Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[JosieMae]

I don’t understand why some are stressing over bullet not being good enough evidence . It’s about the whole picture and he is up to his neck in trouble.

Agree. I also believe that the PC is the tip of the iceberg. MOO.

 

[layer]

if one of the knives they seized was used in the crime it will light up when they use liminol on it even if he cleaned it and DNA testing will determine the blood that is on the knife. The vehicle will also be subjected to liminol testing and the most miniscule amount of blood will light up like the 4th of July

Seems unlikely to me that there would be any blood found on a knife after almost 6 years. It doesn't take a criminal mastermind to soak your murder weapon in bleach. We don't even know that they were killed with a knife, do we? If they were strangled there should be touch DNA if he wasn't wearing gloves. The car would be more fertile ground. You can't submerge a car in bleach.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

if one of the knives they seized was used in the crime it will light up when they use liminol on it even if he cleaned it and DNA testing will determine the blood that is on the knife. The vehicle will also be subjected to liminol testing and the most miniscule amount of blood will light up like the 4th of July

BBM
And thank God for that awesome technology!

mOO JMVHO ymmv

 

[cbeagle]

The prosecution does say that BG (i.e RA) abducted the girls and did the murders

I don't think they (the prosecution) states RA did the murders.

The PCA is careful on the wording, and the fact on how he is charged:

"forced down the hill by RA and led to the location where they were murdered"

"he (RA) was in the woods with Victim 1 and Victim 2"

"after the victims were murdered, Richard Allen returned to his vehicle"

and the prosecution statement has:

"we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby"

So, I don't see anything where the prosecution states RA actually murdered the poor girls.

 

[mlgdvm94]

In the Murder Sheet podcast "A conversation with Brett and Alice", starting at minute mark 38:20, Alice says "we know things...we know something about RA and KK. They were "over 18" men who showed a preference for underage girls." Has this "preference" of RA's been established and I missed it? Speculation on the host's part? They did not elaborate and I have not seen this information anywhere else.


EDM to include RA's when describing the preference, as opposed to KK's, who's has been documented.

 

[MistyWaters]

Ok, if BG photo was released on 2/15/17 then I wonder when RA talked to the conservation officer. Within a week? Within a month? Also when was the info released about the witnesses by LE? If RA mentioned (to the conservation officer) about the three girls he saw at the MHB then I presume it must have been after that info was released to the public. Anyone know? JMO

The missing persons report was covered by the media the evening of the 13th.

MISSING: Two 13-year-old Carroll Co. girls

Two 13-year-old Carroll County girls are missing after they were dropped off to go hiking Monday afternoon.

www.wrtv.com

If this is accurate, RA didn’t speak with the conservation office until the next day, Feb 14th, “right after” the bodies were found but I haven’t noticed LE nor RA’s defense team to be quoted anywhere as the official source of this information.

The first paragraph is worded in such a way it could be misconstrued RA was in the area on Feb 14th but it clearly was the day “he admitted to investigators” given the timeline as we know it.

BBM

“According to i-Team 8, Allen admitted to investigators that he was “in the area” of the Monon High Bridge on February 14, 2017, the day that Libby and Abby were found dead. The girls had an outing on the bridge the day prior but never returned home. Police found their bodies the following day.

Allen reportedly told a conservation officer right after the bodies were found about his whereabouts. Yet, investigators reportedly “forgot about the statement,” i-Team 8 reports, until this year, when they arrested Allen and charged him with murder.”

Richard Allen: Accused Delphi Killer Was Near Bridge the Day 2 Girls Died, and Police Knew About it for Years [Report]

Accused Delphi killer Richard Allen allegedly admitted he was near the area the same day Libby German, 13, and Abby Williams, 14, died in Delphi, Indiana, in a brutal double-murder that went unsolved for over five years. According to i-Team 8, Allen admitted to investigators that he was “in the...

www.crimeonline.com

 

[Yvettea]

RA still has something with A&L’s DNA in his possession, IMO. He likely kept the weapon used to kill them for sentimental reasons. Currently LE has a compelling case against him if he is guilty, as it seems to me he is. The details of the investigation and weaknesses in it, if any, interests me but does not lead me to believe that LE has arrived at the wrong suspect. The defense of RA is now of paramount importance in order to insure a fair trial. After he’s found guilty which I believe he will be the interest in RA and the details of this case will wane for the public. LE and the families will be left to sort through the process and determine what if any deficiencies exist. Continue to seek justice for the families as we have from the very first day.

 

[Justice101]

I don't think they (the prosecution) states RA did the murders.

The PCA is careful on the wording, and the fact on how he is charged:

"forced down the hill by RA and led to the location where they were murdered"

"he (RA) was in the woods with Victim 1 and Victim 2"

"after the victims were murdered, Richard Allen returned to his vehicle"

and the prosecution statement has:

"we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby"

So, I don't see anything where the prosecution states RA actually murdered the poor girls.

In Indiana, I read they don't have to prove he physically killed them himself. He is guilty of murder if he participated or facilitated any part of it at all.

Why would they paint themselves into a corner at this early stage and assert something that may not be able to be proved and really doesn't matter much legally.

many times 2 people blame each other and there is no way prosecution can prove which one actually pulled the trigger, doesn't matter. Both guilty of murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think they (the prosecution) states RA did the murders.

The PCA is careful on the wording, and the fact on how he is charged:

"forced down the hill by RA and led to the location where they were murdered"

"he (RA) was in the woods with Victim 1 and Victim 2"

"after the victims were murdered, Richard Allen returned to his vehicle"

and the prosecution statement has:

"we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby"

So, I don't see anything where the prosecution states RA actually murdered the poor girls.

Yes, there’s no getting around it, that RA is charged with the murders (aka killing another human being) is clearly stated on each charging doc -

Probable cause court documents released in Delphi homicide case

Tuesday afternoon, the special judge in the double Delphi homicide case issued an order unsealing the probable cause affidavit.

www.wlfi.com

 

[LeBlack]

What other evidence can you get from an unspent bullet (let's assume it wasn't ever loaded)
1. Fingerprint/partial fingerprint
2. DNA
3. Rarity of caliber
4. Rarity of specific bullet brand/type
5. How long was the bullet where found? A day? a week? a month?
6 How many OTHER unspent bullets were found in the area?

MOO

 

[Ghosthunter]

Seems unlikely to me that there would be any blood found on a knife after almost 6 years. It doesn't take a criminal mastermind to soak your murder weapon in bleach. We don't even know that they were killed with a knife, do we? If they were strangled there should be touch DNA if he wasn't wearing gloves. The car would be more fertile ground. You can't submerge a car in bleach.

if he soaked the entire knife and didn't just wipe it down in bleach. Ever nook and cranny would need to be broken apart and soaked in bleach as knives have pits in the material and portions not reachable unless the knife is broken down. Did LE ask RAs wife if he had guns and knives? . I can't remember. A significant blood loss is assumed to be lost by the victims. Strangulation generally does not produce this is why I think it is assumed by many he used a knife. All IMO. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

Do you think RA was worried during that time? Or perhaps he had the Ted Bundy type of arrogance and thought he was going to get away with the murders, that he could talk his way out, charm them, etc..?
Because IMO it can’t be both.

And I think a lot of us want to believe that he was crapping his pants because that makes us feel better. We want him to feel what the girls felt, fear. JMO.

mOO ymmv

JMO.

Yes, I think RA was worried and surprised that LE came a’knockin on his door after so much time had elapsed. Whatever he felt, neighbors reported that he seemingly stuck to his regular routine.

Even Bundy was by most accounts fearful of being executed and tried to barter information and confessions to delay it.

That said, if RA is a true sociopath, his worry would be motivated entirely by self-interest.

RA’s ability to “blend in” and compartmentalize due to lack of empathy are likely serving him well in jail/prison. It’s simply a new environment for him to navigate.

I wondered at the time if Doug Carter’s remarks at the 2019 press conference about the killer “having a little bit of a conscience left” indicated that a behavioral profile (and/or indications at the murder scene) gave LE cause to believe that the murderer experienced some level of remorse.

JMO.

 

[layer]

What other evidence can you get from an unspent bullet (let's assume it wasn't ever loaded)
1. Fingerprint/partial fingerprint
2. DNA
3. Rarity of caliber
4. Rarity of specific bullet brand/type
5. How long was the bullet where found? A day? a week? a month?
6 How many OTHER unspent bullets were found in the area?

MOO

I'm wondering if the recovered cartridge was 40 caliber Sig Sauer. Anyone know?

 

[Le Singe]

In the Murder Sheet podcast "A conversation with Brett and Alice", starting at minute mark 38:20, Alice says "we know things...we know something about RA and KK. They were "over 18" men who showed a preference for underage girls." Has this "preference" of RA's been established and I missed it? Speculation on the host's part? They did not elaborate and I have not seen this information anywhere else.


EDM to include RA's when describing the preference, as opposed to KK's, who's has been document

He's accused of kidnapping and murdering two tweenage girls. Alice, and i would assume to almost all of us that follow true crime much, understand that these crimes are sexually motivated, the limited evidence we have backs that up (clothes from 2 victims in the river not of their bodies etc).

 

[iamnotagolem]

Catching up, here are my thoughts....

I think LE called RA in October and asked him some follow up questions based on the newly discovered old information that was "misplaced". in the course of the conversation they realized that this was their guy. They then asked for a search warrant, then questioned him again as a suspect. JMO

Completely different subject, but I really wonder if Abby and/or Libby went to CVS often, if they went there earlier that day, if they were there in any of the days leading up to their murder. I wonder if RA ever heard them discussing their plans of going to the bridge either that time or on any of their previous visits.

I wonder if RA knew school was out that day. What time does school usually get out? What time did he usually visit the trails? Where did he usually park? How did he usually park?

 

[layer]

He's accused of kidnapping and murdering two tweenage girls. Alice, and i would assume to almost all of us that follow true crime much, understand that these crimes are sexually motivated, the limited evidence we have backs that up (clothes from 2 victims in the river not of their bodies etc).

I don't think that's it. They aren't even talking like they "know" RA is guilty of the murders. But it sure sounds to me like they know RA is a pedo.

Good find @mlgdvm94!

 

[Le Singe]

I don't think that's it. They aren't even talking like they "know" RA is guilty of the murders. But it sure sounds to me like they know RA is a pedo.

Good find @mlgdvm94!

i disagree, it's Alice from "The Prosecutors" that says that Alice and Brett have never claimed to have any inside information on the case other than what MS has told them and Kevin from MS later in the episode said their sources really think KK and RA might be linked or others might be involve, but as of yet they have found no evidence of it. LE could have evidence RA is a pedo (i certainly suspect he is) but Alice would not be privy to that (nor does she claim she is). I listen to everything "The Prosecutors" do (great podcast btw) and its clear to me JMO IMO what she is saying.

 

[taylorss]

Thinking of should LE have had witnesses do a lineup …. could they even do a lineup for a local perp in such a small community? “Hmm I’m not sure, I think it was either the guy on the far left or the guy from CVS”
JMO

 

[EOA]

I thought he asserted that he never crossed the bridge?

RA stated he went onto bridge as far as Platform #1. While I've never been to Delphi, it is my impression from maps and photos that the CS (depending on how steep or rugged an embankment one is willing to traverse) could be accessed from either side of the MHB and it wouldn't be necessary to cross the bridge to get to the CS - although the CS was a fair bit closer below to the South End than it was the North End. Thus without crossing the entire bridge RA/BG could've departed the bridge from Platform #1 and still journeyed down to the CS.

 

[Yvettea]

In the Murder Sheet podcast "A conversation with Brett and Alice", starting at minute mark 38:20, Alice says "we know things...we know something about RA and KK. They were "over 18" men who showed a preference for underage girls." Has this "preference" of RA's been established and I missed it? Speculation on the host's part? They did not elaborate and I have not seen this information anywhere else.


EDM to include RA's when describing the preference, as opposed to KK's, who's has been documented.

I’m listening to this and surprised by this remark but I’ve never listened to Brett and Alice before. Just wondering if they have mentioned this in the past on their podcast?