Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[Boxer]

Tool mark article. The extractor and ejector marks are tool marks.

Forensic Analysis and Interpretation of Tool Marks

The forensic analysis and interpretation of tool marks raise for consideration key methods and advances in the field of tool marks in forensic science. This chapter shows how tool mark analysis can be utilized in the course of criminal investigations. The focus of the chapter is on bringing...

www.intechopen.com

 

[Le Singe]

I’ve been saying that about the bullet since the day the pca was unsealed. I think it’s their throwaway - it’s fine to show what they discarded, because no one right now knows what cards they still hold. They got the pc for the arrest. and now there’s a gag order… just in time for discovery. (Because despite what ras attorneys said, I think they’d absolutely be trying this case in the media. The first thing they did after saying they don’t want to try this in the media was to release a ginormous press release that looks like carroll county high school made it…)

I firmly believe that the state is very well prepared and would not have arrested someone and brought charges without being able to back it up. They’ve been saying for years they only needed one piece - they got it.

To be fair the prosecution was already all over the media and was leaking tidbits to certain Media outlets. It's only fair that the defense was allowed to also do that.

 

[Le Singe]

I'm still very curious about what set the bar for the search of RA's house. Was enough said in the 2022 interview to make that happen? Was the bullet sufficient? We have a bullet, he owns the correct caliber (and maybe model) firearm, etc., plus admits to being there and wearing clothing matching BG. They HAD to have more than that right, some sort of strong belief they would find something in that house. And it seems like maybe they did. Beyond the "matching firearm."

One thing I've been confused about, I've read that he was interviewed on 10/13/2022 and I've also read the search being described as being on 10/13/2022 (i.e. the same day) so which came first? This opens up all kinds of questions and possibilities. Like did he actually give them permission to go in and look around? Did they then see things they knew they wanted to take so the got a warrant? There was reports of the cops going in, then waiting around for some time then searching more including yard and shed (per interviews on HLTV around the time of the arrest and press conference).

If the interview came first then i would guess they used that info, but if the search came first then there is a real question as to what they used to get the search warrant (of course there is the whole Judge Denier factor to consider).

 

[layer]

I'm still very curious about what set the bar for the search of RA's house. Was enough said in the 2022 interview to make that happen? Was the bullet sufficient? We have a bullet, he owns the correct caliber (and maybe model) firearm, etc., plus admits to being there and wearing clothing matching BG. They HAD to have more than that right, some sort of strong belief they would find something in that house. And it seems like maybe they did. Beyond the "matching firearm."

I think even if you throw out the bullet, there was easily enough in the PCA to grant a search warrant. Depends on the judge, I guess.

JMHO

 

[layer]

One thing I've been confused about, I've read that he was interviewed on 10/13/2022 and I've also read the search being described as being on 10/13/2022 (i.e. the same day) so which came first?

I'm thinking that the search came first, because didn't they ask him if he had ever loaned out the gun? Hmmm

 

[layer]

Tool mark article. The extractor and ejector marks are tool marks.

Tool mark rebuttal article.

Takeaways From a Refreshing Rejection of Junk Science

If you’ve ever watched a procedural crime drama or your local news, you’ve probably seen those little numbered tents marking the location of evidence at a crime scene. After a shooting, those evidence markers often note the location of bullet casings that were left behind. Many defendants...

www.kaiserdillon.com

 

[asyousay]

I don’t understand why some are stressing over bullet not being good enough evidence . It’s about the whole picture and he is up to his neck in trouble.

 

[Ghosthunter]

I don’t understand why the bullet is such a big deal. It’s about the whole picture and he is up to his neck in trouble.

Totally agree. Edited to remove duplicate

 

[layer]

I don’t understand why the bullet is such a big deal. It’s about the whole picture and he is up to his neck in trouble.

I think the bullet is significant. He owned a 40 caliber handgun at the time of the murders, a 40 caliber round was found at the crime scene. In conjunction with the word "gun" spoken by one of our girls, it strikes me as another valuable piece of the evidentiary pie.
JMHO

 

[TheVisual]

During the first days of interviews the still photo (released late on 2/15/17) was of BG being sought as a witness.

Ok, if BG photo was released on 2/15/17 then I wonder when RA talked to the conservation officer. Within a week? Within a month? Also when was the info released about the witnesses by LE? If RA mentioned (to the conservation officer) about the three girls he saw at the MHB then I presume it must have been after that info was released to the public. Anyone know? JMO

 

[M. Kay]

Without significantly more evidence, which LE may have, I fear what the trial may become.

Before and after the PC document was revealed, many here have reminded that only enough for legal purpose is disclosed now. There will always be evidence revealed in court before a Judge and Jury.

 

[Elley Mae]

One thing I've been confused about, I've read that he was interviewed on 10/13/2022 and I've also read the search being described as being on 10/13/2022 (i.e. the same day) so which came first? This opens up all kinds of questions and possibilities. Like did he actually give them permission to go in and look around? Did they then see things they knew they wanted to take so the got a warrant? There was reports of the cops going in, then waiting around for some time then searching more including yard and shed (per interviews on HLTV around the time of the arrest and press conference).

If the interview came first then i would guess they used that info, but if the search came first then there is a real question as to what they used to get the search warrant (of course there is the whole Judge Denier factor to consider).

DELPHI, Ind. — Authorities conducted an all-day search of the Delphi double murder suspect’s property around 10 days before his arrest, sources told The Post.

Non-uniform officers searched Richard Allen’s home, which he shared with wife Kathy, and their property for about 12 hours, according to neighbors.

Cops searched Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen’s home for 12 hours: neighbors

Non-uniform officers searched Richard Allen’s home, which he shared with wife Kathy, and their property for about 12 hours, according to neighbors.

nypost.com

…

10 days after search he’s arrested, maybe they did find something.

 

[M. Kay]

If I'm on that jury, you're dead.

This may be the first time in several years that I laughed here. Thank you, WildHuncher, you be the jury foreperson.

 

[ACG2x]

Another item here is if there are potentially "others involved" as the prosecutor said at the PCA hearing, can they get RA to squeal on whoever that is in exchange for not seeking the death penalty? Or perhaps giving him a sentence of life with parole in 30 years?

As much as I want to see him rot in a cell forever - or the more permanent needle-based method of justice Indiana has - if there are others involved here and getting him to plead guilty to something like that might satisfy two ends. First, it would nearly guarantee anyone else involved would be brought to justice and if this was part of some pedo ring, etc. it could break that up entirely. Second, it saves A&L's families from a long trial and ensures that the man who took their children won't see daylight for a long time.

 

[ACG2x]

This may be the first time in several years that I laughed here. Thank you, WildHuncher, you be the jury foreperson.

"Your Honor, we the jury recommend the sentence of death"
"But this isn't a death penalty case"
"I know - I stand by my statement"

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

DELPHI, Ind. — Authorities conducted an all-day search of the Delphi double murder suspect’s property around 10 days before his arrest, sources told The Post.

Non-uniform officers searched Richard Allen’s home, which he shared with wife Kathy, and their property for about 12 hours, according to neighbors.

Cops searched Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen’s home for 12 hours: neighbors

Non-uniform officers searched Richard Allen’s home, which he shared with wife Kathy, and their property for about 12 hours, according to neighbors.

nypost.com

…

10 days after search he’s arrested, maybe they did find something.

Do you think RA was worried during that time? Or perhaps he had the Ted Bundy type of arrogance and thought he was going to get away with the murders, that he could talk his way out, charm them, etc..?
Because IMO it can’t be both.

And I think a lot of us want to believe that he was crapping his pants because that makes us feel better. We want him to feel what the girls felt, fear. JMO.

mOO ymmv

 

[Elley Mae]

That same day, on Oct. 13, 2022, investigators executed a search warrant at Allen's Delphi home. According to court documents, they seized, among other things, jackets, boots, knives and firearms, including a .40 caliber Sig Sauer pistol.

That latter item proved to be of crucial significance, according to court documents.

Investigators say the Indiana State Police Laboratory performed an analysis of the pistol.

"The Laboratory performed a physical examination and classification of the firearm, function test, barrel and overall length measurement, test firing, ammunition component characterization, microscopic comparison, NIBIN," the affidavit states. "The Laboratory determined the unspent round located within two feet of Victim 2's body had been cycled through Richard M. Allen's Sig Sauer Model P226."

In short, the lab found that the round had been inside Allen's gun.

Newly released court documents tie Richard Allen's handgun to Delphi murder scene

That information was unveiled in redacted court documents released Tuesday afternoon that shed significant new details on the case.

www.wdrb.com

National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN)

National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN) | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Crimes are solved by law enforcement following up on intelligence information from ballistic imaging technology. Since the 1990s, ATF has worked with our law enforcement partners to place the capabilities of the NIBIN Network where it can help incarcerate armed violent offenders plaguing our...

www.atf.gov

 

[Ghosthunter]

Do you think RA was worried during that time? Or perhaps he had the Ted Bundy type of arrogance and thought he was going to get away with the murders, that he could talk his way out, charm them, etc..?
Because IMO it can’t be both.

And I think a lot of us want to believe that he was crapping his pants because that makes us feel better. We want him to feel what the girls felt, fear. JMO.

mOO ymmv

I think he was arrogant and thought he would get away with it. Just the way he carried out the crime reminds me of some of Bundys crimes. In broad daylight. With potential witnesses around. IMO he thinks he can talk his way out of it. Bundy even defended himself once. All of this is IMO. He does not remind me of BTK.. He will deny, deny, deny. IMO..

 

[Ghosthunter]

That same day, on Oct. 13, 2022, investigators executed a search warrant at Allen's Delphi home. According to court documents, they seized, among other things, jackets, boots, knives and firearms, including a .40 caliber Sig Sauer pistol.

That latter item proved to be of crucial significance, according to court documents.

Investigators say the Indiana State Police Laboratory performed an analysis of the pistol.

"The Laboratory performed a physical examination and classification of the firearm, function test, barrel and overall length measurement, test firing, ammunition component characterization, microscopic comparison, NIBIN," the affidavit states. "The Laboratory determined the unspent round located within two feet of Victim 2's body had been cycled through Richard M. Allen's Sig Sauer Model P226."

In short, the lab found that the round had been inside Allen's gun.

Newly released court documents tie Richard Allen's handgun to Delphi murder scene

That information was unveiled in redacted court documents released Tuesday afternoon that shed significant new details on the case.

www.wdrb.com

National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN)

National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN) | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Crimes are solved by law enforcement following up on intelligence information from ballistic imaging technology. Since the 1990s, ATF has worked with our law enforcement partners to place the capabilities of the NIBIN Network where it can help incarcerate armed violent offenders plaguing our...

www.atf.gov

if one of the knives they seized was used in the crime it will light up when they use liminol on it even if he cleaned it and DNA testing will determine the blood that is on the knife. The vehicle will also be subjected to liminol testing and the most miniscule amount of blood will light up like the 4th of July

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do you think RA was worried during that time? Or perhaps he had the Ted Bundy type of arrogance and thought he was going to get away with the murders, that he could talk his way out, charm them, etc..?
Because IMO it can’t be both.

And I think a lot of us want to believe that he was crapping his pants because that makes us feel better. We want him to feel what the girls felt, fear. JMO.

mOO ymmv

I believe at the very moment that photo of BG was released he was freaked out because he had no idea Libby had filmed him. I mean, he knows it's him and he's got to be worried about his friends and family 'knowing it' too.

Then again after the audio "Down the hill", I'm sure he was freaked again. He knows it's his voice, same thing with family and friends picking up on it.

But time marched on and nobody connected the dots, and I think his worrying days were well over after the initial couple of months. He was comfortable enough to talk about it down at the bar and pose in front of the BG Wanted Poster. That is very scary to me.

MOO