IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[MistyWaters]

Regarding your first thought = do you think they could have gotten all of that done in a half hour?

I, too, think they gave LE permission to search without a warrant. I know we don't have good sources for what the neighbors said they saw but it's still hard for me to completely discredit their observations.

I’d be inclined to moreso believing a comment from neighbours if it was published by a local reporter lurking around Delphi, inquiring with the neighbours.

NY Post, not so much.

Cops searched Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen’s home for 12 hours: neighbors

Non-uniform officers searched Richard Allen’s home, which he shared with wife Kathy, and their property for about 12 hours, according to neighbors.

nypost.com

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Yeah, I doubt he was too worried about sitting 6" from that full, reddish brown haired, clean shaven, YBG sketch. Sitting there with his short gray hair, facial hair, and 20+ years older...

No kidding. It's hard to believe that sketch in retrospect, isn't it? Geesus

 

[CrimeDawg123]

No, I don’t think they got it all done in thirty minutes either. It was just thought.
More likely RA gave permission.
But really, not showing up with the search warrant in hand…sigh…so par for the course in this case.

Benny Hill theme running through my head

 

[FrostedGlass]

I’d be inclined to moreso believing a comment from neighbours if it was published by a local reporter lurking around Delphi, inquiring with the neighbours.

NY Post, not so much.

Cops searched Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen’s home for 12 hours: neighbors

Non-uniform officers searched Richard Allen’s home, which he shared with wife Kathy, and their property for about 12 hours, according to neighbors.

nypost.com

Of course not.

Somewhere there is an interview with Barbara McDonald that NYP likely pulled info from. I don't have a link to it atm so just consider MOO regarding what the neighbors said.

 

[photographer4]

This was a very interesting observation by one of the MS readers: Judge Diener signed the search warrant at 6:37pm; however McLeland stated the investigators arrived at 5pm and finished their search at 7:09 pm.

How did they search without a warrant? MS said they didn't know at all but they would look into it. This is one of the documents that was NOT filed. I'm wondering if this is what's been bothering Rozzi.

23mm

The Delphi Murders: Questions About the Delphi Documents

Last week, in response to a motion filed by The Murder Sheet, Judge Fran Gull released over 100 previously sealed documents relating to the case against Richard Allen. In this episode, we try to answer some of the questions we've gotten from listeners about the contents of those files — and what...

art19.com

Maybe they got permission to search and then RA or KA advised them to stop and get a warrant?

 

[Sjöberg]

When DG called L at 3:11, for the first time, that was 46 minutes before the "muddy and bloody" guy was seen on 300 (an hour after the kidnapping began). L's phone could have been on silent, I know, but the plan was for DG to call when he got there, so it's very possible her phone wasn't on silent, IMO.

I think a lot of people under the age of ~35 keep their phone on silent (at least for phone calls) all of the time. For one, they don't really do traditional phone calls (messaging apps and occasional video calls). For another, it is annoying to flip between silent and ringing if you need it on silent at school. So I can see it being either way, IMO.

I am not convinced SA was involved. Or that the “missing panties” were taken by RA. It could be as simple and one of the girls didn’t have clean panties and just went without. It’s not a big deal and wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what happened.

I am not sure if it is just me, but I would think it is extremely rare to not wear panties as a female.<modsnip>

I assume there was no sexual assault the way we know it, otherwise there would be some DNA left.

Evidence of the sexual component to these types of murders isn't always found on the victims. The evidence can be in other areas of the crime scene.

And a sexual crime does not have to include penetration with a penis. Especially, as there might be khmm <modsnip> problems involved.
Which also makes me really uncomfortable about some of the more random seized items.

Water bottle! I was picturing a bottle of Evian, but maybe it was a  reusable water bottle.

 

[photographer4]

Water bottle! I was picturing a bottle of Evian, but maybe it was a  reusable water bottle. A pink one or teenagery....maybe where it was found made it seem especially relevant. Souvenir-y. (Could belong to his wife or daughter, but again, where it was found might have made it sus.)

jmo

It was per the doc drop, an "aquafina" water bottle. So your basic aquafina that you buy at any shop or store... not a reusable one, not a girly one. Just a basic waterbottle.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Unlikely or he’d have taken it with him or disposed of it, no? I’d have loved to have seen his reaction upon seeing his own image walking across the bridge in tbe released footage from Libby’s phone!

If they call his wife or daughter to the stand, I actually hope they ask them what his reaction and or response was to this!!

But this begs the question, didn't his wife or daughter recognize him in the video footage?
ETA: Sorry, I'm still catching up......

 

[CrimeDawg123]

But this begs the question, didn't his wife or daughter recognize him in the video footage? And why didn't they turn him in?
ETA: Sorry, I'm still catching up......

Exactly what I have wondered since his arrest. It baffles me that he was not recognizable.

 

[twall]

The Grand Finale! Why are we seeing Judge Gull's orders with no signatures or dates or filing dates?

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

258 = Def Motion to Quash McL's Subpoena to Westville for RA's Medical Records (May 3, 2023)
260 = Def Motion to Quash McL's Subpoena to Westville for RA's all Other Communications (May 3, 2023)
262 = Def Motion to Quash McL's Subpoena Duces Tecum to CVS (May 3, 2023)
264 = State's Motion Requesting Protective Order Governing Discovery (Feb 13, 2023)
266 = Def Motion to Reconsider and Due Process Hearing (May 3 2023) ***
269 = Court's Temporary Restraining Order NOT Signed, Dated or Filed ***
270 = Black and White Pic of RA and Dog (Apr 5, 2023)
271 = Black and White Pic of RA in Prison Garb (Apr 5, 2023)
272 = Def Subpoena to IN DOC to Allow Attys Entry into Facility for Inspections (May 19, 2023)
273 = Def Request for Prodction to Non-Party #Relates to #272 (May 17, 2023)
275 = Def Subpoena to Robert Baston to Appear at June 15 Hearing (Jun 9, 2023)
276 = Certificate of Analysis: Item 122 which is 40 S&W Cartridge (Jun 13, 2023)
278 = Certificate of Analysis: More Gun Stuff (Jun 13, 2023)
281 = Def Notice of Discovery to Westville (May 19, 2023)
282 = Court Order for Release Mental Health Records to Def NOT Signed, Dated, Filed
283 = Gull Supplemental Order on Safekeeping NOT Signed, Dated or Filed

As to the unsigned orders- they are drafts that are submitted with the motion. JMO

 

[gizmobtj]

Maybe they got permission to search and then RA or KA advised them to stop and get a warrant?

Or they found something that caused them to want to get a warrant. Or it was a telephonic warrant and the judge signed the physical document later. So many options ...

 

[gizmobtj]

But this begs the question, didn't his wife or daughter recognize him in the video footage? And why didn't they turn him in?
ETA: Sorry, I'm still catching up......

Probably for the same reasons people don't turn their own people - disbelief or they just don't want to. I imagine myself in the same situation with a close family member and I can't imagine giving them up. There are just some things that run deeper than justice. I hate the thought

 

[photographer4]

But this begs the question, didn't his wife or daughter recognize him in the video footage? And why didn't they turn him in?
ETA: Sorry, I'm still catching up......

We don't know that they *didn't* turn him in actually. We assume that they didn't because it appears the wife is being as supportive of RA as she can be - but what exactly prompted LE to go back to the beginning, which is where someone discovered RA's statement to the CO in the first place? It is entirely possible that the daughter may have recognized him in the video more recently and realized it and put it together - called in an Anon tip to the police and said RA was there, he placed himself at the scene, in that outfit... and I believe it *could* be him (TO BE CLEAR: I am NOT saying this happened, I am only pointing out it COULD have happened). Police may not know who advised them to relook at the tip... but they sure got him quick once they did. What prompted the new look backwards??

 

[TwoLea]

I've been wondering for months why the FBI did not participate in the press conference to announce the arrest. Anyone know?

 

[FrostedGlass]

As to the unsigned orders- they are drafts that are submitted with the motion. JMO

I considered that but it made no sense to me that she would release a draft. So you think Rozzi drew this up for her? Is that typical?

What do you make of the documents that are signed and dated but not filed?

 

[twall]

I considered that but it made no sense to me that she would release a draft. So you think Rozzi drew this up for her? Is that typical?

What do you make of the documents that are signed and dated but not filed?

I think this case is a mess and Judge FG released every document that was not sealed.
Yes and yes.

My guess is we are seeing what is in the Allen Co. system. The filed documents are in the Carroll Co. system.

I am very disgusted in the state of Indiana. It isn't the first time but this case and the Natalia Grace Barnett travesty puts the cherry on top! JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think this case is a mess and Judge FG released every document that was not sealed.
Yes and yes.

My guess is we are seeing what is in the Allen Co. system. The filed documents are in the Carroll Co. system.

I am very disgusted in the state of Indiana. It isn't the first time but this case and the Natalia Grace Barnett travesty puts the cherry on top! JMO

I totally agree with you.

 

[Gemmie]

Exactly what I have wondered since his arrest. It baffles me that he was not recognizable.

IMO I'm thinking they had to have recognized him. I'd put a huge sum of money on that and I don't place bets unless I'm pretty darn sure I'll win. I'm thinking they had to be in denial that it COULDN'T be him. It's understandable because family never wants to believe a loved one could ever commit such atrocious murders. So it HAS TO be someone else that looks "sorta" like him.

 

[Boxer]

This was a very interesting observation by one of the MS readers: Judge Diener signed the search warrant at 6:37pm; however McLeland stated the investigators arrived at 5pm and finished their search at 7:09 pm.

How did they search without a warrant? MS said they didn't know at all but they would look into it. This is one of the documents that was NOT filed. I'm wondering if this is what's been bothering Rozzi.

23mm

The Delphi Murders: Questions About the Delphi Documents

Last week, in response to a motion filed by The Murder Sheet, Judge Fran Gull released over 100 previously sealed documents relating to the case against Richard Allen. In this episode, we try to answer some of the questions we've gotten from listeners about the contents of those files — and what...

art19.com

Police will often wait at a location till the SW is signed.

 

[LadyL]

I'm just now getting caught up after the latest news and freaking out about some of the details that to me, squash any doubt I had about this suspect being responsible. Mostly I just didn't think he looked like the picture on the bridge. I wasn't optimistic that we would ever witness justice for Abby and Libby. But now ... all the latest details leave no doubt in my mind.

Justice for our girls!