Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[CNYDarkStar]

In my opinion, handgun and knife are easily explained--in a rural area of a midwestern state free from restrictive firearms laws, many men carry handguns routinely. <modsnip>

I don't think there is any agreement about what if anything he stuffed in his jacket. There are many theories--I recall some people seriously suggesting he had a puppy hidden inside his jacket! Perhaps he has nothing stuffed in his jacket. My opinion only.

It's not the having of a gun and knife, it's the bullet located between the two girls and him supposedly having no idea how or why it's there.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Since RA voluntarily placed himself on the bridge, does the sketch matter?

Maybe not but it's just something I think any half decent defense attorney is going to bring up.

 

[TL4S]

Since RA voluntarily placed himself on the bridge, does the sketch matter?

JMO, but the sketch must still have significance. It remains on the ISP and FBI Delphi tip sites.

Delphi Homicide Investigation

UNKNOWN SUSPECT | Federal Bureau of Investigation
------------------------------------------

I can only speculate on why the ISP is still choosing the YBG sketch over the OBG sketch (or over including both), when the OBG seems to represent RA better both in age and features. DC has said various forms of this following:

Doug Carter Radio Interview Transcript - Hammer & Nigel Show [Delphi murders, Richard Allen & Kegan Kline Discussion] - CrimeLights
HAMMER: What do you think the biggest mistake has been? Can you talk about that? Like, I know there’s the ongoing investigation, but a couple of times today you’ve said you know “we’re ‘gonna learn from this, we’ve made mistakes.” Give me an example.

NIGEL: Was the sketch? The two sketches?

DOUG CARTER: No, I don’t think that was a mistake at all. That was, frankly, a pretty effective strategy that kept information coming our way.

HAMMER: –‘Cause the second one looked nothing like this guy that’s into custody. The first one, you can put a side-by-side up with Richard Allen and you can say “I see that!” The second one looked nothing like that guy.

DOUG CARTER: Yeah. Isn’t that somethin’?

HAMMER: But was that the right thing to put that out? ‘Cause clearly it doesn’t look like him!

DOUG CARTER: Well, again, remember that a sketch is not a photograph. It’s a sketch based on human recollection. So, I was convinced that eventually we were going to put those together and we were going to be able to take them apart, and there is going to be the individual.*

[*Note: Supt. Carter is referring to a belief he shared multiple times in the past, that when the the killer was eventually caught, his appearance would favor a combination of both sketches merged together.]

So, you know, we’re human beings. We’re expected to be superhuman. We’re not. And, we do the best we can every single day, and that’s what we’ll continue to do.
----------------------------------------

We also have this:

Source: Investigators have known for years that the Delphi suspect was on the Monon High Bridge the day Abby and Libby were killed

Investigators believe Allen is the man on the bridge in the cellphone video and in sketches released by police, the source tells I-Team 8.

 

[Niner]

SBMFF

They did search RL's home for exactly that.

Pg 10:
View attachment 386933

You should read his PCA. And no, I'm not trying to be snarky. His PCA has a lot of good information in it since they did consider him to be the murderer at one point. It's a good read IMO.

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

I noticed on there "animal hair samples". Does he have animals? animal hair on the girls?

 

[TL4S]

Maybe not but it's just something I think any half decent defense attorney is going to bring up.

I would want to know more, too, especially with the prosecution claiming they have good reason to believe there are other people involved. We have this witness who saw something they thought needed reporting, who apparently saw someone like a youthful, full, reddish-brown wavy haired, clean shaven younger man, 5'6" - 5'10". Who at the time LE described as 20s to late 30s, looking young for his age. Not the same person as the first sketch.

Now both sketches are supposed to be RA, who was 45 at the time of the murders, who at least one witness described as having gray hair with maybe some brown, 5'4", and not who I would describe as looking young for his age. IMO.

I get it...sketches aren't photographs, etc. But those sketches are like Rocky and Bullwinkle.

I completely think there is more to this story than what we have heard, and I think the sketches, and LE's "strategy" to use the younger one, will be an important part of that story. JMO, but I think it will make sense to us in the end.

 

[Gemmie]

I noticed on there "animal hair samples". Does he have animals? animal hair on the girls?

While I don't know for sure, a lot of people have pet dogs and/or cats, so it's quite possible in my mind. I know that if I did something wrong that they suspected me for, all they'd have to do was test my cat as I'd be 100% likely to leave cat hair at the crime scene. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. lol

 

[AC4RD]

<modsnip: quoted post removed> I feel strongly that the prosecution would never have charged RA and moved forward with prosecution, if they didn't have a lot more evidence for the trial. Just MHO but the unspent round IS pretty doubtful for a big role in the trial. But prosecution must surely know that, also.

Again just MHO but after all these years, I don't think LE would have taken a chance on an arrest unless they could go to court with the evidence they have.

 

[Justice101]

<modsnip: quoted post removed> I feel strongly that the prosecution would never have charged RA and moved forward with prosecution, if they didn't have a lot more evidence for the trial. Just MHO but the unspent round IS pretty doubtful for a big role in the trial. But prosecution must surely know that, also.

Again just MHO but after all these years, I don't think LE would have taken a chance on an arrest unless they could go to court with the evidence they have.

He placed himself at the scene around the time of the killings. He was seen and witnessed by 5 different people who will testify as such. Pseudo science of the shell casing ejection mark will probably not be used.

Remember, they only arrested him AFTER the search. So obviously, they got the gun for the ejection marks but I'm sure they got something else much bigger that they will use in court.

I feel confident they will have more than enough... but it will not go to trial once discovery is in place. Unless RA has convinced his family he is innocent and might risk a trial. Bad move on his part if he does.

 

[MistyWaters]

My question, as a juror, would be what is up with the second younger guy sketch.

Sketches aren’t the same as photographs. Neither of the two sketches were created by eye witnesses to the crime and were merely a tool circulated by LE in the seeking of tips. Various websites state the reliability of sketches to be notoriously low, established through various studies.

Q. Whether a composite sketch used to identify a defendant can be admitted as evidence to prove the defendant's guilt.

A. Composite sketches are barred by the hearsay rule and thus are generally inadmissible against defendants to prove guilt.”

liibulletin: People v. Maldonado

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Sketches aren’t the same as photographs. Neither of the two sketches were created by eye witnesses to the crime and were merely a tool circulated by LE in the seeking of tips. Various websites state the reliability of sketches to be notoriously low, established through various studies.

Q. Whether a composite sketch used to identify a defendant can be admitted as evidence to prove the defendant's guilt.

A. Composite sketches are barred by the hearsay rule and thus are generally inadmissible against defendants to prove guilt.”

liibulletin: People v. Maldonado

If the two sketches weren't created by eye witnesses, then where did they get the information?

 

[WingsOverTX]

Sketches aren’t the same as photographs. Neither of the two sketches were created by eye witnesses to the crime and were merely a tool circulated by LE in the seeking of tips. Various websites state the reliability of sketches to be notoriously low, established through various studies.

Q. Whether a composite sketch used to identify a defendant can be admitted as evidence to prove the defendant's guilt.

A. Composite sketches are barred by the hearsay rule and thus are generally inadmissible against defendants to prove guilt.”

liibulletin: People v. Maldonado

BBM
All the jury has to do is follow the law. If it goes to trial. And if they heed the judge's instructions when deliberating.
MOO

 

[Fargo]

DELPHI, Ind. — Richard Allen's attorneys want their planned defense kept secret from everyone including the prosecutor in the Delphi murders case.

On Dec. 12, the special judge approved that request for private hearings.

In a filing to the court, Allen's attorneys asked for funding for the cost of experts. His attorneys point out that Allen does not have the money needed to help in his defense.

Allen's attorneys also asked for the judge to order court personnel and court reporters to keep any information in the court hearings confidential.

Judge approves Richard Allen's attorneys request for private hearings on money for experts in his defense

Allen's attorneys also asked for funding for the cost of experts to be used in his defense.

www.wthr.com

 

[mooseandcoffee]

No, I am not convinced in the slightest by the ejection marks on an unspent bullet. Sure, RA is charged, but he did not go before a grand jury. That gives me pause in and of itself. None of his peers heard the evidence and decided that there was enough to move forward with a trial. Furthermore, the reasons given for this alleged double child murderer falling through the cracks and remaining there for nigh on 6 years are many, varied, conflicting, and border on unbelievable.

Yes, judges routinely sign off on search warrants. They do so, imo, without much-needed checks and balances, as a portion of those judges do not operate within the confines of reasonable expectations, or reason at all, for that matter. Judges act with near impunity. (Note: I am not commenting on any judge in particular.)

I hope you are correct and they do have voluminous evidence against anyone being prosecuted for crimes against A and L.

I have been underwhelmed by LE's handling of this case since the search was called off on the evening of 2/13. Again, I hope that for anyone charged with any part of A and L's demise, that LE has more than ample objective evidence to secure conviction(s). I hope LE is loaded for bear. In the case of RA, I have my doubts. Perhaps, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Grand juries are given one side of the evidence, so saying that is a higher bar doesn't make a lot of sense. We have no reason to believe that these particular judges just signed off on anything.

 

[Ontario Mom]

DELPHI, Ind. — Richard Allen's attorneys want their planned defense kept secret from everyone including the prosecutor in the Delphi murders case.

On Dec. 12, the special judge approved that request for private hearings.

In a filing to the court, Allen's attorneys asked for funding for the cost of experts. His attorneys point out that Allen does not have the money needed to help in his defense.

Allen's attorneys also asked for the judge to order court personnel and court reporters to keep any information in the court hearings confidential.

Judge approves Richard Allen's attorneys request for private hearings on money for experts in his defense

Allen's attorneys also asked for funding for the cost of experts to be used in his defense.

www.wthr.com

So... hmm. I wonder what's got them so concerned about top secrecy?

 

[Boxer]

Maybe not but it's just something I think any half decent defense attorney is going to bring up.

MOO Possibly a second person was around but it doesn’t affect RA being BG.

 

[Gemmie]

So... hmm. I wonder what's got them so concerned about top secrecy?

The first thing that came to my mind was to not make things easy for the prosecution. That's all I've got. Would like to hear what others think.

 

[TL4S]

So... hmm. I wonder what's got them so concerned about top secrecy?

Is this common? I haven't followed enough cases to know.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Is this common? I haven't followed enough cases to know.

It's not common in cases I've followed but I can't say how common it is generally speaking. Maybe one of our legal experts will weigh in on this development.

 

[taylorss]

<modsnip: unnecessary snark> they do not need to prove a single thing about the unspent cartridge. All the actions making up the crime RA is charged with (kidnapping / felony murder) occurred on the bridge & were captured on Libby’s video. The prosecution could literally not even mention the unspent cartridge.

The only aspect of the crime that needs to be proven but isnt on Libby’s video is that the girls’ deaths were by homicide. Nothing else needs to be shown about the murders - simply that they were murders (and not eg death by natural causes).

It’s a nice cherry on top maybe for the prosecution to use the unspent cartridge & further prove RA’s participation. But it’s not essential in any way.

Imo

Oh no, I didn’t mean my post to be snarky at all! I felt like I was being annoying by repeating myself over & over … so any snark was only aimed at myself… Sorry if I sounded snarky, everyone!

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

JMO, but the sketch must still have significance. It remains on the ISP and FBI Delphi tip sites.

Delphi Homicide Investigation

UNKNOWN SUSPECT | Federal Bureau of Investigation
------------------------------------------

I can only speculate on why the ISP is still choosing the YBG sketch over the OBG sketch (or over including both), when the OBG seems to represent RA better both in age and features. DC has said various forms of this following:

Doug Carter Radio Interview Transcript - Hammer & Nigel Show [Delphi murders, Richard Allen & Kegan Kline Discussion] - CrimeLights
HAMMER: What do you think the biggest mistake has been? Can you talk about that? Like, I know there’s the ongoing investigation, but a couple of times today you’ve said you know “we’re ‘gonna learn from this, we’ve made mistakes.” Give me an example.

NIGEL: Was the sketch? The two sketches?

DOUG CARTER: No, I don’t think that was a mistake at all. That was, frankly, a pretty effective strategy that kept information coming our way.

HAMMER: –‘Cause the second one looked nothing like this guy that’s into custody. The first one, you can put a side-by-side up with Richard Allen and you can say “I see that!” The second one looked nothing like that guy.

DOUG CARTER: Yeah. Isn’t that somethin’?

HAMMER: But was that the right thing to put that out? ‘Cause clearly it doesn’t look like him!

DOUG CARTER: Well, again, remember that a sketch is not a photograph. It’s a sketch based on human recollection. So, I was convinced that eventually we were going to put those together and we were going to be able to take them apart, and there is going to be the individual.*

[*Note: Supt. Carter is referring to a belief he shared multiple times in the past, that when the the killer was eventually caught, his appearance would favor a combination of both sketches merged together.]

So, you know, we’re human beings. We’re expected to be superhuman. We’re not. And, we do the best we can every single day, and that’s what we’ll continue to do.
----------------------------------------

We also have this:

Source: Investigators have known for years that the Delphi suspect was on the Monon High Bridge the day Abby and Libby were killed

Investigators believe Allen is the man on the bridge in the cellphone video and in sketches released by police, the source tells I-Team 8.

I personally think the person in the second sketch has a nose that looks a lot like RA’s. How pointed it is and the nostril placement.

moo