after I placed myself on the bridge and look like BG” il chase them up. IMO


I am sure I am not alone in that thinking either that if innocent you would do all you could to help the investigation and he was literally right there.

You might have fewer on your side there than you think. I would never for any reason speak to LE about an investigation without an attorney present, and I definitely wouldn't go chasing them down when I'd already given a statement. Are you by chance in the UK, where it's no longer legal for LE to lie? There are too many accounts of since exonerated men and women who were just trying to be helpful, trying to be cooperative, and who thought "I have nothing to worry about; I'm innocent." AMOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Point of clarification: Many service pistols, including the Sig P226 do NOT have a safety. Once they are racked, pulling the trigger ALWAYS fires the gun. I own a PD issued HK 40 cal, and it has no safety either.

The Sig P226 model also features an available Sig manufactured trigger with safety that can be purchased and swapped out, should someone be too anxious to carry without a safety.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I know you didn't intend it in this way, but it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that the defense case potentially being along similar lines - 'it just doesn't make any sense does it?' plea to the jury.

Obviously we await the existence of more telling evidence from the prosecution at trial.

Thus far, closing arguments for the defense nearly write themselves.

 

[asyousay]

You might have fewer on your side there than you think. I would never for any reason speak to LE about an investigation without an attorney present, and I definitely wouldn't go chasing them down when I'd already given a statement. Are you by chance in the UK, where it's no longer legal for LE to lie? There are too many accounts of since exonerated men and women who were just trying to be helpful, trying to be cooperative, and who thought "I have nothing to worry about; I'm innocent." AMOO

Yes I am in the UK and certainly anybody I know would walk into a police station to help an investigation if we knew something. I don’t fear the police and certainly wasn’t brought up to. I trust them explicitly to do their duty. No denying you get some rotten apples but that’s the same for all walks of life.


Imo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Sig P226 has a decocker, no safety.

It does have available a Sig produced trigger with safety that can be swapped out for the stock trigger, should someone desire a safety mechanism for a concealed carry firearm.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes I am in the UK and certainly anybody I know would walk into a police station to help an investigation if we knew something. I don’t fear the police and certainly wasn’t brought up to. I trust them explicitly to do their duty. No denying you get some rotten apples but that’s the same for all walks of life.


Imo

I don't fear the police either, but neither am I going to stroll into a police station without a lawyer. While on the subject, the blame for false imprisonment does not rest solely upon some LE procuring false confessions. The blame rests also on judges, the appeals process, and other components of the justice system, including that it can take years, post conviction, for new evidence of innocence to be considered, if it's considered at all. MOO